Self harming DD - how to help? (Long, sorry)

[AlternaTeen]

DD has been SH for about 3 years. She's 13, nearly 14. We don't know why - she goes from being bright and breezy to typical teen moodiness, nothing major and very soon perks up again, but displays no other worrying behaviour. Certainly doesn't present as being deeply troubled - but I guess she is.

She's seen CAMHS who said nothing to worry about and discharged her. She has spent 3 years in counselling but nothing has 'fixed' her. Her counsellor said she considered her last episode (a couple of months ago) a wake up call for her, and that she had turned a corner and would be unlikely to cut again. She cut last night.

She tells different people different reasons for doing it, saying last night's was because she's addicted. It seems she is bright enough to tell everyone what they want to hear. When she see's a doctor,she turns it right up, mentioning panic attacks, voices, anorexia, wanting to harm people etc. Without wishing to sound harsh and heartless, and the fact she has mentioned none of these to me (we have a great and open relationship, and she's most definitely not got any eating disorder, for example) I'm inclined to think she is pushing for yet more input from a mental health point of view. To what conclusion, I cannot tell. It all seems very complicated in teen land.

She has even mentioned wanting to go into a hospital. She seems to think this might be glamorous and give her a different and 'dangerous' reputation. She learns about symptoms and presents them to the doctor.

We've now moved to a different country, and after last night's event I've got to start searching for help for her yet again.

DH isn't particularly helpful, and thinks she's just doing it for attention seeking. He also objects strongly to having to pay out for yet more counselling. I can't earn here, so we are reliant on his salary for everything.

What steps should I take now? DD's current 'thing' is that she wants "medication for her anxiety". Is this possible at such a young age? Is it even a good idea? I was on Prozac when I had PND and hated it - did no good and was hell to come off. And if she is prescribed something, would it actually help someone who seems to cut quite randomly and for what appears to be no reason? I understand she will be anxious at starting a new school, but I'm finding it all very hard to get my head around. Is there such a thing as a proper 'happy pill' rather than SSRIs? I'll be taking her to the doctor this week and want to be up to speed on what's what.

I feel so out of my depth with all this and would be massively grateful for any advice on how to help my darling girl. We can't go on like this, the strain on all of us is awful.

[GnomeDePlume]

I dont know is the short answer but just wanted to say that you are not alone.

The internet is so powerful that I think that young people can access information and perhaps get a "script" (for want of a better word) for the feelings they have. This is not belittling those feelings. Perhaps your DD is trying to explain her feelings not just to you but also to herself.

[JustDanceAddict]

It's difficult. My DD has had thoughts of SH, but has never done it. She told me she had thoughts, she has general anxiety disorder as diagnosed by a counsellor. It is usually triggered by stress ie, too much schoolwork, life changes, etc. can you speak to gp for advice without her there?

[Gymbob]

my dd has been cutting for a couple of years. she wanted anti depressants, and she presented as depressed to the psychiatrist when she wasn't. she had been telling people that she was going to get them. it would be almost some kind of boost to her reputation if she got them. your dd sounds a little similar.

Try looking up the Butterfly Project on line, my dd found it helpful for a while. I also rang Young Minds and got a 50 minute appointment with a counsellor which I found very helpful.

Do you monitor or restrict her online activities? there are too many websites that actually encourage cutting rather than supporting. she needs to steer well clear of them. some self harmers actually post pictures of their self inflicted injuries

anyway hugs and good luck

[Bonsoir]

It sounds as if your DD is crying out for help in myriad ways. You mention moving country: have you moved a lot in your DD's life?

[Gymbob]

forgot to say, my dd told the psychiatrist she also suffered from anxiety, it was the first I'd heard, and she most certainly doesn't! she was offered Sertraline, which I understand can be damaging to the still developing adolescent brain. she is not on any medication.

[Bonsoir]

Even if the story that the teen presents to HCPs with is fabricated, there is still an underlying reason for the attention-seeking behaviour that needs investigating.

[AlternaTeen]

Thank you all. As I say, it's all very complicated and yet understandable.
Don't want to reveal too much as it would be extremely identifiable.

Gymbob yes! That all sounds very familiar. I think she is presenting a particular face/image to people to stop them either bullying or to keep them at arms length. Think goth style. Making herself look and behave as 'different' and 'dangerous' in a way. But then it all becomes self-perpetuating and she finds friendships tricky. Ugh, soooo complex! And hard to put into words.

She's been through a lot but 'enhances' the details to various people, ie friends get the shocker version (untrue) and HCPs get a moderated, but still mostly untrue one. I think she has a kind of stop valve which, thankfully,more vents her going too far. Because she would be found out, I think.

Online is a problem, and one we are working on. She doesn't post her own cuts, but very occasionally finds pictures of more disturbing ones to put out as her own. Her friends tell her off, and never encourage her.

I will see our doctors first and see what can be suggested.

Thank you again for being there, I don't have anyone to talk to about this.

[AlternaTeen]

exricheymanicfan Thank you! I'll re read later and absorb more, but I just wanted to acknowledge you time and insight.

You've helped me immensely - the "intrusiveness" aspect resonates strongly and sparked a lightbulb moment. Stuff that happened to me as a teen (I was a similar teen, probably similar to you rather than DD, but chose a more dangerous route of rebellion) and how DH, her dad, is with her now. Much pondering and reevaluating required.

Back later, too many people around ATM.

[slippersmum]

My dd is 13 and on medication. I was told that is the youngest age group that can take them and when I took the script to the pharmacist he called me over and asked lots of questions but think he was newly qualified. Saying he had never seen anyone that young prescribed them. They do not work at all and think the GP only gave them to us as she didn't know what else to do!

[Gymbob]

slipper I took my gp to the doc at 14, she was adamant she wanted anti d's. the doc said she was unable to prescribe to someone so young, and offered to refer us to CAMHS. yours and my story is contradictory, which gp was right?

[Gymbob]

meant, I took my dd to the doc

[AlternaTeen]

DD is hiding her arm today - it's obvious what she did last night
Am I supposed to say something to her? Her mood is good today and she's out walking a dog with her friend, so getting some much needed exercise and fresh air.
I'm finding it all very hard to process.

[itsonlysubterfuge]

I was a cutter as a teen. I started self harming at a young age, but didn't start cutting until I was a bit older 15/16?

It's becoming such a normal, regular thing for teens to cut. It's like a popular thing you do.

Not to sound horrible, but is the cutting actually serious? Are they significant cuts or just scratches? If they aren't severe could you try ignoring the behaviour, especially if you think she is doing it for attention, and actually give her attention, but not talking about the negative behaviour?

I personally started self harming because I felt I deserved to be punished. I've learned to stop myself from self harming and sometimes I slip up, but I've stopped cutting. The urge to cut is strong sometimes and I really miss being able to do it when I get the urge, that sounds bad, but is honestly how I feel.

I'm sorry I don't have more helpful advice.

[Gymbob]

it's, that's a really interesting adult perspective on cutting. I do struggle to understand it. When I was a teen in the 70's, I'm sure it was pretty much unheard of, unless someone can correct me.

OP, sorry your girl has had to do it again. I hope she's using something clean when she cuts and she's dressing it properly.

[AlternaTeen]

The cuts aren't deep. Not scratches, but not serious damage that needs stitching, thank goodness. I guess she's been doing it so long that she knows how to deal with the aftermath. I caught sight of her arm, well part of it, and couldn't see anything bright red, so either she's only done one or two (hidden under a casually draped shirt) Or they're healing ones from a few days ago.

DH found a packet of about 50 razors that she apparently bought (?!) before we moved. I know we aren't supposed to, but we threw them away. That caused a row. But also opened up a line of discussion with her. I cannot in all conscious allow her to keep them.

To those of you who used to cut - did you stop of your own accord? Or did anything help you? I think after three years of private counselling that hasn't worked, there is little point starting that up again. Besides, DD doesn't particularly want to go back over everything again. She finally wants to look forward, so we can help,her with that, I hope.

[itsonlysubterfuge]

The thing that helped me stop was growing up, I guess.

My relationship with DH was the major help. I think my parents, although they were wonderful, were a huge source of stress for me. I have anxiety and it was much worse when I was younger. The biggest source of my problems are my feelings of self worth which are extremely low, and one of the reason I would cut myself is to punish myself for being fat, stupid, giving in, etc.

It's really complicated, but basically I was going to college, and my parents were pressuring me into doing things I had A LOT of anxiety over. Things like driving, getting a job, using the phone, normal things that most people can do without a problem. I was already having insane amount of anxiety from joining college and being in a strange and different environment and with all the extra stuff my parents piled on top of me, I finally cracked and attempted suicide. I was also having problems with DH, who was my boyfriend, and we were in a long distance relationship.

Anyway, this all ended up with me moving to England (I'm American) for a few months with DH. It was more stressful and my cutting got worse at first, but then I started to get better.

Being away from all the stress and just being able to spend time with DH and being forced to be more independent (although I still had DH) helped me.

I suppose the answer to what helped me was, some of the reasons I wanted to cut got better or went away. DH has AS and has a hard time reading emotions and one of the things I did was bottle up how I felt about anything so being in a relationship with him forced me to learn how to talk about how I was feeling. DH also needed me a lot as well and I suppose I had more responsibility and sometimes I needed to be the strong one, which helped with my anxieties. Time was also a big factor.

Perhaps you could find something that your DD could be responsible for. Something she enjoys, not like a chore. Something that counts on her which can give her confidence and a feeling of self worth. If she doesn't find counselling helpful, then don't bother with it. Why not ask her what she thinks would help her and talk it through with her? Read stories of peoples experiences with cutting and how they got better and maybe share them with her and see if she thinks what they did might help her?

sorry for the long post, I hope it was at least a little helpful.

[AlternaTeen]

itsonlysubterfuge Thank you for sharing.

I'm actually finding this thread a total eye-opener into my OWN childhood! I too had extremely judgmental and pressurising parents and a total lack of privacy from everyone - grew up in a village where everyone had input and gossiped about everything. And made up crap if they ran out of actual news. Christ, just thinking back on it all I'm amazed I am still here. Thankful that SH wasn't so widely known back in the 70's as I may have 'gone there'. As it was, I went off the rails once I left home and tasted independence and freedom. like exricheymanicfan. Anyway, this is not about me (I hope!). DD has absolutely no idea on my life before and I'm damn sure she isn't subjected to any legacy.

She's now talking about "needing things perfect" - symmetrical, neat and so on. However, this is certainly not reflected in her day to day life. Her bathroom is beyond disgusting! May be something to keep an eye on though.

Interestingly, I caught sight of her 'cutting arm' first thing (she was half asleep when I went in) and there is no sign of recent cuts which is good, but she is now making a subtle show of hiding it again so it looks like she's trying to manipulate.

I need to think on responsibilities for her as she does respond favourably to independence. Not particularly easy in our current situation though. Hoping that when school starts in a couple of weeks she will settle into herself again.

[Gymbob]

giving responsibility sounds a good idea if she is receptive. maybe my DD would also benefit from that. but in her case, unless it will benefit her directly, she wouldn't be interested.

if you come up with something that might work, please share

[AlternaTeen]

Wracking my brains. Can't come up with anything! I can't even get her to empty the dishwasher. Will definitely share if there is a breakthrough. But don't hold your breath!

[GnomeDePlume]

I am not sure if the responsibility will necessarily help. My DD is very capable of compartmentalising. Very responsible in one area of life (eg homework, extra-curricular activities), disastrously irresponsible in others. One thing we are starting to do is drag the self-harming out into the light. The next time that DD starts hiding herself we are going to be having to say that we can see what she is doing.

However, I can understand if you dont want to do this. Until this week we had been on eggshells, terrified that if we said anything that DD would storm off out of the door and we wouldnt see her again.

[itsonlysubterfuge]

Try not to focus on chores that would help you and something instead that is for her that wouldn't be destructive. For example if she was interested in sports joining a team, so they count on her to be at practices and games. Maybe she is interested in baking and you could join her up to a cooking class? Something that would require her to make an effort, be relied on, but that was fun and engaging.

The point is to give her a new skill to add independence and sense of well being or to give her a chance to show how good she is at a skill to improve self confidence. Something that will give her a way to focus her energy so it's in a positive light. It's also good to have a distraction because if your DD is feeling depressed/anxious/whatever having time on her hands just lets her sit and think about all the bad stuff which then leads to the cutting.

Maybe even getting a pet, something that might require cleaning/grooming/feeding/walking, etc. Or maybe even volunteering at a charity of her choosing. This is a great website which lists places with volunteering in your local area, assuming you are in the UK.

[Alternateen]

Just wanted to update (offload). Lots of stuff has happened over the past few weeks.

After a particularly scary episode when she was hallucinating and hearing voices, but also recovered quickly, I went to my GP to ask what I should do and to find out which GP in that practise would be good for her. I came away with anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds for her. Quite a major difference in attitudes here! GP also made an emergency appointment for her to see a top psychiatrist here.

At that long appointment the psychiatrist diagnosed her with PTSD and major depressive disorder with psychotic features.

I feel so shit for not realising how bad It had all got for her. Mainly because she is so strong and good at doing what she thinks others want. It's all falling into place now. Hindsight is painful but clear.

Anyway, she was admitted into a psychiatric unit and seeing her psychiatrist every day and working with lots of other therapists. She's also had blood tests, MRIs and EEGs to rule out any physical issues. Still awaiting results. Psychiatrist has changed her meds from escitalopram (that the gp prescribed) to fluoxetine and she's getting the jitters and zaps.

Strangely (or not?) I have had no reports at all from the psychiatrist yet, so can only go by what she tells me. I'm only allowed to see her for an hour a day.

Thanks for listening. I've nobody else to talk about this with.

[Clara66]

I haven't really got anything to add, but just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you. Please look after yourself. My DD's problems are not quite the same, but I know how heartbreaking and painful this must be for you.

Keep talking and take care.