Anyone else feeling annoyed by the Aspergers connection

[Eliza22]

.... With the recent tragic shootings in Conneticut? Adam Lanza was thought to have undiagnosed Aspergers. He was a socially isolated child. A near outcast at school. Norwegian, Anders Brejvic was also thought to be on the spectrum.

I read The Times stories this morning and just felt very nervous at the way they kept going back to the autism / Aspergers connection.

Anyone else?

[ilikemysleep]

Well, I think it's a good argument to say, that our children will know that they are on the spectrum and will therefore understand why they feel different. They will, I hope, not rage against a society that they cannot understand why they do not fit in. Hopefully they will engender a little more empathy in peers who will know that he is not just 'weird' , but he is on the spectrum.

I think that there is a minor connection between able undiagnosed autistic angry young men who do not have social understanding - but don't understand that they don't have social understanding - who are very intelligent in one way, but very vulnerable in other ways - who have never received appropriate help but have been labelled 'weird' or 'a freak' and rejected by peers becoming angry against society. Thankfully, the number of those vulnerable young people who actually do this kind of thing is very very tiny.

[Jerbil]

Yes absolutely. The fact they do not have the facts and are throwing diagnosis around and picking it up and using it is despicable.

My thoughts are with those affected by this first and foremost.

When I think of the longer term effects of The link with Aspergers it's not good. DS1 was diagnosed with Aspergers in May.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

I absolutely agree. It is too easy to connect 'loner' to 'misfit' to 'dangerous' and see Asperger's as the connection between them.

I used to take great exception on the Early Bird Plus course to the constant description of 'these children' as having 'no empathy' or 'no understanding of emotions' . This was in the printed material too. From the NAS no less.

It made children sound like psychopaths.

[mariammama]

According to the Telegraph, his mum seems to have ended up homeschooling him after the education district wouldn't accept that mainstream high school wasn't meeting his needs... so whether he had ASD too, or 'just' personality disorder with a dash of mental illness and violent tendencies, it seems like his mum had been fruitlessly asking for help for a long time.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Ilike- what evidence is there to say he was 'rejected' or that he was unaware of his ASD diagnosis if he had one or that her was any link between autism and this crime?

Further, what evidence is there, however small, that here is. Connection between acts of violence and 'able undiagnosed autistic angry young men'?

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Apologies for typos - stupid iPad!

[ilikemysleep]

Hi inappropriately

I think this guy, from the very tiny amount of info I have seen, was more invisible than rejected. He barely spoke to anyone in school. No photo in the yearbook. His own brother hadn't been in touch with him since 2010. He lived with his mother who homeschooled him after becoming dissatisfied with education services. Though I think he was diagnosed, if what his brother said or what it was reported he said was accurate. I don't necessarily think there is any direct link between autism and this crime. however autistic people are sadly more likely to have depression etc than other NT people, and can become arrogant 'superior beings' - these are two of the coping styles Attwood describes in people with aspergers who are not supported. The guy who is doing a lot of work with those who have committed crimes (not necessarily violent crimes) who turn out to be autistic - I can't think of his name - it's Tommy someone...I will try to let you know when I find it.

By getting our kids diagnosed and letting them know their diagnosis and supporting them, we are absolutely minimising the risks of any offending behaviour (and that risk was probably very low anyway. But no-one, whether they parent a autistic or NT child, can swear that they will never err on to the wrong side of the law).

[mariammama]

There's an open access of a couple of articles with case studies, This and this look interesting, but are pay-per-view: anyone fancy reviewing and commenting who has got a login permit via their work?

[ilikemysleep]

I should say, I don't think autistic people are any more likely to commit violent crimes than anyone else. I just don't think it would be right to say they never would, either.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

I'm sorry but there is no evidence to link his violence to his autism, which as you now accept, was probably diagnosed.

So, I'm not sure what your point is. To pat ourselves on the back for having our children diagnosed? How bizarre. This boy was clearly diagnosed but he was also very clearly very seriously mentally ill.

None of us know the facts or are in a position to judge or make wild pronouncements. But easy judgments on links between "undiagnosed angry autistic young men" and violence are not helpful.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Who on earth is saying an autistic person would never commit a crime?

[ilikemysleep]

Hi
It's Tommy MacKay

Some of his info is on the NAS website from a conference earlier this year
www.autism.org.uk/conferences/professional2012

[WeWilsonAMerryChristmas]

I saw this on another thread (paraphrased): if he was black he'd be a gangster, if he was brown he'd be a terrorist. But because he's a white male the media have to ascribe his motivation to something other - whether that's Aspergers, ASD or mental illness.

Made a lot of sense to me. At this moment in time, we don't know very much about the shooter, but conflating his actions with Aspergers is disturbing, definitely.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

What's Tommy Mackay? Sorry I don't know what it is you are trying to say and why you think your initial undiagnosed angry autistic man argument has any relevance here?

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Thant link is to a power point which just highlights how people with autism can have problems when they are caught up in th criminal justice system. Much of it is to do with helping them with 'appropriate adults' and understanding the cautions etc - as a former criminal lawyer I understand this vulnerability too well.

I don't see that it says anything about a propensity to violence or conflates undiagnosed autism with excessive violent killi sprees,

We are talking about a rare act of exceptional violence here. The work of a profoundly mentally ill person.

[ilikemysleep]

Inappropriately

I didn't say that undiagnosed angry autistic young men might commit crimes, I said they can get angry at society. I said that very very few of them do anything about it.

In my later post, When I said 'they never would', I wasn't saying they would never commit a crime, I am saying it's not right to say they never would commit a violent crime. People who are, and who are not, autistic do commit violent crimes.

I also don't like people making links like this, I also get uncomfortable. However, yes I am bloody pleased that I have helped my son understand who he is by having him diagnosed, sharing that information with him, and helping him develop his skills in a way that, since his diagnosis, he had handled much more positively and less defensively. How on earth is that bizarre? I still don't know if he will get angry at society, but I hope it's less likely.

I wasn't trying in my original post to comment directly on Adam Lanza or Anders Brevik. You asked me a direct question later so I answered it as best I could.

[ilikemysleep]

If you look further in you will see that there is a couple of slides about risk.

I am off to bed now.

[shutupaboutstarwars]

I'm not sure what the media are trying to say but with my ds1 was diagnosed as high functioioning autism spectrum disorder in the last week I have been spending an unhealthy amount of time on the internet this week.
are the media really trying to link ASD with mass shootings? as if so with the increasing ASD dianoses over the last few years, particularly in America, then there is going to be a problem in years to come.
I am waiting to see what the offical reports say but that will take time.
I feel certain that they wil;l make some comment about his mental health, but do not expect ASD to be the main issue behind the shootings.
thinkprogress.org/health/2012/12/14/1338021/its-easier-for-americans-to-access-guns-than-mental-health-services/?mobile=nc

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Slides about risk. Risk of what? The risk of vulnerable people (not necessarily men) offending or being disadvantaged in the criminal justice system? Of course the link between vulnerability and offending exists - that's nothing new. Prisons are full of our most vulnerable people. But that has nothing to do with a conflation of Asperger's and extreme violence which is what this thread is about.

YOU made the link in your first post between these 'angry undiagnosed autistic young men' who are 'angry at society' and 'a number of those vulnerable young men who do this kind if thing' on a thread which is about a person who has murdered nearly thirty people. I asked you how you made this connection and on what evidence. You've directed me to slides about vulnerable offenders and the criminal justice system.

This 'evidence' has nothing to do with your argument that 'undiagnosed angry autistics' taking out their anger on society even if the connection with wanton acts of violence, as you allege, is 'minor'.

[coff33andmintspies]

Life itself can push someone over the edge to commit crime, suicide, drugs, drink, life of divorces, being jack the lad to fit in with the crowd none of it means that a particular person has AS or an ASD.

I used to get riled when I read things in the papers. A long while ago there was a piece in our local paper titled AS man looked at child porn in a library. It was mentioned quite a bit in that little bit of news. It gave the impression that if you had AS then oh yeah this is what you do.

Now I shrug a lot off. I dont spend my life helping my son not to be "angry at society" I help teach him right from wrong just like my NT children. Who knows what DS will do when he is older or my others or me come to that lol

Over here its knife crime that is more rife, over there its guns because everyone has one. Here suicide is probably higher for our pushed over the edge folk than murder.

I have learnt to treat what I read as small town gossip and supposition the only one who knows why is the person that pulled the trigger.

[rabbitstew]

What makes me angry is the reporting of this man in a way that implies having aspergers and having a personality disorder are one and the same thing, since both have been attributed to him in a very confused way by lazy, inadequate reporters...

[ilikemysleep]

I think I explained myself very poorly last night. I am just on the way out of norovirus.

In my first post I was responding not only to the OP but I think I was adding in my response to that awful 'I am Adam Lanza's mother' post that flooded my facebook yesterday, and to friends with aspergers children one of whom was v angry about the asperger connection and another who thinks her son is capable of such an act.

I was not saying that yes these two guys committed their horrific crimes because they are autistic and we must all go wring our hands. I agree that making this sort of lazy journalistic connection is sloppy and an act of oppression against an already vulnerable group of people. It worries me.

I was saying that if there is any kind of link between being on the spectrum and criminality of any sort, then those of us with diagnosed children who are accessing support and supporting our children are further protecting them from being one of these statistics. I don't go through my life parenting my son thinking 'this social story will stop him committing a crime', it's just that the very act of supporting him to be an active and productive member of society is protective. And as someone else says, that's no different from what I do with my NT children. I was trying to be reassuring because I think I misunderstood the OP's angle and was conflating it with my friend who is worried that her son may end up in t he criminal justic system because she is struggling so much with his behaviour.

Inappropriatelyemployed asked me specifically to give her evidence 'however small' of a link between acts of violence and undiagnosed men. I told her the person who has done this work is Tommy someone ,but forgot his full name and came back with it - Tommy Mackay - a few mins later. The only info I could find at that time was slides from a presentation. The majority of slides in this talk about how vulnerable people with autism are in the criminal justice system, which of course none of us would disagree with. In the actual lecture (which I attended and which is where I got my info about a link from) he was saying that the vast majority of these men are undiagnosed and referred to him because they have come into the criminal justice system, and they need support. There is also a slide in the link called 'behaviour in the community' which talks about some risk factors in this population which is the link she was asking for 'however small' about this group.

I'm sorry if I poorly explained myself.

[Eliza22]

Yes, I have one child. He has ASD and OCD. He's a gentle soul but time was, when he around 9 or so, he got very angry (not violent) at other kids calling him weird. He's 12 now and has matured amazingly over the past few years. He knows he's different.

He has one friend who he has a great time with and when we're out and about, other kids always come over to say hello BUT.... He IS socially isolated, despite our efforts to encourage peer group friendships.

I think Adam Lanza's mum did try to "sort" her son's needs within the education system. Sounds like she had little support and felt the need to home school her son. Of course, we don't know the whole story.

What I don't like is the suggestion by the media, when they DON'T KNOW THE FULL FACTS, that this 20 yr old man was THOUGHT to have Aspergers-like features. They also mention schizophrenia. Anders Brejvic was a monster who was politically driven but again, they relate his personality type to some perceived Aspergers-LIKE tendencies. Until they can say for sure, I think it's wrong to SUGGEST a link. Our kids and young adults on the spectrum find everyday life and "fitting in" hard enough without the "crazy gun toting maniac" association.