Some moral support please

[theredhen]

DP and I are due to have our relate counselling session on Friday. We have had 1 meeting together and then each had a separate meeting with the counsellor where we put out points of view across.

This will be the first meeting where DP will really hear what is upsetting me. I tried a gentle discussion last weekend with him and every time I try and bring things up in a really non confrontational way, he tries to turn the conversation around to how he has to put up with things and things aren't easy for him. He is insinuating that my DS is badly behaved and that my ex causes us trouble. This is simply not the case. However, of course my DS isn't perfect and he has his faults. I am feeling increasingly insecure and find myself feeling that because DS isn't "perfect" my arguments about his children and their bad behaviour are going to be seen my the counsellor as "the same" as DP "issues" with DS. I think DP is going to say that he finds my DS difficult to deal with etc. to try and "even things out" and tip the scales more in his direction and less in mine.

I think he will try and say that my ex is awkward, but letting DS down for contact 24 hours before hand now and again is hardly the same as police, social services, court cases and constant nasty e-mails from his ex as well as her demands through the children for our time and money. And I ensure that the impact on DP of having DS for unexpected time is minimal anyway!

The counsellor suggested family counselling for DP and DS to improve DS and DP relationship and I've agreed in principle to this at a possible later date. DS doesn't have a good relationship with DP in that he has a bit of a "non" relationship with him but then DP has never done anything 1 to 1 with DS in 4 yrs and is quick to critisise but not to praise. He never sees the positives in DS despite me often talking of the positives in his children (sometimes it's a struggle but I do!). DSC can't be involved in any counselling because of the reaction of their Mum.

I am worried that the counsellor will then just think that our problems are "equal" and that I should be making as many compromises as DP should whereas the reality is that I am making all of the compromises in our house and DP makes virtually none. I pretty much think that DP is going to elaborate on the truth and make DS out to be as badly behaved as his children when this isn't the case but the counsellor simply won't know that will he?

I'm also nervous because our counsellor has left relate and we have been assigned a new one who neither of us has met and the fact that this one is a man is leaving me feeling a bit uneasy.

I was feeling confident about "my case" and had things clear in my mind but now I feel uneasy. I think I am also feeling terribly guilty because I have actually decided I don't want to be around DSD1 at all and actively avoid her as she is so rude and condescending to me. I know if she had some consequences for her actions, she might be nicer to be around so I do know that DP takes most of the blame, however, I can't help feeling guilty for not wanting to have the girl anywhere near me. I am polite but simply have no desire to be around her, I am battered down from her critisism and rudeness. I would never try and stop her coming to our home but I just choose to spend my time in a different room or go out.

I know it's not about "winning" and I also know if DP lies and/or exaggerates the truth, then I have my answer about our relationship. So why am I feeling so insecure and nervous?

[brdgrl]

I think I understand.

I'd encourage you to say exactly this at the counselling sesssion. If it starts to go the way you think it will - you need to articulate these concerns. Come right out and say that you are sensing that DH is trying to minimize the issues around his kids while exaggerating those with DS in an attempt to 'even things out'. The counsellor doesn't know if you don't tell him. And it might be tough, but it might also be very necessary to get a true picture of how things are - both for the counsellor, and even for your DH who frankly needs a good (metaphorical) slap upside the head.

In our case, the counselling was initially quite helpful, but over time, I felt that the 'truth' was being pushed to one side. What I feel started to happen was that DH minimised the DSC's behaviour as "normal teenage stuff" and the relate counsellor went along with that too readily. Like we were having issues with DSS and his time on the xbox...ok, every teenager's parent complains that their teen spends too much time on xbox - and that is what the counsellor said about her own son...but i was like "hold up! not every teenager is on the xbox for litrally actually 6 hours a day, surely, which is what DSS was clocking at the time, and not every teenager is allowed to shout and about being asked to stop without having ANY consequence, and surely when other teens do "normal teenage stuff" they get called up on it so NO THIS IS NOT NORMAL behaviour by them or by DH!"

(I hope that the counsellor is a good fit for you - I will say that the male counsellour I saw on my own recently was great when it came to talking about DH and the DSCs - he saw what I was talking about straight away. As it happens, he was in a stepfamily himself - had remarried and so his DD had a stepmum although he had no stepkids. The relate counsellour DH and I saw had teenage children of her own, but was not in a step-family - I'm not saying that only a counsellour in a step-situation can help, but I did think it made some difference!)

[Kaluki]

Redhen - you are with my DP aren't you?!!! They are like peas in a pod!
Stand your ground with the counsellor. If DP minimises the DSCs behaviour then pull him up on it and give examples.
Regarding your last sentence - that is why you are anxious. You know that if this doesn't work then the relationship is in big trouble. Your DP (and mine) needs to see the situation from your point of view and stop trying to justify his own dc's bad behaviour.
We had a situation last weekend where my DS (12) and his DS (10) were both equally rude and stroppy. I banned my DS from the iPad and took away a game I had bought him the day before while DSC had no consequences at all!!!
When we argued about discussed it later all DP could focus on was how my DS was as bad and egged his Ds on. But my DS was punished and apologised later on - that is the point he misses. All dc can be horrid - especially hormonal preteen boys but when there is no punishment that is when the problems start.
Good luck for Friday - I feel your frustration!

[theredhen]

Kaluki, like when we visited a restaurant recently with ds and his two eldest. All were not well behaved, dp obviously had the hump but guess which child was the only one who got told off? I told dp that the right way to deal with it was to sit down with all the kids and discuss it despite the fact that I had already told my ds off but he didnt say a word to his kids.

You are both right. I need to make it clear to the counsellor that dp has not once come to me to discuss any issues about ds despite me asking him to several times. He only ever mentions it when I'm talking about all the crap him and his children and ex cause.

[Kaluki]

The biggest row DP and I have ever had was when my dc were playing up and he sat there SMILING looking all smug!
I pointed out that my dc would be punished for their behaviour and if it were his dc he would be in town buying them them presents to reward it.
The difference is in the parenting not the children.

[Petal02]

Redhen, I understand what you?re saying. I agree with the other posters; if he starts to distort the situation to his own advantage, then make sure you speak up!!!!! It seems that the genesis of the problem is that he can see no wrong in his children, but your son can?t do anything right. And I?m hoping the counsellor will see this. If you put your case as articulately as you do on this site, I think you?ll get your point across.

I think that you?re dreadfully outnumbered, and that even if your DP morphed into a competent parent, the situation would still be a challenge. I think most people would struggle with four of someone else?s children in the house the majority of the time, even if they were perfectly well-behaved.

But you have to cope with four non-parented children, a Disney Dad and manipulative ex.

I really hope that counselling goes well, please keep us posted.

[theredhen]

I get so annoyed with him when he starts talking about DS because I feel it's so unjust. I'm also worrying I will lose it with him and then it will look that I'm a disney Mum with a precious child!

It's nice to hear that I put things across well on here, I think I can manage to do that in the counselling room too, as long as I stay calm about my DS.

I think it's also good for me to be reminded that 4 kids who are fantastically parented, with a father who had a decent relationship with the ex would still be difficult just because of sheer numbers and I shouldn't forget that!

Kaluki, yes, it's all in the parenting. I honestly think most of my DSC are actually "easier" children in a lot of ways than my DS but they literally don't have any boundaries. In fact the ruder they are, the harder my DP tries to make them "like" him. I really hope the counsellor is going to see this and tell DP!

[Kaluki]

Good luck today Redhen.
Let us know how you get on

[allnewtaketwo]

Was just wondering how you got on redhen. Was it ok?

[theredhen]

Yes, it went ok but not as well as I'd hoped, but it's early days yet. Will update properly when I get a chance

[theredhen]

Well the new counsellor is ok and quite a "sensitive" type of bloke as you would expect. On the positive side we spoke about my dp dislike of ds and I showing affection by cuddling on the sofa etc. The counsellor spoke to him for quite a while about jealousy and how there is nothing wrong with showing affection to a child or adult of any age.

However we did spend most of the time talking about ds and dp relationship, which whilst I agree it is important, I do feel is a secondary issue and I plan on making it clear next time that there's no point discussing this secondary issue if the first issue - the issue that made me contact them in the first place, isn't resolved.

He spoke about dsc not really being able to win because theyre always trying to please both parents and that perhaps we should concentrate on improving what we can and not focussing on what we can't. I've now sat and thought about that and think he wants to focus on dp and ds relationship but treat the dsc like they are not really part of it because they're not here all the time.

I spoke about some really nasty comments from dsc and the counsellor dismissed them. One example is ridiculing of ds for spending his money oin "things" whilst taking all their money from here back to mums and then dp giving them even more which again goes back to mums. Dsc use ds stuff as communal things. Counsellor dismissed it as their money and they can do what they like with it. I think that's fair enough if they were taught not to be rude to ds.

He did talk about letting the kids come to family counselling and dp is adamant he doesn't want anyone to know about counselling, counsellor asked why and he said he was scared his ex would find out, counsellor pointed out that he is allowing ex to manipulate our decisions and our lives.

So it's early days but I am going to state very clearly next time that I am going to resolve issues about behaviour in all the children, house rules, consequences, boundaries and ex wife's input allowed into our lives by dp.

[allnewtaketwo]

So I guess a bit of mixed start. You're absolutely right about the need to focus on the primary issues, I hope you're able to air that next time. Must be so hard when convo is turned around to you and your DS when you're so heavily outnumbered!

[Kaluki]

Sounds like he's using your ds as a smokescreen for the real problem.
HIS dc are the issue which causes the problems.
He shouldn't dislike you and your ds being affectionate, that is just wrong of him!!!

[theredhen]

Yes, DP was adamant that cudding a 14yr boy is "not right" and obviously the counsellor picked up on that. I suggested that maybe DP is jealous, but he is insistent that it's just "wrong". To be quite honest, he made himself look like an out of touch, unemotional, unfeeling man, which kind of sums up how I feel about him sometimes.

It is difficult to say "actually I don't want to talk about this" in counselling because as soon as you say that, it looks like you have an issue with whatever is being discussed and the counsellor then launches into a "why don't you want to talk about this, does it upset you?" sort of conversation.

I'm finding more and more that DP is not listening to me at the time of conversation but then actually doing what I am suggesting. He actually came home from counselling and had a "talk" with DSD1 who has been absolutely vile recently and funnily enough she has actually been quite pleasant to be around this weekend. Made all the right noises to DP about what an improvement and how lovely she has been and how he did a good job etc.

Feel like I have to treat him like a child sometimes, it's like patting him on the head for doing well. It's so damn frustrating when I just want him to deal with it without me having to manage it and hoping he will take on board what I say to him!

[NotaDisneyMum]

redhen - what you say about the primary and secondary issues reminded me of a conversation that I had in my one-to-one with the mediator last week.

I have approached mediation to discuss a specific issue with my ex. But, both the mediator and I know that when he attends, he will want to discuss a totally different issue, which has been raised many times before, and is, in my opinion, unresolvable.

The mediator gave me the choice of either refusing to discuss that issue with him, or allowing him to "say his piece" and discuss his most pressing issues first, in the hope that will make him more receptive to listening to what I have to say afterwards.

Perhaps you could look at this in the same way? Not that you won't be addressing the issues that you want to discuss, but that you deal with your DP's issues first, and then move onto the issues that are important to you?

[theredhen]

That's a good point, but I do feel that it's OK working on DP relationship with DS but ultimately if the primary issue isn't addressed, then there will be no relationship between DS and DP because I will moving back to my own house.

So we could spend weeks talking about it, getting DS involved in family counselling etc, all for me to say to DS a few weeks later that actually you're not likely to even see DP anymore because him and I have split up.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Yes, if it's got to the point where your issue is so key to the continuing of your relationship, then it should take precedence; does the counsellor know that this is make or break and if there aren't improvements quickly then the relationship is over?

It may help to spell it out in those terms in your next session; then your DP can decide if his own issues are as pressing.

[theredhen]

I did make it very clear to the last counsellor at my own session without DP, but of course, we have changed counsellor and to be honest, I'm not convinced the new one has read our notes.

Got another issue that has cropped up last week in that one of the children wants to live with us. Another child who has learnt that they can argue with one parent and runaway to the other.

Obviously I am being supportive of DP whilst feeling even more out of control about my life. So, even more snotty emails than usual, even more stressed DP and a redhen that's trying to explain her frustration to DP and still getting nowhere.

Sigh.

[Petal02]

I agree with the poster who suggests your DP is using his relationship with your DS as a smokescreen, rather than address the real issues.

I would imagine he knows darn fine that he's a disney dad, that he doesn't parent his children properly, and that he puts you under unacceptable strain. But to remedy this will require him to do things he really doesn't want to do - ie have a more 'normal' relationship with his children, stand up to his ex, and give you more respect.

I still think the biggest issue is sheer weight of numbers though. The thought of four step children, no matter how well parented, would send most of us running to the hills. Could you honestly cope with all these children, even if your DP changed his ways?

Redhen, to be honest I don't think your DP will ever change, because he doesn't want to change. I think the only chance you stand of making him see sense, is to move out, and then he may wake up and smell the coffee. However it's very easy for me to sit here and say that, whereas doing what I've just suggested is very hard indeed.

I think the success or otherwise of your relationship depends on whether you're willing/able to devise coping strategies. Although I hate telling fellow females to ignore things that make them really unhappy.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Does your DP know that it's make or break and that you WILL leave if there aren't changes?

Has he actually heard you if you have told him? Perhaps you need to start the next session with that ultimatum - hopefully, the councillor will reframe it in a way your DP understands

[theredhen]

Petal - Do I think I could cope even if the children were parented well and no nasty ex interferring? I don't know, is the honest answer because I haven't had that experience. I'd like to think I can. I think if contact was rigid, I would feel better but that's probably unreasonable bearing in mind we have 4 teens out of the five kids. But there is so much unpredictability in our lives because of the ex and the children, that I never know what is happening and DP doesn't see fit to discuss things with me, only to "tell" me what he is doing or saying to ex. I do agree that DP knows that he has to change and I also think he is fully aware of his childrens failings, when I spoke out his DSD1 being more pleasant he told me that it won't last and she will start being rude again soon enough! I told him that if he expects rudeness, that is exactly what he will get. It's like he feels he has no choice, which is ridiculous.

NADM - I have never actually said "if things don't change, I am leaving". I suppose I didn't want to emotionally blackmail him, which is probably daft because ultimately it isn't blackmail at all. This is my last straw. Perhaps I'm frightened that I won't go through with leaving and I know if I say it, then I have to go through with it. I do plan on saying it in counselling though, despite feeling really uncomfortable saying it face to face.