Educational Psych advises against ASD diagnosis

[Missisdoyle]

My DS is 4.5 & starting primary school in Sept. His key worker at his new nursery had noticed 'unusual' behaviour (meltdowns, lack of age appropriate pragmatic speech, lack of social skills,stringent need for order, excellent maths/ English skills etc) & contacted the ed pych. Spin on 6 months & her advice was against diagnosis, as 'labelling is problematic later on' . She says he will get extra support at school & thanks to her, he has an extra 5hrs a week help, without diagnosis. I am really confused, though ! I get that labelling could be detrimental, but surely he would be getting more help, after a formal diagnosis ? We have just started to send him to a private SALT, which is v expensive, but the NHS waiting list is so long, we feel early intervention is best. This SALt has agreed with me that he has pragmatic language disorder, but he says that the NHS do not usually have funds to cover this type of disorder. He mentioned that this language disorder isn't usually diagnosed anymore & he claimed a peadiatric diagnosis would help DS ! Both professionals used the term, ' higher functioning autism'. I am v confused by all of this. Has anyone else had similar experiences. My DS needs this SALT to improve his difficulty with pragmatic language. I think even if I have to get a loan of the bank ,it is worth it. He is such a bright & loving child, he gets so frustrated with his lack of conversation. He can recite adverts, tv progs, films, songs, word perfectly & reverts to this chatter ( a la Rainman...) It is my dearest wish he could learn to express his thoughts better& converse. Is this possible ? Can a child learn pragmatic speech ? He can be so funny in a physical way & has friends at nursery, but I woory so much for his future. I would be so grateful to hear some success stories. Thanks & sorry for this big post !!

[2boysnamedR]

Was it a LA EP? In my county the head of EPs would be interested to hear this. ASD language needs the right targeted help.

Lanugauge disorders are generally for life but of course like anything, there's room to improve and learn

[Missisdoyle]

Hi, thanks, yes it was the head LA EP, in Bury .

[Missisdoyle]

She didn't interview or observe my son, she just interviewed me & his key worker.


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[2boysnamedR]

I'm not sure that's a viewed shared by most EPs. Are they talking about getting a EHCP?

My toddler gets funding for 15 hours 1:1 at nursery

[LeChien]

In my limited experience I would be looking for a diagnosis. Support can be sketchy, but with a diagnosis more appropriate support can be given. It may also mean that your son can understand who he is.
I would be very unimpressed at the EP saying this would be a label. If he grows out of this and doesn't need the support, he won't get it. However, if he doesn't grow out of it, the support and diagnosis is in place so no battling later on when he may be finding school tougher than he is now.
If he doesn't have ASD he won't get a diagnosis. If he does, it is not a label. Calling a diagnosis a label is almost always used in a negative way, and implies that it's not appropriate for the child to have that diagnosis, which isn't going to help the child one little bit.

[Missisdoyle]

Thanks so much, ladies. You have put into words what was unclear in my mind, but what I have felt. Yes, I also think that diagnosing something means that the recipient can be enlightening. Certainly, I have looked at my DS totally differently, since the request for an EP was made. I know my son has higher functioning autism, as for me he has many of the signs.

[Missisdoyle]

I meant it can be enlightening for the recipient of the diagnosis !

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"The EP is right, 'labelling' a child can indeed be harmful, so many children get labelled naughty, violent, weird, product of bad parenting, and worse, but diagnosing a child correctly can be incredibly empowering for both child and parents".

What PolterGoose wrote.

A diagnosis and a label are two very different things. (So many children with a whole gamut of special needs can and do slip through the net at school and they and their parents get wrongly labelled).

Its also the longer term you need to think about as well and those years ahead in terms of schooling do seem to go very quickly. Also the pressure is going to mount on DS the further along the school system he travels.

Five hours a week help is small potatoes really and only equates to an hour a day (this help is likely not a one hour chunk either); he perhaps needs more than that and will need help too from an EHCP in place particularly the further he goes through schooling.

Labelling is not the same as getting a diagnosis; also getting a diagnosis could open doors that would otherwise remain closed off.

Its a question of money; EP is under pressure from LEA anyway. Has anyone ever mentioned you applying for an EHCP?. If not I would do this in any event.

Use IPSEA's website as well to gain more info //www.ipsea.org.uk

[ouryve]

EP can go swivel. EP doesn't have to live with the consequences of being incorrectly "labelled" as naughty or scatty or rude.

[Missisdoyle]

Forgive my ignorance, what is an EHCP ? The EP said, when she gave this advise, that she knew a very gifted young man with AS, who tried to get into the RAF, but was rejected on the grounds of his diagnosis. She meant it could close doors for DS, down the line... That made me think... But like Le Chien said, if he has ASD, he would get the correct diagnosis & if not,it wouldn't matter. How do I get a diagnosis, then ? Is it through the EP ? I gather there would be a long waiting list. Would he get better SALT support if we go this route ? Attila, I did cynically,think, when she advised against the diagnosis, that lack of funds may be involved ! I can see what you mean.

[Missisdoyle]

Forgive my ignorance, what is an EHCP ? The EP said, when she gave this advise, that she knew a very gifted young man with AS, who tried to get into the RAF, but was rejected on the grounds of his diagnosis. She meant it could close doors for DS, down the line... That made me think... But like Le Chien said, if he has ASD, he would get the correct diagnosis & if not,it wouldn't matter. How do I get a diagnosis, then ? Is it through the EP ? I gather there would be a long waiting list. Would he get better SALT support if we go this route ? Attila, I did cynically,think, when she advised against the diagnosis, that lack of funds may be involved ! I can see what you mean.

[ouryve]

I can't say I'm too gutted about neither of my boys being able to join the armed forces and go and fight.

EHCP is an education, health and care plan - what used to be a statement of SEN.

EPs can't diagnose on their own. He canbe assessed by SALT, OT, EP, other psychologists, psychiatrist and so on, but the diagnosis is only usually finalised by a paediatrician or psychiatrist, depending on who is leading the team or what the range of issues is. All an EP can do is evaluate a child's needs in an educational setting.

[Ineedmorepatience]

EP is being unhelpful in my opinion!!

I agree with what polter said about "labels"!

[LeChien]

I would wonder if lack of funds had something to do with it.
Where I live always had a bad reputation for ASD diagnosis and services, but I've since heard that in the last year things have got even worse.

To start the ball rolling, go to your gp and ask for a referral to a developmental paediatrician. In some ares it's CAMHS that do the assessing, but try to find out yourself first. If the gp doesn't know and sends you to the wrong place it's a complete waste of time!
We are going privately to a psychologist and paediatrician - they're using the same diagnostic tools and guidelines so the LA should recognise it if he gets a diagnosis.

[Icimoi]

The issue with the armed forces is an interesting one. I understand that they do indeed exclude people with ASD diagnoses; but (a) people within the armed forces would tell you that they are quite certain that there are a number of people within the services, including those at high levels, who are definitely on the spectrum (after all, all that discipline and structure can be very helpful!) and that indeed for some jobs it can be a positive recommendation; (b) as we all know, an ASD diagnosis covers a very wide range of abilities; and (c) there's a strong chance that, if challenged, this policy would be found to be unlawful because it is a blanket discriminatory policy which has been imposed for no good reason. The same may well apply if doors are closed to people with autism in other careers.

[2boysnamedR]

I know someone refused the RAF due to eczema and taking steroid cream for it

[Missisdoyle]

I must say, I agree with Ouryve, I also secretly/ selfishly thought that being denied entry to the armed forces, a good thing !! IT did concern me, however, that there could be other professions that may have similar restrictions.

[Missisdoyle]

So, can our private SALT diagnose him with Pragmatic language impairment, or does that have to be from Ped also ? I didn't get a chance to talk with him properly at DS assessment ( DS2, who is 2.4 was creating merry hell that day, in background...)