Mumsnet Talk

maybe. i can understand feeling frustrated after 6 months of someone on your sofa with no mention of why they're there (although it's not a big leap to realise she had nowhere else) or when they're leaving. and i can understand him asking her about it. but to say that she knew she could stay as long as she wanted is a lie if you do in fact feel frustrated and want a date named for her leaving.

Mind games maybe..pressuring her to get in his bed?

did he know where she went when she left though? if she was in a safe house and then on again to other places he may not have been able to get in touch. although it didn't say that he had tried.

She left whenhe was at work one day.

The order of evebts seemed confusing to me.. Did you feel confused too?

actually, he did say a payslip arrived for her cleaning job. i wonder if he contacted her to let her know, or even her employer to notify them that she didn't live there anymore.

i definitely felt there was alot that wasn't being said or was deliberately left out of the film.

the interpretation of how she was in the flat on her own, singing, wrapping presents etc seemed to imply that it was known there was something not quite right with her. as if the death was imminent? but no-one can now surely?

know

Yes I felt the same

It felt mixed up.

Who was this Polish guy???

Msybe he threatened her.life and she withdrew?

yes, definitely something to do with him. did it say that the police were called over DV and something to do with money matters? or was that a different boyfriend?

Yeah DV over Polush guy, money matters too.

Wonder if he was quedtioned

Cannot stop wondering why she didn't cal the samarirans and the refuge peopke did not visit..

How many others are dead on their sidas

*sofas

yes i was wondering that too as i was watching the film. i wondered if there was anyone watching it who was in a similar situation and could recognise that. or if there were others that it was too late for that nobody had found yet. i'll bet there are

Yes

I think there should be a therapist or lessons in each school at an early age set up to deal with emotional abuse.

i agree. schools need a massive overhaul IMO. there isn't enough focus at all on relationships (with everyone, not jsut romantic partners) or abuse or where to get help. i understand that it all costs money to do but emotional well being/awareness, relationship skills etc are all such a massive part of life from birth til death and unhealthy relationships cause so much damage to individuals and society even from an early age that it is worth investing in IMO.

Such an important part of life. People need to kearn about their emotions and how to manage them etc

Joyce losing her Motner was a massive thing. She seemed as if she was close with her.

very close, and i think it was handled badly by her father. well i dont think. i know it was.

I think he was abusive to her. Maybe ignoring her.upset.

Booyhoo, you're right, marriage and children would have helped her, they would have had a stabilising influence. I am glad to read that they have been your saviour and you have escaped from your old life. Perhaps Joyce feared not being a good mother, of not having the discipline involved to do it, many friends had said that she was very messy, was her mind too haphazard to order her thoughts and she feared what would happen if she was not there for them?

I wonder if, in her mind, however she would have seen that as a sort of prison sentence, towing the line, an end to the dreams she held. She had acquired a sort of notoriety of being the different, exotic one who was always stylishly dressed and admired by men (a sort of high in itself) and that would end, to some extent without enough money to fund a lifestyle where she would have enough time for herself and her ideal of pursuing her dreams. Men would no longer circle her if she was attached and with children, her currency/demand would decline and she would feel stuck.

It might have also been that she felt financial pressure to never be dependent on a man and yet also wanted to a SAHM if she were to have children and never the twain would meet? If she had seen her father playing away from home and a stressed/depressed mother, she may have had an acute fear of being in a situation where they were strapped for money but with the feeling of having been destined for better things. Friends had said that she had had a good upbringing and it was felt that her mother's family had been of high standing in her country of origin. Had her sisters married very well and she felt shame that her life wasn't the same?

nightingales i agree with all you have said.

something that may or may not be relevant to joyce's story but i'll share anyway. i personally have a huge internal struggle with not being perfect. so much so that if i think i cant do something 'perfectly' i wont do it at all. this comes right down to small things like i wont run a cloth round the bathroom to give it a quick clean, i have to do the whole lot and if i know i wont/cant do the whole lot i will leave it all until i can even to the point where it has gotten quite bad (same for the rest of the house). i have worked really hard and am making myself do just little bits at a time to prove to myself that doing enough is acceptable however i haven't yet been able to extend this to my life outside of the house and as a result my working life as come to a halt over the past 3 years for fear that whatever i do, it wont be perfect, i wont be the best at it and that people will know that i am not. i cannot begin to tell you how petrifying that fear of failure is and it has affected so much of my recent adult life that to an outsider or even to my family, i am stagnating, withdrawing etc. in my head though i know where i want to be and what i need to do to get there, i'm just struggling to make the leaps that i need to. i feel that there is an audience waiting for me to jump and fall and that is where the feelings of wanting to go far away and disappear come from. at times i feel i would love to go off with my children and live somewhere away from civilisation and just have no pressures to achieve or to plan or go anywhere in life. obviously i wouldn't do that, i dont think those around me would ever let me be alone- which is good as i dont think it would be good for me or my dcs.

i recognised alot of myself in last night's film and can understand very much joyce's need to be away from the (self created? or maybe she never wanted the attention at all) spotlight.

just to add- i know that my fears come from my upbringing and particularly my father's attitude to achievements.

I get all ypi say. I am very scatrd of failure now. I cannot.move on anymore thank god I have my DS. He saved me.

Booyhoo, the very fact that you are overcoming it is an achievement. What you say is very interesting. The formative years are at the root of so many adult issues. Did your father feel as though he hadn't achieved enough and projected onto you?

Sometimes if I see a messy room, I think that I cannot stand it as it is and yet I cannot stand the tedium of cleaning it! The only way I can get through it is by writing a list and breaking it down into smaller parts to gain some sense of achievement of ticking it off a list. Another one is saying rational people put the dishwasher on everyday, clean the kitchen surfaces etc. and that ensures that it gets done everyday. Everyone needs to motivate themselves to some extent. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly I can tidy up if a friend lets me know that they are dropping by! In the bathroom, rather than letting things build up, I will clean 3 tiles everytime I visit the bathroom and the cumulative effect of this habit gets things done without it becoming too big a deal where I feel like I am sacrificing my time. Little and often is the way too go.

Oh jeez my.house is a fuckin state

I just cannot bring mysrlf to touch it

I am sure that you are both very good mothers, you both have a high level of sensitivity and empathy and that makes children feel very cared for and cherished.

i think his attitude is a direct result of his upbringing. he was never good enough for his father. if he got 99% he would have to explain the lost 1%. he was also the middle of 9 children and belittling each other was sport for them.

he did the same with us as children and even now as an adult i try not to tell him if i am attempting something or even if i suceed. he looks for any negative. it's quite soul destroying tbh as i would love him to just say "well done" even if he doesn't think it's any great acheivement.

yes i am managing now to keep on top of dishes and washing and the bathroom most days. i have agreed with myself an acceptable level to do each day and i'm even starting to stop beating myself up if i dont manage it all everyday. it has been a slow process but i can see how far i have come since the worst days.