Sorry this is so long but I really need some advice

[knotalot]

OK, so a bit of background. I have been friends with my now partner for best part of 6yrs, hence the reason why I know the following. My partner dated a women for 6mths, split up as she would turn up everywhere he was and hated the way she spoke to his kids. For best part of a year she stalked him, turned up at pubs he went to and he would find her at his home when he got in from work (he was staying with a relative at the time). She would hang around all the time he went out with his friends, even though they all told her to leave. Anyway, one particular night he was out and she turned up, they ignored her and carried on with their night. One by one they went home and my partner woke up the next morning with her in bed next to him. He can't remember what happened that night (and from personal experience he is useless even after a few pints) but a few weeks after she called to say she is pregnant.

So, nearly 3 years down the line and we decide to get together. I finally meet his daughter (after a court battle with her mum) and we start to form a relationship. However, since her mum found out I was on the scene she has been an absolute nightmare. I have not done anything/said anything to aggravate her, in fact I've only ever briefly met her once and that was before we got together and I bumped into them in a shop.

We believe that she is saying things to the daughter which are causing great concern. When we mention Grandad X she says mummy says he's not my real grandad. Her siblings are met with mummy says they are not mine. She also said that mummy says i can only love two people (mum now has a new partner). These are just some of the things we have to contend with, we both deal with them very positively (i.e. don't say her mum is wrong, but say she can love as many people as she wants to, must have misheard mummy etc) but I can't help but feel so sorry for this poor little girl who is obviously being told certain things and must be so confused.

So thats my first issue, we have told mum about it but she just denies saying anything to her or within earshot. How can we progress with this? Its not fair that this is happening to her.

My second issue is that due to the circumstances that she was conceived I have serious doubts over where he is her bio dad. I don't see any resemblance and believe that mum would have done anything to get him back (before she knew we were together she'd invite him round to watch football promising to get him some beers and regularly allowed contact at her house. This has now stopped). I still believe that even now she would have him back.

We have spoken about this issue and he says that while he can't categorically say she is def his she is his daughter and he loves her and wouldn't have a paternity test. I totally understand this and have told him. What is eating me up is that this little girl is being told all this stuff, leading to confusion and affecting her well being, when she potentially doesn't need to. Sorry, i'm not sure how else to write it, but I'm sure you'll understand what I mean.

We nearly split up over this as I feel that if I was out of the situation her mum might go back to how it was before and not implanting things in her head. We have decided however, to go to counseling to discuss it. Me and my partner have an amazing relationship and it tore us both apart at the thought of splitting up because of the situation, hence why we are going to counseling to see if we can get through it.

I would love to hear your opinions on how to deal with this. Is it best to deal with the paternity issue now or wait to see if she ever questions it when she's older.

[kaluki]

He sounds lovely to think of her as his dd even though there is a chance she may not be and normally I would say that he shouldn't have the test.
BUT what if in a few years the mum decides to tell him and his dd that he isn't her dad after all. If he knows for sure from now then he will be much better prepared to deal with the fall out when (if) this happens.
The only problem is that if he turns out it to be the father will he really be able to carry in as if he is. It's one thing saying it doesnt matter but when it is there In black and white it is a different matter.

[knotalot]

Thanks for your reply. He is lovely. He's an amazing father and would do anything for his children. He did say that even if he wasn't her bio father he would still want to spend time with her, which I totally understand. He has been her father for over 3yrs and that bond is well and truly implanted. If she found out that a test had been done though I'm sure she would withdraw contact (she already said at mediation that she would prefer him not to have any contact at all).
Do you have any advice on how to deal with what mum says to her? Is there something we can do like having someone talk to dd to see what is going on? I've heard of child psychologists doing this kind of thing but I'm not sure what the criteria needs to be before you can see one.

[fireflymouse]

Knotalot it sounds like the mother would be a nightmare whether you are in the picture or not. I would definitely encourage dp to go for paternity test as everyone needs to know the truth daughter especialy, and also bare in mind he may well not be the father and then if mother goes off wanting him around she could refuse contact all together. Sweeping it under the carpet will not make it go away, poor little girl though with all that bitterness going on around her :(

[Smum99]

We had a very similar situation when dss was around the same age. Sadly it hasn't got much better.If the mum's intention is to break the bond then it's likely she will continue and you will face an ongoing battle. I had hoped dss would independently, as he got older realise what was happening, but the influence from his mum is very strong. She makes DSS feel very guilty for enjoying spending time with his dad.Occasionally DSS stands up to his mum but there is a high cost to him for doing that.

Google parental alienation - notadisneymum linked to some useful resources recently.

Does your dp have contact formally agreed?

[kaluki]

Maybe he should do the paternity test and seek legal advice.
I'm pretty sure that if he has been in her life for 3 years and has paid regular maintenance he could get some sort of contact order or parental responsibility for her.
I agree with firefly - poor little girl being used as a weapon like that

[knotalot]

thanks for your replies. He has contact for 5hrs a wk, every wknd. Not a lot but hopefully the court will extend it soon. He's on her bc so he has pr. To give you an idea of what she's like. Shes stopped contact because she thought he's other kids were present during contact, they weren't. This was the reason we went to court. She blames him for any bad behaviour and tries to make out he's a bad father. She won't change anything for us but expects us to drop things for her. We oblidge as we understand that things come up & don't want to be unreasonable. Hopefully the court will see that we aren't being unreasonable. He's always paid maintenance through the csa.

I wish he would do a test but he's already said no and i don't want him blaming me for forcing him if it comes back that he isn't her dad. Suppose i'm kind of hoping that he'll eventually make the decision for sd sake.

Smum99. I'm sorry your going through something similar. How many years has it been like this for? How hard is it to deal with? Do you have any tips for dealing with it?

Its just so hard and both sd mum and his other ex are being so difficult at the moment. There's always something going on, and not nice stuff, always bad. I don't have any kids of my own and find it really difficult at times. Don't get me wrong, i do think a lot of them and enjoy them being around but its so difficult having deal with their mums. X

[DevonLodger]

I don't understand why you are so keen to encourage a paternity test. Your DP (who sounds lovely) has made it quite clear to you that she is his daughter, he loves her and he doesn't want to question paternity. That should be enough for you. Resemblance is irrelevant. Lots of children don't look like their parents and often resemblances come with time. Just think how hurt his daughter would be when she discovers that he had question marks over her paternity that he needed to do a DNA test. she will be told by her mother who will need to give consent for the test to be done and that will cause potential irreparable harm. DNA isn't everything in the end.the bind that exists between your partner an his daughter is far more important than that. Your partner sounds like he is doing a wonderful job of providing love, stability and security to this little girl. Your attempt to introduce a paternity test has the risk of destabilising this.

[knotalot]

I'm concerned over how this is affecting sd. Its not fair that she should be put through all this and the thought that it could continue until she's an adult scares me. What kind of impact is this going to have on her? Its not sd that is being questioned on paternity its the ex. The lies she tells is unbelievable (we recently found out that the bad behaviour she has been complaining about and blaming dp for is all lies).
DevonLodger - I do understand what your saying and have questioned myself on many occasions, but my conclusion is always that same. I don't think its fair that sd is being put through this potentially unnecessarily.

[kaluki]

Devonlodger - What if, a few years down the line, the childs mother decides she doesn't want him seeing his dd and announces that he's not the father, how will the dd feel then? If it is done now the child will be none the wiser and he will know one way or the other and then can take that particular weapon away from this woman who seems to lie when it suits her, regardless of the harm it will do to her dd.
She has already hinted that the dd might not be his. If it were me I would want to know for sure, then I could deal with the outcome.

[purpleroses]

I think you should check out the legal implication of the situation kaluki describes. If your DP has PR, then I think this would remain and need overturning by a court, even if he did turn out not to be her bio dad. I'm not sure how easily a court would do this, if he has been a father to her and has a strong relationship (and you certainly don't have to be a biological relative to have PR). I'm pretty sure your DP would remain on the birth certificate. But I'm not certain of exactly where he'd stand. If you could look into it and reassure yourself that he would be likely to keep PR and contact even if this was to happen it might help you to relax about it and not to worry.

[NotaDisneyMum]

OP - it's good that your DP is seeking is contact order; but I hope he is prepared for the repeated legal action that will be required to enforce it - it sounds unlikely that his ex will comply if it doesn't suit her

As for paternity - if your DP wants to stay in his DDs life as a father, then that has got to be a positive thing for her At the moment he has equal legal status in her life - if he is proved not to be her biological father, then he could lose that right - IMO, it is better to keep that for as long as possible.

[DevonLodger]

Kaluki - I don't understand your reasoning. In order to take a paternity test the mother's consent is required. Depending on how old the child is a cheek swab will need to be taken. It's entirely possible that she will ask what they are doing and why it is needed. Should they lie? It is impossible to hide the existence of a paternity test when a vindictive ex is involved. She will certainly tell the child if she thinks it will cause disruption with the father's relationship.

So they get the test result and then what? he isn't the bio father. Does he want to give up the relationship. Sounds like he doesn't to me. But it's possible that the ex will say he should if not now then some time in the future and the child who he has built a father /daughter bond with will be devastated as will he.

He is the bio father then the ex will always use the fact that he doubted this against him and potentially poison the relationship between him and his daughter.

I cannot see anything to be gained apart from hurt on all sides. He has brought her up as his daughter, she knows no other father, he loves her and she loves him. Please respect his wishes not to have the test done. In these circumstances I really do think that he is in the best position to judge.

He is the bio father

[NotaDisneyMum]

Devon - I agree with you entirely - but didn't realise both parents consent would be required for the test to take place; isn't Parental Responsibility enough? Do both parents have to consent?

[kaluki]

I also thought he could have the test done without needing the mothers consent. I'd just rather know all the facts now rather than have any nasty surprises in the future.

[DevonLodger]

Sorry, if he has parental responsibility (I.e on the birth certificate for a child born after 2006) then a father can sign the requisite forms for the consent. But if he doesn't he can't. Sorry I assumed that given that there is a potential question mark about paternity then it would be unlikely that he was on the BC. I

That said it is such a life changing issue that doing a DNA test of your child without discussing and disclosing to the mother (even one as vindictive as this one is) seems like quite peculiar thing to do to be honest. The DP in this case is quite adamant that he doesn't need to know. He loves his daughter. I think that says it all.

[AnitaBlake]

In order to have a DNA test carried out, you need samples from mother, child and potential father. This is so they can cross-reference the marker strands. DH had a DNA test via the CSA when his ex took him to the CSA for maintenance. She refused to provide any evidence or reassurance that SD was his, only her 'word' which isn't worth, well, anything really.

If he's on the BC, assuming they weren't married, then he's already accepted that SD is his, as he had to have been present when the birth was registered.

I would certainly go down the 'mummy must have been mistaken' route, as much as possible, and document, documment, document everything. SD used to say things like 'mummy says that's not true' or 'mummy says I have to do things this way' and responses were along the lines of 'oh, but sweetie, you that that's not true, you must have misheard' or 'well, this is Daddy and ABs house, and we do things this way here, so don't you worry (smile)'. She stopped telling us what mummy said after a while ;) of course that was after a very interesting talk about how only 'special' babies are fed with bottles, and breastfed babies aren't special at all.......... [Hmm]

Anyway, that's way off topic lol. Document everything, especially the messing around. This was the main driver for our court order. The ex refused to ever commit which is why we went to court. We have SD one night a week now, and to an extent, its settled down quite a bit, its not great but it could be way worse :)

[taxiforme]

Hi

This must be really hard but it sounds like you have a strong relationship.

Relating to the issue with the child being used as a weapon, this is all too familiar and likely would happen to the child no matter who your dp was with, it appears, so don't take this personally. You are, I think, right to try and neutralise the comments she makes with dsd. Kindness and a stable and steady hand will never do harm but I fear that is all you can do.

Have you thought that the issue of the pat test might be more of the same? Control, sowing seeds of doubt in dp's mind? Messing with your relationship as a result? I would keep an open mind about the circumstances of her conception. I seems odd though that his ex kept quiet about his during the court battle you spoke about. Surely this would be the ace up her sleeve? You dp seems to be accepting of the status quo.

It must be a heavy burden, but it is your dp's and his ex's - welcome to the no man's land of being a step parent. counselling is a good idea and you should be positive at least about doing something. You sound to have he child's best interests at heart and in his own way your dp clearly does by saying " no matter what, I will love you" about/to her.

Put this way, and in the mists of what might or might not happen in the future, however the child came about, what more does a child need to know, or feel, than this? I would try and hold fast to that thought.

[droves]

Its important to establish the paternity of the dd , because of certain medical conditions.

Not to worry you , but there are things that can be passed on , the dd might not have any problems , but there is a chance she might be a carrier of something and pass it to her own children.

There is also the fact that some conditions have a " run" in families . Heart disease , strokes , ect.


If her genetic history is known then the possibility is known and she can make choices as to whether or not to have kids herself. Or have the correct info to make approprate lifestyle choices.

Its got very little to do with who her "dad" is or isnt ...its about her .

[droves]

FWIW , I think that mothers who lie about who fathered their children , should be prosecuted .

Birth certificates are legal documents , and ideally if there is any doubt then dna should be done before fathers names are added.

If women really dont know who the dad is then they should just be honest and say at the time.

[knotalot]

Thank you all so much for your comments. They have really helped. Like a few of you have said, ex will be a pain regardless of whether DP is with me or someone else and as long as DSD has stability and unconditional love on our side then that can only be a positive.
I am completely undecided on it now though, whereas before I was for paternity testing. You have really helped me to see the situation from both sides (DP's, amazing as he is, is not too good at explaining things) and now I'm in a better frame of mind. I will definitely be completely open minded to the outcome of the counseling now.
Thank you all again xx