Here some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

Back from meeting, Star, Agnes, Keep, Maria and others

(110 Posts)
claw2 Thu 10-Jan-13 11:55:39

Room full of people this time, about 10.

Basically, they are offering home tuition now, 5 hours, tutor available immediately. But ds would have to stay on roll at this school.

CAMHS are saying if i home ed, seen as ds doesnt have anxiety/self harm when not attending school. They dont see what they can offer. They would make referral to medical needs for home tuition, if i want them to, then stay involved.

SW is saying ss will be involved long term, passed to another team (she would tell me which team later) to ensure that all of ds's needs are met.

Meeting was TAC, is that the same as CIN?

Sorry Claw. I'm just so relieved for you I'm getting a bit angry in retrospect and sarcastic.

Can you/will you come to the Moondog training on 23rd Feb? I'd like to take you out for a drink/coffee/ice-cream afterwards or night before if you can stay.

claw2 Thu 10-Jan-13 22:12:12

The Early Intervention Teams (EITs) in xxxxx were set up in xxxxx to work with xxxxxx schools supporting children aged 3-16 who need extra help to thrive in school.

Each team is staffed by the following specialists:-
•A Team Manager (responsible for two teams)
•Educational Psychologists
•Behaviour Support Partners (including a Pupil Support Assistant)
•Education Welfare Officers
•AEN/SEN Partners
•SEN Advice and Moderation Partners
•Social Workers

I think this might be this borough 'disability team', but seen as this sw was at the meeting too, as well as SW, im assuming its not that team or maybe that is what Sw planned, thats why she was at the meeting and they speak after.

claw2 Thu 10-Jan-13 22:15:16

Where is the training day Star?

claw2 Thu 10-Jan-13 22:17:03

Im not even sure who or what they are going to 'lead', especially if i had chosen to HE! Maybe me and SW could have just held hands instead grin

AtoZandbackagain Thu 10-Jan-13 22:18:46

And as for 'lead', i was told had to be lead 'professional'.

Crazy! One of the few complaints that the LGO did agree with me was that I shouldn't have been left to coordinate the multi-agency services on my own - sometime should acted as a lead!

Claw - ask CAMHS when they expect to be in a position to provide you with a copy of the assessment report. That gives them a timeline to work on. Also state that you would like their recommendations regarding what sort of educational plcament would best suit his needs (unless you think they'll just say 'mainstream' in which case don't ask them). I did get them to say (in between the lines that DS needed residential but couched in terms such as 'intensive programme of socio-educational support' etc - i.e. not the sort of support one would get in m/s.

Anyway - as you say 2013 and today in particular have been very positive so far. Keep going - you're doing great.

claw2 Thu 10-Jan-13 22:20:34

The EITs were created in order to deal more effectively with the following:-

1.Children whose lack of progress at school stems from a number of different interrelated factors, that ideally should be addressed in a co-ordinated way.

2.Dealing with issues as soon as possible, to prevent more serious problems developing.

3.To help schools and teaching staff with problem-solving and to provide specialist guidance and support where this is needed. This will, at times, include training for school staff.

As well as dealing with children and families in terms of early intervention, team members will also work with such matters as supporting the statementing process, working with children in danger of exclusion, and those with serious attendance problems. EIT team members are also involved with a variety of projects and initiatives within xxxxxx, and some are undertaking research projects within their area of expertise.

Im guessing referral to EIT team? What do you think? thats why she was at the meeting, im guessing.

AtoZandbackagain Thu 10-Jan-13 22:27:27

Probably - sounds like a cross between damage limitatotion and another caring carrot.

Take your foot of the accelerator for a while Claw and coast with the flow. You've achieved a lot - save it for the Proposed Statement battle!

claw2 Thu 10-Jan-13 22:32:26

A-Z All CAMHS would say previous to now was 'they are not educational specialist'

They supported my request for a statement, last time, just by saying that school would find it difficult to maintain the level of support ds needed, without the aid of a statement' or something like that.

Its hard to gauge with CAMHS at the moment, as i said ive met with them once following ds's visit to A&E just to up date on the situation, that was in November. I will get more of a feel, on Monday.

Im getting the feeling, they are thinking school is responsible for ds's anxiety and self harm, weve told you, mum has told you, now someone do something about it, apart from us.

They did say at the meeting 'he doesnt get anxious or self harm while out of school' so its obvious who needs to do something and its not us kind of thing.

claw2 Thu 10-Jan-13 22:42:26

A_Z thats true, they will refer to whoever they refer to you, they will either be helpful or unhelpful, not a lot i can do about it.

School will probably be asking for the role at the next meeting, if ds is getting home tuition, paid for out of their budget.

Still i will deal with the here and now. Off for a bath and cuppa smile

In London somewhere Claw. Venue not yet organised as trying to keep costs down for parents I think.

AtoZandbackagain Thu 10-Jan-13 22:50:38

Claw - you know that CAMHS will not state he needs x school or even specialist provision because if they do the LA will ask them (NHS) to chip in with the costs as they will use that to say that CAMHS think your 's placement will be on medical grounds as well as educational.

The question for CAMHS is 'Having completed your full assessment of DS, what sort of support would DS need if he were to attempt to return to full time education?' That's a very reasonable question which you're quite justified in asking. It allows them to say simple things such as he shouldn't return to an enviroment which causes him such distress right throgh to describing specialist education he may require.

But I'd ask them verbally to ensure anything they subsequently wrote would be supportive.

AgnesDiPesto Thu 10-Jan-13 23:44:39

Sooo..... if the EIT team is for all of those things why the hell were you not under that team months ago instead of idiot sw???????????? FFS. So they don't refer you to one the team that might have some expertise - presumably on basis not want to admit school needed extra advice and support / child had genuine needs.

Surely this referral should have happened at sw initial assessment.

Oh well you can tell the early intervention team they are only about 8 months late.

justaboutchilledout Fri 11-Jan-13 08:37:24

Claw, so glad that things are starting to sound marginally more sensible and productive.

claw2 Fri 11-Jan-13 09:37:09

A-Z thanks, that is a question i will ask, i think i need to go Monday and let the senior psych, sign ds off first. Ask questions later.

Spoke to the Medical Needs person this morning to ask if the home tuition was time based. He said the package they were thinking of for ds had no time limit, they were thinking of offering home tuition up to statement, then tutor to be part of the reintegration into the named school. I will ask for any 'package' to be put into writing, after CAMHS visit and sign off.

Agnes exactly, i dont know for sure, it will be the EIT team, im assuming, as they were at the meeting and had no reason to be there other than that.

It should have been done ages ago, but SW was buying into schools 'its mums fault'. 3 allegations = initial assessment without even speaking to mum = ds's injuries are 'gnat bites' = core assessment = oops we might have this wrong, lets just start again 8 months later.

just thanks, things are looking up, and i will get a breather at last!

Claw. CAMHS is clearly right that ds' anxiety and self harm is linked to school anxiety and therefore if he's not at school there is currently no anxiety. But you want him to return to a school at some point. Surely they can treat school phobia and school related anxiety without the child actually needing to be in school? His anxiety will probably reappear at least initially if you are able to send him to the really good school you are hoping for. Is there nothing they can be doing to help him to prepare for this? It seems like they want to walk away but he still has significant anxiety difficulties that are only temporarily abated.

claw2 Fri 11-Jan-13 10:02:57

Shopping, they might well 'offer' a different plan, i will be seeing them Monday. They were saying, they cant treat an anxiety if it isnt there, kind of thing. Thier plan was for treating school anxiety, reducing self harm and getting ds back to education.

They have given Melatonin for his sleep, they previously treated his eating, they had already indicated sleeping and eating were anxiety related and therefore school related.

I will see what they say on Monday.

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Fri 11-Jan-13 10:43:55

It is outrageous that the policy accepts that supporting children and their families through the statementing process can be so traumatic and take such long period of time battling over the recognition and/or meeting of SEN that referral to the EIT becomes necessary. Statementing is supposed to make things better not worse. angry

claw2 Fri 11-Jan-13 10:50:20

I was wondering whether to mention to CAMHS that one of the schools i have looked at has psychiatrist on site? They might be a bit more forthcoming with what ds needs, if they do not have to burden the cost?

I wouldn't say it like that, but yes to asking them:

'should I be looking ideally for a school with onsite or easy access to a psych?'

AtoZandbackagain Fri 11-Jan-13 11:24:03

Shopping & Claw

To eventually get back son back into school after a year out while he was just too anxious to be in school at all (and I will not use the term 'school phobia' as Ithink it's ridiculous) the one thing you'll find that the child needs is a huge amount of reassurance and practical support. In DS's case we:

Met his course tutor to explain his difficulties (FE setting)
Had neetings with the College Leaning Support team to get their workers involved
DS had a support worker with him throughout the school day (and before and after) i.e. 1:1 support. DS was still unable to sit through many of the lessons and would have to leave for a break.

This 1:1 support continued throughout Fe and into the full 3 years he spent at Uni.

The point I'm making is don't underestimate how difficult it will be to reassimilate him (and my DS was not even self-harming). It's not a matter of the LA suggesting a differnet school and the tutor hanging around for a bit to provide some initial assurance. It will be a long haul.

Sorry but that's my view based on my DS's experiences and of the other ASD students I also saw.

You should be looking for a spacilaist placement with on-site psychiological support.

claw2 Fri 11-Jan-13 12:17:45

Thanks A-Z and Star.

That is exactly what im looking at A-Z, obviously the LA are thinking HT, then hang about for a bit.

The school i have looked at has psych on site, as well as OT and SALT.

claw2 Fri 11-Jan-13 21:42:31

CAMHS phoned today, apparently if i want the referral to Medical Needs, all i have to do is say and they will get Senior Pysch to sign it. So all this Senior Pysch is the only person who can assess and sign off is rubbish. Referral will be ready for me on Monday.

Sw came too today, to say 'goodbye', she still doesnt know the team or the name of SW. Apparently i was her first 'job', she is new to the borough and doesnt know how it works!

She has been asked to provide info for SA and wants to send me a copy first, so i can see what she is saying about me. Im assuming she needs my consent to share info about me? hence she wants me to see it, without telling me she needs my consent and the fact i have seen it, will be my consent, unless i say otherwise?

'Apparently i was her first 'job', she is new to the borough and doesnt know how it works!'

Good grief! Suppose that is the closest thing you'll get to an apology. Hope she's been on a steep learning curve at your expense and is more careful in future.

AgnesDiPesto Fri 11-Jan-13 22:03:54

Claw by asking for SA you have consented (as far as i understand it) to them getting evidence from any of the services involved (see SENCOP for list). They write to social care in every SA and social care then reply saying they are or are not involved & if involved give report.

Usually I think when you apply for SA the SEN team get you to sign something then which then covers them to collect evidence from NHS, social care, school etc.

There is a duty on the services to reply for a request for report as part of SA.

Be prepared for everyone only to advise on their area - and not on education at all - so Paed, SLT, psych etc who were supportive (initially at least) were prevented by LA by giving views on education and were only allowed to give views on medical, SLT, psych needs etc respectively. Which was very frustrating even when we asked profs to give their views we were told they were not allowed to! Only EP was allowed to give view on education for DS.

claw2 Fri 11-Jan-13 22:18:03

Surely its SA, she should be reporting on ds, not me?

She has already warned me 'you are not going to like it'

and that everyone at the first meeting wasnt aware of the difficulties ds and i was experiencing because i didnt turn up!

hmm Ds told her himself, thats why she sent him to A&E, I gave her and CAMHS weekly updates in writing. I meet with the EWO the day before the meeting and told her, gave her copies of everything. They all had a copy of GP medical certificate stating he wasnt fit to attend and saw the pictures he had drawn a few days before, i emailed them to her.

I didnt turn up because ds was trying to throw himself out of a window, due to EWO visit the day before and talk of school, i emailed them all telling them that.

Ds refused to speak her at all on this visit, he sat with his face 3 inches from his ipod, meowing and hissing at her. I think he said it all!

I had his escape ready this time as well, he was just on his way out the door with his brother and i got my older ds to stand there waiting for him, while she spoke to him.

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