Not getting 15 hours at nursery due to SN

[Crankycarp]

Ds2 is 3.5 has considerable speech delay and behavioural difficulties.he recently started a mainstream school nursery and has settled in really well and loves it. He's only doing just over 2 hours a day as his key worker doesn't feel he can sit happily for story time / do one whole day with them yet. He's going to get one to one support after Easter but again just for the two hours per week day. I'm a bit about this as even if he can't sit for 10 minutes at a time yet he's happy quietly playing while the others do carpet time. Are the nursery being a bit unreasonable or is it standard practice to offer less hours for SEN?

[Ineedmorepatience]

It is difficult when it is non statutory education because the LA's seem to think it doesnt matter!

The 15 hrs for 3 yr olds should be available to all children regardless of disability and if it is your choice to use the full 15 hrs then you should be able to.

Maybe a phone call to the Early Years SEN Advisor for your area might help. He or she should be able to help the school to access funding for your Ds.

My LA have had a 10hr blanket funding ceiling for early yrs one to one for years but people are starting to shout about it so we are hopin for change soon.

Get fiesty and fight for what your Ds is entitled to, he needs you to advocate for him.

Good luck

[senvet]

The golden rule is that a child's SEN will be met. So if your child needs mor than 2 hours a day at nursery to meet his SEN then that is what he should have. Bear in mind that early intervention is also a crucial part of the approach that LAs should be following.
That is what the law says, but the trick is getting the LAs to spend the money.

You can ask nursery to request an EHCP and to have his SEN assessed. If they refuse, then ask for one your self. That may take a while, so in the mean time see if GP can refer you to SALT and possibly OT if you/nursery see any differences in either balance/walking/gripping etc or sensory issues.

Also see if portage have been contacted.

Hope this helps to get you started

[DancingDays]

My 3.5 year old was up until recently in mainstream nursery, he did 15 hours. It was never a question, he had 1 to 1 during those hours too. I have heard of others being asked to pay more for this, but our nursery quoted the "free at point of entry" for 3 plus funding. The nursery viewed his entitlement to the 15 hours as equal to NT children and ensured he had all he needed for that time.

Does your DC have a early years action plan? I would be asking LA about the nursery's decision.

My DS only moved to SN nursery as it's linked to the school he will be going to and it was my decision.

[AntiquityIsFlaky]

I just went through this!

ds2 is 3, has autism and a speech delay and started at a LA nursery for 1.5 hours twice a week. I upped it to include story time and nursery rhymes at the end of the session as he loves them. At the end of the second time I was asked to scale back the time again as he was too distressed. I asked on here and heard other ways this could have been handled. They had also left him in a dirty nappy those two sessions so I just decided not to take him anymore because I figured if people whose job it was didn't already know, when other places did, then they weren't open to learning and it wasn't my job to teach them.

Anyway, I went to see what they had on at the Sure Start/Children's centre and they told me of the nursery just opened in their building. He had his first session that same week! for 4 hours! He was fine and he loved it! For story time they just told him what was his cushion and he was free to sit on it or not. He just listened from across the room and as the sessions went on he got closer & joined in, then sat with them.

The SENCO at his current nursery was appalled by the last one and said it was their job to make sure he could access the same opportunities as children without special needs and that he would never learn how to behave in a group situation if he wasn't in a group situation! They are marvellous. Unfortunately it's private and only offers 12 hours over 2 or 3 days. But I'm applying for DLA to hopefully add at least another morning to that.

I would say the nursery are unreasonable and that you want a plan and timeframe for his integration into nursery for the full hours children without additional needs get. Ask how they are planning on him learning the skills necessary for storytime if he is at home. If he was capable of learning it the same as other children he wouldn't have extra needs!! Therefore they need to use other strategies.

[Crankycarp]

Thank you so much everyone - all this advice is wonderful. I'm going to work throughbut now with a cup of tea to draft an action plan. Antiquity: you are so, so right how on earth can he learn to intergrare into a group if opportunities not given. Feel so much more empowered now - thank you all so much!

[chocnomorechoc]

I would apply for an EHCP. Ipsea have a model letter on their website.

any other nurseries around who would be more proactive?

[JJXM]

My DS only did 12 hours a week at nursery for the first six months spread evenly over 4 days as he couldn't cope with meal times and home time. It was a private nursery so open all year round and we arranged with the Early Years team at the LA that DS would do 12 hours a week but that would be spread over the whole year rather than just in term time which gave him continuity.

DS also had top up funding for one-to-one. Eventually, once he was settled there he did 12 hours over 3 days including meal times. We also picked the private nursery as they dealt with children from 3 months and therefore weren't fussed about changing his nappy.

I would echo applying for an EHCP in the long term but definitely call your Early Years SEN team.

[AgnesDiPesto]

DS couldn't sit through story time / carpet time until he was 4 or 5 and even then only after we had won 35 hours a week 1:1 ABA therapy at tribunal and he had been taught how to! There will be children who are much older who still can't do it. Even now DS (age 8, mainstream year 3) opts out of very wordy carpet time and has written instructions and starts his work instead.

There are 2 issues. 1 is your entitlement to childcare - you shouldn't be discriminated against because your child is disabled / has SEN. Disability law now protects carers of disabled children.

The 2nd is your child's right to intervention to meet his SEN. This shouldn't be set by how much free childcare the govt offers (although it often is because mainstream nursery places are a cheap way for LAs to discharge their sen duties). He should receive the number of hours necessary to minimise the impact of his disability and help him achieve the best outcomes / narrow the gap with peers etc. The number of hours of education should be based on his needs. Mostly children with SEN need more education not less than other children as they have more to learn and learn slower.

This is why most special school nurseries offer more than 15 hours per week.

In our case we proved at tribunal at age 3 that he needed 35 hours per week of specialist intervention to meet his SEN. The 15 hours a week childcare offer was irrelevant, SEN law doesn't mention this at all.

To ascertain how many hours of education or intervention your child needs will require assessment by the LA either inside or outside the EHCP process e.g. a SLT / EP / Early Year Specialist teacher should assess and advise whats required.

Check out your councils website there should be a local offer and it should state what the council funds for SEN at early years / what services are available

For e.g. my LA offers 75% of 15 hours 1:1 with just written evidence from the nursery and a professional e.g. SLT. For 100% 1:1 or > 15 hours per week you need apply for EHCP.

I would consider applying yourself for EHCP but I would also self refer to the Ed Psych / Early Years specialist service and ask them to visit.

Look up SEN Code of Practice etc on Dept of Education website and read up on your rights.

You must contact the Council though be it EP or SEN team as the legal duty to educate your child lies with the Council but you can't hold them to account if they don't know theres a problem.

[Crankycarp]

Once again thank you so much everyone for your wonderful suggestions and for sharing your experiences??