bedtime routine for teenagers!

[gardeningmama]

My 13 yr old ds has always been poor at settling at bedtime. He didn't sleep through for the first year and since has a history of finding excuses of coming back downstairs or making last minute and inappropriate demands (drink, food, change his story tape etc) All ruses to keep me or dh with him a bit longer.

His 9 yr old sister is taking her cue from him and I resent the disruption to my evening. It can be 9.30pm or later before I see the last of them and I have lost the will to live by then. (It was 11pm last night).

DS official lights out time is 8.45 in term time (he is hard to get out of bed in the mornings) and dd is 8pm.

Don't mind if they are awake and quietly reading/drawing whatever in their rooms and turn their own light off when ready (within reason) but I feel so claustraphobic with the incessant demands.

Any advise?

[mumeeee]

If he still wants to be down stairs with you at 13 I would make the most of it. Most teens spend nearly all thier time in thie rooms. I think 8.45 is actually a bit early for a 13 year old to have lights out. Is there anyway you can come to a comprimise. Say he goes up at 9 then trust him to turn his light out by 10.
Your DD is only 9 so just explain to her that DS goes up later as he is older.

[inthesticks]

I'm afraid it's inevitable that you lose that little child free spell in the evening when they have gone to bed.
I think 8.45 is reasonable on school nights for a 13 yaer old and 8pm is fine every night for a nine year old.
Bedtimes were a battle ground with DS1 and got worse when he was 13. The best move I ever made was to make an agreement with him that if he went willingly at 8.45 on school nights I would let him go to bed when he chose on weekends. It worked a treat, and in fact still does now he is 15.
He is seldom much later than 9pm on school nights but stays up til all hours on Friday and Saturday. He puts the lights out.
What I don't get is the demands? At 13 your DS should be able to get his own supper or whatever. Why is his presence such an irritation?
With a 9 year old I would insist they stay in bed.

[gardeningmama]

Thanks for this. To answer inthesticks, the irritation comes from the point you touched on - at 13 he is perfectly capable of seeing to his own needs so to have him asking me to get him a drink etc is cloying. I try to just ignore the requests but they come persistently. Hard to be totally objective but I suspect over the years I have not been consistent. Maybe he is just at a transition stage - he is perfectly capable of going into Hollister on his own and spending his money but then still wants the comfort of 'mummy' pandering to him when it suits ... (don't think I was ever particularly spoiling however). I like the idea of strict weekday bedtimes and much more relaxed at weekends, this could work.

I agree with mumeee though and do cherish the fact he still wants our company, just want him to grow up a bit!

[inthesticks]

Perhaps you could have a chat with him about being more self sufficient at home.
If you decided to change the bedtime rules you could incorporate it. Make out that 13 is an important stage in growing up and with some extra priviledges come some responsibilities. You could say that you love his company but sometimes he treats you like a servant and you would like some time to relax in the evening.
By the way I know how you feel about poor settling, mine were both terrible sleepers as babies and I don't think I had an uninterrupted night for about 10 years.

[GnomeDePlume]

Perhaps my DCs are nocturnal or something:

DD1 (15) goes to bed when she wants - she is responsible and knows that if she cant get up in the morning then that is her problem.

DS (12) bed at 9.45 during the week, later at weekends

DD2 (11) bed at 9.30 during the week, later at weekends

DCs are allowed to help themselves to drinks but not food.

[Stricnine]

I'm with GnomeDePlume (cool name!) my DD (14) more or less goes when she wants and understands if she's tired in the morning she gets no sympathy - on the whole she's pretty good and gets herself off to bed around 10 on school nights (later and often after me on weekends.. but usually before midnight!)...

they need to learn the responsibility of what they can handle themselves ... this (in my option) extends to most things in life: if cold - wear more but don't moan; if tired - sleep more, but don't moan; if thirsty/hungry - get drink/food, but again don't moan! (I really don't like moaning about things she can influence herself directly!!)... she's quite good at working it out -- eventually :)

[gardeningmama]

Thanks everyone! It seems I need to disengage more and let ds take the consequences of his behaviour - hard when a late night/ not enough sleep means he will oversleep and miss his school lift next morning but I guess if he does it once he won't do it again ...

I think some of the difficulties also come with having a different opinion to dh on how to deal with the dc's and rules. But that's another story.

[musicposy]

I'm pretty much like GnomeDePlume.

DD1 (14) goes to bed when she likes, and as long as she doesn't disturb me by clattering around at 2am, not my problem. She's the one who has to get up in the mornings after no sleep, not me.

DD2 (11) bed by 9pm. I'll usually let her read until 9.30, unless she seems very tired and tetchy.

If mine want a drink, they have to go and get it themselves. I don't allow eating, they've had dinner. I certainly wouldn't be changing a story tape, even for my 11 year old.

We definitely don't get the child free evenings we used to have - I think that's inevitable with teens - but at least I'm not running around after them.

[IdontknowwhyIcare]

Ds now 15, has always been a poor sleeper. When he was very young someone said to me set a routine. So we did, he was never to come downstairs after bath. As he has morphed into a teenager he lives in his pj's after he has his shower (and I cant blame him for that ;-)). However I digress, Ds goes upstairs at 9, as he gets up at 6. Lights are off by 10. What I do though is go up for a chat, he likes to have a cuddle and talk about his day or whats on his mind. Then he is settled. We call them DMC's - deep and meaningful conversations. It works for us, the calm the dark, relaxing.

[tegan]

dd1 is 12 (nearly 13) and pretty much goes to bed when she wants, but i have never known her stay up past 10pm in the week anyway. She is up at 6:30 in the week and if she is tired there is no sympathy as she should of gone to bed earlier

[DandyDan]

Like others here, we don't have a set bedtime for our teens. The youngest is usually in bed by 10.30, the older ones whenever they choose so long as they are not disruptive, turn off lights and get up at the right time in the morning. I don't think we've have "child-free time" in the evenings since they were a lot younger, but for us, this ia part of the deal with kids. They get their own drinks and snacks, and are quite happy to spend time with us as well as in their rooms or out.

[Stricnine]

I tend to find 'child free' time is now when the teens are upstairs doing their own thing .. homework/sufing/music whatever.. I don't expect them to be with me unless we're choosing to do the same activity, so it's not as structured child free as it was when they were younger, but I usually find I get sufficient peace to mumsnet/read a book myself :)

[compo]

Yes I agree that with teenagers me time in the evenings goes out the window

[Ooopsadaisy]

DS is 14 (year 10) - he pretty much dictates his own sleep now.

He is sometimes in his room on Ipod or sometimes downstairs watching TV with us.

We are big on cricket in this family and so he stayed up most of the night with us while the Ashes was on. We were all a bit knackered over the Ashes series but he was fine. We all muddled through!

DD is 11 - she is still lights off by 9.30 on school nights because she is still needing more sleep. Wanted to stay up for Ashes but admitted she was too tired.

I like DS's company in the evenings. Being able to watch programmes with rude words/adult subjects etc in with him is good to help his development. We have a laugh at Come Fly With Me and Lee Mack and stuff. He's nearly a man and I think it's important to help guide him into adulthood this way.

[Lovesdogsandcats]

Sounds to me like bed time anxiety, and the constant demands mean he is not alone?

[Lilith451]

My DS is 16 and largely nocturnal,never has been a morning person (oddly, even as a foetus he was the same). I long since gave up trying to get him in bed at a reasonable hour. As several people have said on here, if he's knackered next day it's his own fault.I find I have far greater worries these days, and need to pick my battles!

[schoolchauffeur]

Our DS (13) has a strictish routine Sunday night to Thursday night- homework/tea/shower/bit of TV, sometimes bit of console time, but all gadgets off by 9.00, upstairs by 9.30 and lights out by 10.00 ( can read between 9.30 and 10.00). But at weekends he can do more or less as he likes up to midnight. 9 times out of 10, unless he has a friend over when they might be watching films, he gives in and takes himself off to bed before 11, but at least he feels he has a choice! Agree with cat64 that it may be partly to do with wanting to be downstairs with you to spend time. Our DS ( massive xbox fan/rugby lad) is currently playing chess on the floor with his dad because he was down here raiding the biscuits when he saw his dad with the board set up and wanted to have a go- now on his 4th game!

[gardeningmama]

Interesting that this has made me reflect on the situation here - I thought I WAS giving my DS plenty of quality time, he and I have always had a good relationship and I have spent many, many hours talking through worries, issues or just chatting and sharing news. I guess my frustration has been that it never seems to be enough, he will always demand more, and where will it end??? I fully take on board the need to let go of the idea of a child free evening, we have moved his bedtime later and he shares tv/chat time with us even more now! Seems to work for us so far. I think now it is DH that needs convincing. He gets home really stressed and unhappy from work and finds it impossible to interact with the DC's, usually shutting himself in our bedroom "working" or surfing the internet for ages. Maybe DS is anxious about that and fears to leave us in the evening for fear of arguments and Dad's 'mood'? I always get the sense that DS is coming back downstairs just to check on us, and can't settle himself because of these worries he is taking onto his shoulders ....

These things are often more complicated than they first seem. Thanks for your comments.

[HeathcliffsGirl]

We have a routine - we have had since both kids were tiny - they have always had a bedtime and we have always selfishly stuck to it because we need out time. This has been explained to the kids and now (13 & 10) they respect that - just like they knock on doors if they are closed.

Bedtime is bedtime and that does not mean lights off for 13y/o - 10y/o has lights off at 9 - bedtime is 8 for the two of them.

Every night we go in have a cuddle, and a GOC (good old chinwag) and then its goodnight.

13y/o is still very cuddly and I cherish the moments - I don't know how long they will be available - but I'm not allowed to call him "Pickle" in public anymore!