Have just spent the past ten minutes reading chunks of this thread going 'that's just like dd', 'yes, me too', etc etc. This is a very useful (i.e. supportive) thread.

We go through a two-hour night waking cycle these days. DD can even manage waking almost to the minute (10.20/12.20/2.20 etc). I've been feeding her to sleep each time as it works very quickly and I can do it half-asleep. But it does mean picking her up loads of times from 7pm to 7am. It got so much that I fell asleep this afternoon for an hour (thankfully DH was on hand to take over baby duties). I never nap!

Has anyone worked out which of the following is a better approach - 1. feed more during the day so they wont need fed at night (DD does seem hungry when she wakes), or 2. feed less frequently during day and baby will require feeding less frequently at night ???

Oh thats reassuring dinky I think dd is going through her 6 month growth spurt at the moment. She was feeding 2 hourly last night and lots yesterday and today as well as being really mardy.

Thank god for light at the end of the tunnel - though I hope she settles before she is 3!

Glad you had a better night with your ds - perhaps you won't need the 6 month thread either!

Thanks Hulla - last night was a better night in that Danny only woke three times so feeling bit happier about life today. Thanks for letting me know that about growth spurts - I just remember DS1's 6 month growth spurt being the killer and then after that didnt have any real problems with night feeds with him as he got his sleeping sorted shortly after that spurt. DS1 was a high need baby so I feel your pain there - though now he's a funny independent sociable 3 year old, so there is light at the end of the tunnel! Danny is generally a chilled baby - which is why his night time antics are such a shock to me.

dinky have a look here growth spurts go on a while longer than 6 months. Its obviously up to you but my view wrt dd is that if it gets her back to sleep/keeps her asleep then I'm all for carrying on . I don't know how else I'd settle her (one trick pony me).

I read the other thread but didn't add anything. As I have posted here, we co-sleep. I read a few books about infant development and co-sleeping and found them really eye-opening. I adjusted my expectations about dd and decided to co-sleep full time. It has made a world of difference for us. It took a while to get used to it but I now love it. I used to check dd was breathing about 5 times a night [neurotic emoticon] - that was part of the reason I was so bloody tired.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that I was very anti-co-sleeping (rod for your back etc etc) but in the end it was what my dd needed. She now sleeps-through in that she doesn't really wake to feed, she does it in her sleep. Yes, it disturbs my sleep but nothing like getting her out of her moses basket/cot and sitting up feeding her and then putting her back.

It didn't work for me when I was doing it part time and I had to give it a week or so before I could fully relax and sleep well. I am only sharing this as another option. I would read about co-sleeping and think "but I can't do it and what if she's in bed with us forever?" but actually I can and she won't! I hate to hear of mums feeling sleep-deprived and crap (read back through this, I was HullabaLulu, I joined this thread exhausted). Now I feel like me again and dh and I get to spend our evenings together rather than me dashing off to bed as soon as dd fell asleep (6pm!).

I moan post on MN about other things now <skulks back to the high needs baby thread>

Hello all - posted on this thread ages ago. Hope everyone's sleeping is getting better. My Daniel (DS2) is now 5 and abit months - and while his sleep did get better for a while, it has got worse again - for the past couple of weeks at nights he has been waking every 1.5 to 2 hours through the night. Even when I try to co-sleep with him. I know that he CAN put himself to sleep - as he does at the start of the night and for his day time naps - but for some reason he just doesnt want to at nighttimes when he wakes up from sleep. Am v bleary eyed - particularly as am home alone with Danny and DS1 this week as DH is away on a climbing break. To be honest, I cant wait till Danny is 6 months so I can start moving away from night time feeds (the only thing that seems to be able to put him back to sleep at nights) as I know he'll be over his growth spurts by then...

Hello ladies. Can I join this thread? Founds Mumsnet after desperately googling "4 month baby sleep patterns change" after my wee boy (nearly 20 weeks) went from sleeping 8hrs and only waking twice in the night to waking every 2 hours in the dot. He's bf but isn't hungry most of the times he wakes up, just wants the magic boob of sleep but wakes up whenever I try to put him in his cot again. Co sleeping doesn't work for us - DS just gets really excited we're all there and wants to play. Also he's an incredibly grunty wriggly baby and it was a disaster for us all. Putting him in his cot in his wee room next to ours with all doors open had seemed the perfect solution until this crazy regression thing started. Ah well. *bean 612* on another thread (about considering cc as a last desperate resort - whole other story...) suggested this thread to me. Feel as if I'm going a bit mad with sleep deprivation. Thought this Bad Time had all ended a month ago. Not so.

Anyway. How are things with youse? Read the whole thread at various points last night and managed my first chuckle in weeks. Thank you all

DanielBumpsMummy my DH is from Manchester (the best city in the world apparently!).

I have kind of left this thread. We are full time co-sleeping and DH now only wakes maybe twice a night? I'm not sure because I tend to let her latch on while I am half asleep so I am never quite sure.

What I am trying to say is that while she isn't sleeping through sleep isn't a problem anymore since I stopped fighting it and brought her into bed .

I'm glad DanielBumps nighttimes have improved. Naps have gone out the window here a bit until recently. I'm going with the flow!

superd did you ever go ahead and talk to that sleep trainer? Did she fix everything?

Daniel Bump's naps getting worse....I don't think I can even bring myslef to talk about it . Poor thing is so tired all day........but then refuses to nap.

I'm still here - here for me is in New Jersey, USA. I'm originally from sunny Manchester so its properly nice to read english english instead of american english!!

Anyhoo I am not saying anything about DanielBump's night time sleeping incase he reads this and goes back to the old routine ifkwim.

However, day time sleep still coming in 40 minute naps - sometiumes I catch him at the right time and he goes peacefully and sometimes there is a full on tantrum . Usually he takes 4-5 naps a day - up down up dpwn!! Last 2 days have been a bit weird - he's been dribbling like a fountain so I think the teeth are the culprit. he is currently refusing to nap despite being v tired

Fret not hulla... we're all here somewhere...
Not much to report here, at least no progress anyway, and to add to the misery, his naps are well and truly in disarray, which then contributes to his night sleep. On a bright note, I'm at my parents at the moment and we have relatives over, so I'm not alone and manage to get some time to myself in the day which is excellent.
I've done some serious thinking about DS sleeping and am beginning to feel that its gone way past the point where I can do anything to improve the situation. If anything, I think I aggravate things more than anything else and have nowhere near the energy or the bottle required to do any sleep training myself. Soooo, I actually spoke to a sleep trainer this week and am seriously considering having some professional help. Yes... I know... I'm a pathetic wimp . I just don't know what else to do.
On another note, DS is exactly 6 months old today which means that my days on this thread are over and its time to haul my sleep deprived backside off to the 6 month thread. Can't say that its exactly where I wanted to be at this stage, but oh well... perhaps (although hopefully not ), I'll catch a few of you on there soon. In the meantime, good luck with your little ones and thanks for everything!

I always kill this thread....

Hey superd! Hi everyone!

Sorry I've been quiet, I have been ill/busy/had nothing to report.

I have resigned myself (and am quite enjoying so far) a few years of co-sleeping. I feel so much better but I don't know how often dd nurses or wakes anymore. It feels better/less.

Daytime naps are a nightmare though. She gets hysterical but fights sleep for hours.

Jackie my dd is 22 weeks and is exactly the same as your dd - won't nap/short naps (even on my knee now), easily bored, wants entertaining constantly but gets bored with me very quickly. Its exhausting. She's trying to sit up from lying down at the moment and its frustrating her. Everytime I lie her down she does little stomach crunches trying to get back up!

We're going away next week so we'll continue with the bedsharing but try and get dh back in!

Anyway, how are you all? No one else revealed where in the world they are...just me then...

Hello?
Where is everyone?

Just a quick post as I am on my way out but welcome Jackie21. I'll reply more later or tomorrow but it sounds to me like you'll fit right in

Hi everyone !! What a good post, my DD is 19 weeks now and for the passed 3 weeks she has dropped her naps in the day from 2 - 2 1/2 hours to now 40minutes or less !! Her day normally starts about 7.30am - 8am and she stays up for approx 2 hours before her nap, then wakes up after 40mins ! When i go up to see her sometimes she is still so tired looking in the eyes that i try and sshhh her back to sleep and play a little music which she likes but all fails miserably as she will fall asleep then wake up 5 minutes later. Other times i go up and she is full of smiles.

Shes not waking up because of hunger as ive tried giving her another bottle (she is ff). Really i shouldnt be complaining as she has been sleeping through the night since 9 weeks although do have to get up 2-3 times a night to wind her or give the dumy. She is a diamond to put to bed as she doesnt need rocked or anything, she just likes her little musical glow worm on for a bit then she lies and humms herself to sleep which is very cute !

I just am at a loss at what to do during the day time because when i get her up after her 40mins she is still tired and i think there is something stopping her from staying asleep and dont have a clue what it is !! She does have really bad wind and has done since she was born so i just assume it is that but there its weird how she went from 2 hours naps to 40mins so quickly !! I always have to try and get her to back to sleep before her next feed as wont drink her bottle is she is too tired !!

Its also really hard to keep her amused as she dont really like toys, she likes her rattle but gets bored really quick, hates to lie down and have a kick about, she onlly likes to sit on someones knee and look about which she does get bored of.

I dont really know if a qualify to join as not completely sleep deprived, i am just tired of the her not sleeping and having to keep going up and down stairs and having not alot of time to myself!!

Oh she has also just started teething just now aswell, very drooly and wants to chew everything !!

Hey superd, oh that sounds rubbish. Our co-sleeping arrangement means I am getting up less but dd seems to be latched on all night. I keep saying to dh that I feel like I am just surviving. I saw a friend on Thursday and her ds is sleeping through (ff though) and she just can't understand my dd's behaviour. Having said that, most of the mums I know in RL with babies near dd's age have all done cio (not even cc!) and I won't leave dd to cry so perhaps thats why their babies don't disturb them at night?

Oh and my dh thinks I am crackers when I talk about "this woman on MN....". He actually laughs - like its all not real.

We are in Leeds, very real, very sleep deprived (although if I am a figment of your imagination could I have a bit more sleep please?).

How old is BabySuperd now? My dd is 21 weeks on Tuesday.

It was our anniversary yesterday so we were out and about in the car for quite a while meaning dd had 3 naps in the carseat. She usually has a meltdown in the carseat and I stroke her hair until she falls asleep (I always sit in the back while dh drives) but yesterday she just closed her eyes and fell asleep - 3 TIMES. She has never done that. I am taking it as a positive sign.

Ok, I have fed dd and now I am going back to bed.

Morning everyone else, hope you all had a good night

Hello kiwi, hello hulla, hi everyone...
Haven't posted for a while... Wish I could say it is because things are better because frankly they couldn't be more pants, and I've moved into extreme low battery mode where only tasks essential for basic survival are managed. We're also going on "holiday" tomorrow morning and planning for that has been a nightmare.
But I digress.. Can I just ask where you all are in real life? I just need reassurance that you do all actually exist and are not just a figment of my sleep-deprived imagination. Seriously... when I tell other mothers (of both older and younger babies) about the horror that has become every night chez nous, I just get confused looks. Anyone else get that?

Welcome rosycheeks81, 4 months seems to be a perculiar time. Pull up a seat and join in the chat. I find whinging on here really helps!

this thread has made me feel so much better! just posted my own woes on the board but seems like terrible sleep is a 4mo thing? poor us all going through this! x

Hi eggybrokenoff, welcome! I don't think weaning helps (although everyone says it). My friend weaned at 4 months because she thought her milk was no longer enough and found her dd woke more.

Milk has more calories than mushed up carrot or baby rice anyway so it makes sense to stick with it. I know the feeling though! It seems they have a big developmental leap at 4 months and it goes on a while which is which is why this is such a killer. Hang in there, we'll get through it together! My dd is almost 21 weeks and we now co-sleep all night and she just latches on when she needs to. Its tiring but less than getting up 6 times+ a night to feed/settle her.

Do you have a routine? Where does your ds sleep?

Hi DanielBumpsMummy BLW is Baby Led Weaning. Another MNer runs a site dedicated to it which explains all. In a nutshell, at 6 months when baby is ready for solids you just give them what you would have - no purees, no mush. Well, there are few other rules to it. See here

and here

What is BLW?

Hi all can I join?

I'm so tired today i feel like passing out. My DS is 19 weeks, and went through a phase of being a great sleeper - down at 7, awake once around 3, up 6.30. Now it's all gone horribly wrong! waking at least every two hours, needing feeding back to sleep, no self settling at all - nightmare. the breastfeeding counsellor said this was common at 4 months - a growth spurt and it would pass. everyone else is saying he needs solids, which I'm trying to resist but to be honest if giving him a cheeseburger would guarantee sleep I'd probably crack after a few more nights of this!

Oh Kiwi that's brilliant news!! Happy 6 months to BabyKiwi! I hope it continues and I'll see you around the more fun boards (BLW starts in 5 weeks for us, you'll be an expert by then!)

Thanks Hullabalulu! I hope I won't see you there, if you see what I mean!

Last night was pretty good actually. We moved DD into the spare room - wasn't really planning to but our boiler broke [oh-god-that'll-be-expensive emoticon] so I had to move her cot out of the room so the plumber could access airing cupboard. Wow this story if fascinating isn't it?? Anyway, I couldn't be bothered to move it back and it worked quite well. She slept from 7 to nearly 2 which is the best EVER (seven hours!!) fed, woke again at 5.30, fed, went back to sleep and was up chatting away to herself cutely at 7.15.
It was also really really nice to go to bed with DH and read before turning the light out - felt positively like normal life...! Obviously a bit of a pain going into the other room to feed her but it's only next door so it didn't seem to make me more awake than before.

Sorry, I am rambling for Britain today. Anyway, planning to start BLW AND put DD in her pushchair for the first time tomorrow, all very exciting. Oh, and I'm taking her toy shopping and letting her chose what she likes

Good luck Kiwi! I hope you get lots of good tips from the 6 month thread. See you in a month.

My dd has started the howling thing. I put her down last night, she was in a really deep sleep but within about 10 minutes she was screaming. I thought she must have been in pain but when I picked her up her arms were all floppy and her eyes were shut - she was still asleep.

So the not-co-sleeping didn't go well. She slept in the crook of my arm and even though she fed every 2 hours but I feel normal today.

I'm going out now so babyHulla will spend most of the day in the sling. I hope that means she'll nap well and not have a crying fit in the shop!

Hope you had a good night Kiwi

Hey guys, just dropping by to say hello. Wish I could say BabyKiwi has made huge improvements but err... she hasn't. We were down to two night feeds (which is good) but last night was grim, about 5 wake ups and howling miserably at various points that I'm too tired to remember. My day started at 4.30am Hullabalulu she's also terrible at naptime at the moment (unless I'm carrying her in BabyBjorn). Grim.

Am off to bed now... DD is 6 months on Friday so tomorrow will be my last day on this thread before graduating to 6 month sleep deprivation hell

Thanks HullabaLulu - will definite scroll back through the thread to find some happy endings. I know it will come to an end at some point - the crucial question is when though. Its so frustrating that he knows how to put himself to sleep but for whatever reason wont do it at night. Moving your DD to a cot in your room sounds like a good first step - its what friends of mine did when they were trying to phase out the co-sleeping so their DD started the night off in the cot and then was brought into their bed later and later on until over time she was in the cot all night and being shushed back to sleep if need be by her parents from their bed. Fingers crossed it works for you.

Welcome dinkystinky, you definately qualify! It's dreadful isn't it? I know it feels like its forever but if you read back through some of the posts you can see how things improve for some posters (I think Feralgirl went from multiple wakings to just one).

I hoped we were seeing improvements but its as though my dd no longer needs to sleep! Last week dd fell asleep after an hour and a half. Today and yesterday its been 2.5hours and then meltdown, followed by a 20 minute nap.

We co-sleep but even that doesn't seem to help anymore. We had party time at 3am and she was awake so often, crying until I sat up and put her on my shoulder. She'd instantly fall back asleep. I am so tired this morning I've cried!

I won't get a chance to nap either because I have a hospital appointment at around the time of dd's longest nap.

I'm thinking of putting DD in her cot but in our room. Putting her in her own room isn't an option while she's waking 5+ times a night.

Morning all - please can I join you in your sleep deprived club? DS2 is now 4 and a half months and used to be a lovely little sleeper - putting self to sleep, self settling, only waking for a feed a couple of times a night from only around 4 or 5 weeks old. However in the last 4 weeks it has all gone to pot - he's sleeping ok during the daytime (3 or 4 40 minute naps or 2 longer naps and one little 20 min cat nap, depending on how he feels that day) and settles himself to sleep at bedtime (between 6.30 and 7) BUT wakes up anytime between 4 and 6 hours after being put down to bed and then just will not go back to sleep properly! I feed him, I co-sleep, I semi-swaddle (so he has an arm out to suck on), I shush and repeat sequence ad infinitum - but nothing works with my adorable little insomniac who feels the need to party for 3 hours every night, doze on me for a couple of hours then start his day at 5am. Its a killer. I vaguely (through sleep deprived haze) remember going through a similar thing with DS1 at around 4 months - but at least he'd be fed to sleep and stay asleep - but this pesky DS2 isnt having any of that. He's now dozing happily upstairs for his first nap of the day while I just cant sleep at this time of the day or I end up feeling totally and utterly jetlagged. We're moving him to his own room this weekend purely to put some distance between me and the all night party which makes me feel really guilty but neither I nor DH will be able to function if things continue like this for another month - which they're showing every sign of doing. Gosh, feels much better offloading that.

MM, hopefully then it's just a phase. Will she earlier/better if she is in bed with you? I know 4 months and 4 years aren't quite the same but this has helped me to get more sleep.

Sorry I'm not much help am I?

My DD's naps have gone out of the window today. 30 mins has been her longest and she's in an awful mood... looking forward to tonight

Hulu I saw that programme, and the thing is DD has never been like this its only really the past week she has been like it.

She has a routine, which is dinner, bath and then bed (skipped bath tonight due to dinner running late for other reasons). she has a story and bedtime and usually takes a teddy or something to snuggle into at bedtime. normally she would sleep from 7pm -7:30am, but the past week is awake from usual time of 7:30am but not going to sleep till very late and still waking up full of energy. I wonder where she gets it from!
Its not helping me at the moment being unwell with various things, so i'm getting tired quite easily at the moment, had a blood test to check my HCG levels as doc and I suspect i'm preggers which is so not the right time for me but we will see.

So don't know what to do for the best?

Hulu I saw that programme, and the thing is DD has never been like this its only really the past week she has been like it.

She has a routine, which is dinner, bath and then bed (skipped bath tonight due to dinner running late for other reasons). she has a story and bedtime and usually takes a teddy or something to snuggle into at bedtime. normally she would sleep from 7pm -7:30am, but the past week is awake from usual time of 7:30am but not going to sleep till very late and still waking up full of energy. I wonder where she gets it from!
Its not helping me at the moment being unwell with various things, so i'm getting tired quite easily at the moment, had a blood test to check my HCG levels as doc and I suspect i'm preggers which is so not the right time for me but we will see.

So don't know what to do for the best?

Ok, here's my update. DD is settling a lot more easily for naps and bedtime. No idea why but liking it! DH has been kicked onto a mattress on our bedroom floor while DD and I share the kingsize bed. This means I can feed her and then move away and lie on my back for a bit. It helped a lot last night but I am not sure if it constitutes safe co-sleeping so tonight her cot is being moved to our room and we'll take the side off so she has her space and dh can get back into our bed.

I think she did a 3.5 hour stretch last night but it was from 7pm and I stayed up watching TV until 10pm so didn't feel the benefit of it much.

Oh muppetsmuggle, I thought your dd was 4 months . Think the lack of sleep is making me blinkered. There is also a 6 month thread and I think some of them have older dcs do maybe more help. Feel free to stick around here though.

Its easy to imagine that she could be unsettled by everything. Don't you find that things always seem worse at night. I wonder if it's the same for a child?

I read on here about someone who had some success using chocolate coins as a reward in the morning for not getting up. It obviously ddoesn't address the underlying issue but may help?

Does she have a bedtime routine? Bath, story etc? Does she have a teddy that she likes? I saw a programme recently where there was a child who wouldn't go to bed until really late. They brought her bedtime forward gradually and made it all relaxing and calm so that bedtimes weren't stressful. It was on ITV last week, you might still be able to get it on ITV player online (or whatever its called).

DO you think she has clicked on to the fact i'm not well and that there has been a very big family arguement between me and my sister (her aunt)

can I join you even tho DD is 4 now

for some reason or the other she has decided she doesn't want to go to sleep until about midnight - 2am, and promptly waking up at 7:30am full of energy (where she gets it from I really don't know), she gets in and out of bed, constantly calling mummy as she misses me , and is wide awake.

DP has been good by putting her back to bed etc knowing i'm not well at the moment, but I just don't know where all this has come from and tbh DP & I are bloody knackered. she has always slept through from about 1-2months old.

HulabaLuLu I found the same thing when DS came in the bed with us. I tried putting pillows behind me so I could try and lie on a bit of a slope - that helped. I also had a big long pillow from when I was pregnant and putting that behind me helped.

Hey DBM, my dd will only nap on my lap (if rocked or nursed to sleep), lying next to me (if nursed to sleep) or in the sling. Naps have turned into a nightmare though. Screaming fits before everyone. Nighttimes are still shocking but I get lots of sleep if once I put her in with me. The problem is my knees are killing me from being bent for half of the night and my hip and back are so sore. I'd have her in bed with me all night if it wasn't so painful. Does anyone else get this? Does it ease?

I think dd is teething actually. She been in a terrible mood today and yesterday and seems better once she has calpol. I tried to put some dentinox gel on her gums this morning but she just sucked it off my finger!

It's lovely here today so we're going to go out and enjoy the sunshine.

I hope it's quiet on here because you've all been getting plenty of sleep!

Oh dear HulabaLulu that sounds like a tough night - you must be a wreck today!

We are having another no nap day - poor Daniel Bump only know hows to nap for 40 mins at a time. He just went down after a little crying fit - woke up after 15 mins crying! So I put him in his swing...

Anyone elses baby only nap in a swing etc?

naughty babyhullahablulu!

I do hope that tonight gets better for you. Sorry to hear about the operation - fingers crossed all goes well. Enjoy that nights slepe when it comes.

I feel a bit bad - we had another good night last night. I've obviously not realised she was in pain before - oops. The teeth have really been hurting her, but now I'm on top of it we are really seeing her improve. Let's hope that it continues. A slightly later bed time happened last night (9pm) as her daytime naps knocked her out of sync a bit. I'm wondering if that helped? Oh and all hail the pink wonder liquid!!!!

(although why I feel worse after a half decent nights sleep I have no idea!)

hulla, that sounds completely crap. What an awful night... Hope babyhulla has a better one tonight.

Bye traceface, see you around MN.

Hello bumpity and DanielBumpsMummy, I'm relieved that I'll have company on here when the others graduate to the 6 month thread.

Oh we regressed to complete newborn hell last night. dd had her jabs on Tuesday which left her really grumpy that night and yesterday. Then I had a hospital appointment so my mum took us and looked after dd while I had my tests. I could hear dd screaming in the waiting area! She only sees my mum every few weeks and it takes a few days for her to get used to her. We came back to my mums, dd cried at my sister, bil, brothers, step-dad. It was just too much for her I think so I was expecting a bad night but not this bad...are you ready? This is the wakings:

9.30pm, 10.30pm, 11.30pm, 1am, 3.30am, 4.30am (into bed with me) up for the day at 6.15am. I text dh the times this morning and he replied "Isn't that the timetable for the 508?".

The results of my test mean I probably have to have an operation and my first thought was "ooh, full nights sleep in hospital" .

So fingers crossed that she has a two hour nap because I need to sleep today!

Hope you all had a better night that me (I challenge anyone to have worse )

... I was right, didn't last. Sigh. Yawn.

kiwi, be positive!

Another good night actually superd! won't last though... She went to bed at 7 as usual, fed at 11, again at 3 and then slept through till 7.30!!! But despite her only waking me twice DH managed to wake me up THREE times... 34 and he still can't self-settle.. ;)

All this good sleeping is, I think, cos I've given up the battle to get her to sleep on her back. She just flips right over again and is clearly far happier like that ...

Bye Traceface, we'll be on the 6 month thread in about 3 weeks...

New people! Hello Bumpity and dbm*!

*Kiwi... DS regularly wakes up bright eyed and bushy tailed at <<vomit emoticon>> 5am. As far as sleep problems go, I think we have the complete set chez nous . Anyway... How was babykiwi last night?

Hello Bumpity and Danielbumpsmummy! Welcome to sleep deprivation corner ;) You are most certainly not alone. Actually, I was talking with my NCT friends today and bizarrely ended up feeling quite lucky - lots of their babies sleep well from, for example, 7 to 3am but then wake up to start the day at 5am and will NOT sleep any more.

Danielbumpsmummy Naptimes are like that every day for us. Unless I walk her in pushchair when she'll sleep fine (though not always for that long) I usually end up feeding her to sleep after she has a strop. Sigh... still, at least she's getting better at night - for now [does-not-want-to-count-chickens emoticon]

Traceface - see you on the 6 month thread in about 10 days!!

Danielbumpsmummy - that's how I found this thread too! It's horrible to feel like you are going backwards, and reassuring to know that it's normal :D

I found this message board when frantically searching the tinternet with "why won't my 4 month old nap?"............I spent yesterday reading everyone's posts and now feel better that it is not my questionable mothering skills that are causing the problem

My DS is 17 weeks old and naps for 40 mins at a time. Sometimes he wakes up happy and smiley and sometimes he wakes up like someone is trying to pull his leg off. Sometimes he goes down with no fuss and sometimes we get 20 mins of hysterics beforehand.

Also I live in the US so it was doubly nice to read proper english english.....

kiwi I forgot to say - eczema wise we have found success with Epaderm (on prescription). We had rubbish results from E45, and diprobase and an allergic reaction to doublebase, but Epaderm really suits her skin and makes her much betetr

morning!
Well as dd2 turns 6 months tomorrow I guess this is my last day on this thread! We had another night of waking every 1.5 to 2 hours - but she's still under the weather so that might explain it!
Kiwi - dd2 is also objecting to being dressed at the moment - she used to love it and now she screams when the vest approaches!

hello everyone - hullabaloo invited me over! it's reassuring to see i'm not alone!

i've gone from a DD sleeping 2-3hrs at lunchtime and 8-10hrsv at night straight, to daytime naps of 40mins, all evening waking after 45mins and if I get a 3hr stretch at night i'm lucky!

she's def teething and with teething relief and calpol due to her jabs we had a good night last night - but i'm terrified of it all going pearshaped tonight. it's really effectung DH and me! I'm so snappy with him when i haven't had much sleep.

Thanks for the support kiwi... Yes... "naptime" has become a glamourous term what what is essentially a 20 minute kip, accompanied on both ends by epic tantrums . Just enough time to go to the loo, make a cup of tea (but not drink it) and reflect on the comedy that is my childrearing experience...
Am thinking of trying <<pauses for dramatic effect>>... ... a bottle tonight.
<<cradles head in hands, then runs away and hides>>

ps naps are a disaster with us too unless they happen to coincide with need for a feed, in which case I can sometimes feed her to sleep. Otherwise, it's drama, crying and trauma all round

Superd Avoid all books/sites/people that tell you what they should be doing!! I have learnt that lesson....! I'm sure BabyKiwi will be up every 2 hours tonight anyway...

I know there's a lot of pressure for early weaning but if you are sticking out for the 6 months then hold out. The truth is that a bit of puree (if you go that route) or chewing on a bit of carrot (if you do BLW) is hardly going to provide so many extra calories that the need for milk is cut - it's still their primary food for months yet. Sounds like maybe a growth spurt? There is definitely "supposed" to be one around this time - people say 6 months but usually it's multiples of 3 - 3,6,12 and therefore 24 weeks, give or take...

Hello everyone,
Lucky you kiwi! Hope the little one keeps it up!
Here, things are getting steadily worse... The night wakings are continuing, naps are a total disaster and he's gone from being happy little ray of sunshine to the most whiny, clingy, grumpy so and so ever. It's like baby superd has gone on holiday and left a dodgy replacement.
He's not even 23 weeks yet and I'm agonising over whether to start him on solids. He's crying for milk every 1-2 hours now and I'm so exhausted, I can barely keep up (insert knackered emoticon here). Everyone around me is advising me to wean, but with the current guideline of 26 weeks... I'm completely confused. As if I needed another reason to lose sleep...
So here's something that made me laugh (read: CRY) yesterday... I took a peek at the CLBB yesterday, and at his age, DS should be napping for just under 3 hours in the day and sleeping 7-7 with a feed at 2230...

Bullabalulu Thanks for the info - interesting. She's definitely started to get really annoyed when I change her/ get her dressed recently. Particularly hates me putting her arms in sleeves...! As for sitting.. hmm no chance. She hates it! Hates even being held in a sitting position (which I'm worrying about because I want to start her on BLW in 10 days!) Absolutely loves standing though and will pull herself up to standing if you hold her hands. And she's definitely TRYING to crawl, and getting really frustrated that she doesn't get anywhere. PErhaps I'd better put some dance music on and see if she gets her groove on...

Last night was, well, amazing really. After an incredibly grumpy day and awful night the night before she fed at 7, slept (without waking ONCE!) until 1.30 then slept again until 5.50!! Fed, then slept until 7.45!!

I feel positively normal today. Mind you she'll be back to her old tricks again tonight. She has absolutely no pattern whatsoever and only does these good nights occasionally to tease me...

hmmm more or less the same signs but also Babykiwi won't want to be changed either.

But Babykiwi may also start sitting up from lying down, standing (pulling herself up), crawling after mummy (forget your feet up with a cuppa!), oh this is a nice one: dances to music (sways her tummy).

DD has her last set of jabs for a while today so I imagine she'll sleep all afternoon. I am dreading it (jabs not the sleep!).

Another 4 hour stretch followed by 2-hourly wakings last night. We then had 15 minutes of chatter at 5am when I put her in bed with us and she fell asleep until 6.15am (dh got up, I slept until 8.30am).

I fed her in bed last night but my left nipple was agony I woke up with a jump and had to take her off. Luckily she was asleep and finished so I put her in her Amby. I think I have a blocked duct though so I am off to search breast & bottle feeding for advice....

Hope you all had a good night. Nice to see you back traceface

I would recommend it Kiwi, the number of times DH has come home from work lately and I've said "she's been really whingey and clingy. I don't know whats wrong with her".

The books lists signs that "My Baby Is Growing Again" (left a few out):
- cries more often, bad tempered, cranky or fretful
- wants you to keep him busy
- Wants more physical contact during nursing
- sleeps poorly
- Shy with strangers

My dd developed these almost overnight. Would only feed holding my hand against her cheek, turns away from people she doesn't know and you know about the sleep!

It mentions things she might start doing as part of this leap such as grabbing things, responds to own name, recognises opening bars of a song (Old McDonald is very popular!). It then suggests games to play to help with this leap.

I'll have a look at week 26 for you....

ps you probably haven't had time to read much of it yet but is the Wonder Weeks good? I was wondering whether to buy it. Dunno about you but somehow it helps enormously when they are in a grump to know WHY...

Traceface That's rotten, hope she's better soon. Have you found anything good for the eczema? DD has it too and I've found slathering on Aveeno (sp?) cream helps prevent it, though I can't seem to shift the patch on her back at the moment.

Hullabalulu That's also rotten! It's bad enough when they wake loads to feed, but waking and then not feeding is even worse.. requires more energy! BabyKiwi is much better healthwise but also in a right grump today. Actually she was really odd - mostly super grumpy and refusing to be put down, and then having the occasional random giggle (and she doesn't laugh much so that's quite rare) at me. Very strange! But if it's any consolation, the sunny phase that she's just, apparently, exited, did last a long time and was really wonderful. She would happily play by herself for ages and give me some feet-up-with=cuppa time. Oh how I miss that now...

Hello! Well my silence certainly doesn't mean blissful sleep! DD2 had a very wakeful night, but unusually for her she didn't want feeding every time, she just wanted cuddles and would only settle when I brought her into our bed. Not her normal behaviour at all but I just went with it...anyway today she is covered in a rash and has had an eczema flare up and has only had 1 feed today Poor petal is poorly so she's let off for wanting her night time cuddles Hope everyone's babes are being kind to them. DD2 will be 6 months on Thursday - I think I thought we'd have made some progress by now...

Hey Kiwi, I couldn't face talking about her sleep! DD is in a terrible mood. I bought the Wonder Weeks because it had been stolen from is lost in the library. We are supposed to be heading to sunshine in a few weeks and she is improving (early stretches getting longer - 4 hours last night) but she wakes often after that and just wants to be latched on. Its not a proper latch though, just the nipple and they are so sore.

Oh no, I'll be posting here alone! I have another 7 weeks before I graduate from this thread!

Is Babykiwi better?

How's everyone doing?? Silence for a while on the thread, does that mean blissful sleep or so tired you can't type??

Leaning towards the latter myself - DD has been a bit of a madam the last few nights. She's really grouchy the last few days too. Hullabalulu did you get the wonder weeks book? I think DD is in a thundery bit right now!

Blimey she'll be 6 months in 10 days or so, I'll have to head to that other thread...

HullabaLuLu Lucky you - DH works weekends (well, one of the two days, usually) which is rubbish because no one else is ever around!

That sounds like something for comfort, a sore throat is horrible. I hope the antibiotics are kicking in now.

We had a shocker of a night too. DD fell asleep on our bed at 7.30pm, she looked absolutely zonked then out of nowhere - eyes wide open, smiles, raspberry blowing, singing away, grabbing her feet/my face/boobs. I didn't manage to get her into her Amby until 9pm but she woke crying at 10pm (bounced back to sleep) and again at 11pm so I just put her in with us.

She carried on crying on and off through the night but wouldn't always suckle so it wasn't all hunger. I don't feel too bad today considering...

I am picking up "The Wonder Weeks" today from the library. I hope it gives me some answers.

Thank god it's Friday. I live for the weekends when DH is around and I can have a break/soak in the bath.

Well I think that's still v impressive! DD has never tried anything like that (and is also utterly unimpressed by my attempts to get her interested in her feet, gives me a "yes mother they are my feet, now get a grip" look)

She is only interested in rolling over as many times as humanly possible. Throat better today but had terrible night, she kept waking then feeding for about 2 mind then sleeping... Virtually every hour.maybe it helped soothe her throat? God I hope it's only temporary...

Oh god no, she was lying on a bf cushion so she was half way there - it wasn't from completely flat! But she sat up and wobbled around a bit, spotted her toes and then leaned forward completely to suck them.

Hey guys. BabyKiwi is better thank you - temperature is right down again thank god. Oddly she's actually MUCH more grumpy today which is strange, but I suppose yesterday she was just too knocked out to be grumpy and today she's got more get-up-and-grump...

I absolutely share your feelings, Superd and Hullabalulu. It's only really the last few weeks (not including last few days) where I've felt like i was enjoying it rather than just surviving it. DH also claims he wants two more DCs (agh!) and wants to know when we can have the next - to which my current reply is "When scientists work out how YOU can have it.."

Hullabalulu your DD really sounds like mine at that stage and she has become a LOT easier in the last few weeks so have hope! God knows she's still rubbish at night but nothing like as rubbish as she was, and has to some extent discovered a bit of self-settling (mainly by rolling onto her front
And do you mean BabyHullabalulu sat up by herself? That's amazing!! Or even if it was supported, it's still great. DD is, blimey, 24 weeks tomorrow and still doesn't appreciate my sitting-up-training!

Oh we had a terrible night - dd didn't settle until 9.30pm and didn't do anything longer than a 2 hour stretch. Gah! Co-slept from 2am and then DH got up for work at 6am, waking me in the process. DD was sprawled like a starfish in our kingsize bed snoozing away at 6.30am.

I completely know what you mean superd. DH is pestering about dc #2 and I just keep thinking, I never want to go through this again. I love dd, adore her but I can barely function. I love seeing her progress (she sat up for the first time today! I took a picture! May put it on my profile...) but I can't say I enjoy it much. I feel like I am just surviving.

I saw a friend today who told me I am going to have to teach dd to sleep with cio. I said I won't ever leave her to cry so she accused me of being too soft and offered to do it for me when dh and I go out for our anniversary!

She reckons if she doesn't sleep independently by the time she starts nursery they'll just leave her to cry anyway. Oh I feel sick at the thought!

How's babykiwi's throat?

How old is your ds superd, reading this thread 23-26 weeks seems to be a good phase (just under 5 weeks away for me...I will have expired by then)

Hi kiwi, hi hulla, hello everyone...
Sorry to hear about babykiwi... We had ear infection hell recently, so I know how awful it is. We also used a syringe to give him his medicine, and he tended to be ok with it...
Things here are still a bit rubbish... In addition to 2-3 feeds, I also have to wake up at least 4 times when he rolls onto his tummy, gets stranded like a beached whale, and starts to panic . The only thing that has saved me from completely collapsing with fatigue is the fact that I get a couple of hours sleep in the morning when either DH or my mother take him. Without them, I don't think I would have coped. I just hope that this awful phase ends so that I can get back to enjoying motherhood again... I'm ashamed to admit it, but <<lowers voice>> I feel quite disappointed with the experience at the moment, and can't quite shake the feeling that I'm doing something wrong . I guess sleep deprivation does that to you. Anyway... things can only get better right??
Hope everyone has a good night!

Hullabalulu I had days if hand expressing/syringing too! DD was in SCBU for her first week with kidney failure and wouldn't feed from me for the first 5 days. amazing to think how far they've come isn't it? Wouldn't feed from me and now she won't take a bottle!

Anyway she seems knocked out today - slept for 3 1/2 hours at lunchtime!! I kept going in to check on her despite having monitor in my hand cos I couldn't believe she'd nap that long. Could antibiotics make her sleepy?

I've got syringes and she actually doesn't seem to mind the calpol, she gets a look on her little face like "ok! What's this weird non-milk taste?!" clearly the antibiotics just taste worse! Not surprised, it's a lurid red colour...

She's just gone back to sleep - god knows what the night will be like!

someone sorry!

so,eone bought us this

It has a medicine dispenser in it and I'm sure Tesco sell it. Its about £15.

bye FG, see you around MN (hope your good stretches continue!

Well, our night wasn't great. DD woke 4 times before 2am so I just put her in with us after that. Couldn't say how the night went after that so I must have got some sleep but I don't feel like it today.

DD is being very clingy and crying a lot at the moment. My house looks like a bomb site - I have managed to tidy-ish but not clean. I am sleep deprived, living in chaos.

Oh kiwi thats awful, your poor dd. My dd spits calpol out, i think its a reflex. I've used a syringe that I had left over from hospital when she could latch on so I had to syringe hand expressed milk (oh happy days!), had a bit more success with that. I think you can buy them... I'll goggle it...

feralgirl goodbye (for now) and good luck!

Well we had a terrible night - but poor DD woke with temp of 38.5 and turns out she's got tonsilitis, poor mite, so was obviously in pain. She's being ever so brave though, I'd cry more if I had tonsilitis!

Now I haveto give her antibiotics which she just spots out again... agh! Any top tips!?

hello! Well my divine Night Of Only Two Wakings was a one-off as expected and the past 2 nights have reverted to their usual form..but hey ho.I think with this heat I can make allowances - she must be thirsty and hot so can have as much BF as she wants...If the weather cools down I'll have to think of another excuse for her! DD1 has woken up for the past 3 nights too - for water! Come on weather - cooler nights please! I've got a quiet day ahead so dd2 and I can chill out and be lazy!
FG - bye bye - hope your LO realises that he has left the thread and starts to sleep for big long 12 hours stetches to show you how grown up he is

Well, my last post here! . Wouldn't it have been lovely if I could say that DS slept through last night?! Sadly I can't claim that but he did only wake twice for cuddles and didn't request milk until 5.30 this morning. I got a 5 hour stretch from 11.30 - 4.30 too which was just divine.

I am very cautiously optimistic but am also totally prepared for a full on regression.

I'll miss you all, and hopefully won't see you on the 6 month thread because all our DCs will be sleeping angelically Here's to us all (eventually) coming out the other side and being able to dispense wisdom, support and advice to other new parents!

Raises optimistic glass of champagne mug of triple espresso.

fg we'll miss you! Hope feralbaby keeps up the good work!

Hullabalulu I'm in Brighton...I love living by the sea too..we can see it from our balcony..although I'm a tired and grumpy git all a lot of the time I def feel better on sunny days..!

Kiwi ah bless your little girl!my ds is a real buddah baby..10lbs at birth (ouch!) and still massive..

Goodnight.. hoping everyone gets a bit of sleep!

Hulla, the recent reasonable stretches have come out of the blue really. He's only ever gone longer than 4 hours on very rare occasions, it's always been 2-3 hourly waking and snacking. I'm assuming it's down to the fact that he's getting more calories during the day now that he's on solids. He's taken to BLWing brilliantly, the little stunna.

Today is officially my last day on this thread. Weird to think that exactly six months ago my body was just gearing up to give birth, I feel like I've been a mum for an awful lot longer than that.

Bluebunny DD was born 19/12 so one whole day older than your DS! Though a lot smaller by the sound of it, she's a shrimp of a thing (was only 6lbs at birth and still clinging just about to the underside of the 9th centile line!) All the women in my family have little babies - my niece, who is nearly 18 months, can still fit into the Bumbo we inherited from her, bless her!! They'll thank us for it when they are tall skinny teenagers, mind...

Hullabalulu We definitely got the sunshine on cue. Well, actually she had a stinking cough and cold, poor mite, around week 19/20 so was pretty grumpy then, understandably, but as soon as that shifted she was an absolute sweety, and has been ever since. She's been a tiny tiny bit more tetchy this week but really nothing to complain of. I still shudder when I remember week 13 - where she refused to sleep unless I was carrying her AND walking fast in the Baby Bjorn. If I even stopped at a traffic light she went mental... I walked about 12 miles a day that week. Wore out a pair of shoes!! Thank god she's light...

Oh Bluebunny - where are you? Sounds gorgeous. I live in a land locked city...er unless canals count? I miss living by the coast...

Been out with DD in the sling today. Its amazingly hot but I went to meet a colleague for coffee. I was dreading DD getting hungry but bf was actually fine. I used a muslin to cover up a bit - I do have to work with this guy! She napped brilliantly in the sling though but I guess it could have been heat exhaustion!

Anyway, BB, 2 1/2 hours is only half an hour less than my longest stretch last night. I don't feel too tired today though and think its because I fed her lying down and sort of dozed while I did.

Feralbaby sounds like he is doing brilliantly! What was he doing before his 6 hour stretches? Have I got to wait another 8 weeks before DD does the same?

I don't blame you for being thrilled about it. If it were me it would be my facebook status, I'd have called my mum and probably started a thread in "sleep" about it!! .

Staines it is always like this here! for your DH tho, my hayfever is on fire today too but I really want to hold off on the anti-histamines as long as poss coz of the BFing. Haven't attempted St Ives with a buggy yet, only slinging!

I am full of happiness today because DS managed a six hour stretch last night. He went to bed at 7.30 and didn't stir until 1.45 And he only woke at 4.30 because I went to the loo, otherwise I wonder whether he'd have managed another hour or so...

DH was very nonchalant about it all this morning but I was swinging from the rafters!

hi fg, i had naturally assumed that it was always like this on the cornish riviera. it's amazing weather, but unfortunately dh suffers quite badly from hayfever, so less fun for him. st ives is gorgeous. loads of steps though, they weren't thinking about buggies when they built it!

Morning ladies..

Thanks Hullabalulu and feralgirl for being sympathetic to my moaning!

I actually felt a bit brighter this morn purely because I got a 2 1/2 hour stretch followed by a 2 hour stretch in the middle of the night..I know this is pretty poor by most peoples standards but is better than it has been round these parts for a while! Plus it is a beautiful day here and the sea is v blue and sparkling which helps..

Kiwi, just realised my ds is same age as yr dd (his birthday is 20th dec)..my ds can only sit up supported on my lap or in his chair..(his legs also too fat for a bumbo!)..I am going to start fingerfoods and some baby rice in a couple of weeks..although I am a bit worried that solids may make him even windier..oh well we can but try..!

Ooh, Staines I live just up the road from where you're holidaying. Gooorrrgeous weather we're having eh?

DS was throughly crap last night so obviously I didn't whisper quietly enough. He did a 4.5hr stretch from 7.30-12.00 which was bugger all use as I went to bed at 11.00pm anyway. He then woke up every 2 hours becasue he was thirsty (v hot here in Cornwall!) and to crown it all, did a MONSTER poo at 5.30am. So the first thing I did this morning was sit him in the kitchen sink to clean him off. Lovely way to start the day.

Kiwi, DS only started sitting up by himself in the last week or so (he's 26 weeks on Weds); it was a fairly sudden thing (or I just didn't notice before). And he only does a few minutes before wobbling over. He's fine in our high chair which is horrible tat that was offloaded onto given to us. It swamps him but he soldiers on, the little trooper.

We have been using the bumbo but it's getting to the point where I have to squish his legs into the holes so we did our first sitting-at-the-table-meal-as-a-family tonight (which DH spoilt by whinging about the heat and saying he felt ill )

Hello bluebunny. Moan as much as you like; noone in RL understands, listens, cares or offers useful advice IME. At least you'll get sympathy from MN!

But did you get the sunshine? I need hope because DD is being such a miserable baby at the moment. She has slept and fed today with a couple of hours of whinging playing. I am hoping the book tells you how to handle the storms!

hullabalulu I don't have that book but I do have the "chart" from it photocopied. 14.5 to 19.5 weeks is indeed supposed to be a fussy phase (roughly of course, not exactly and of course not all babies.. though DD has followed the pattern exactly so far!)

Then you get sunshine to 22.5 weeks and another storm. Oh dear, that's where we are!

oh bugger

p.s. Hi traceface - glad you had a good night.

Welcome bluebunny! Don't apologise for moaning - I think its why the thread was started!

p.s. Hi traceface - glad you had a good night.

Welcome bluebunny! Don't apologise for moaning - I think its why the thread was started!

Oh my highchair arrived too. Its a Chicco Polly Magic so can be used from newborn. 18 week old DD is doing fine in it (for short periods anyway). I am hoping she will sit in it at the table while we eat.

I am also going to the library to order "The Wonder Weeks: Your Baby's Eight Great Fussy Phases.

Someone photocopied me the chart and apparently 14 ish weeks to 19 ish weeks is a big fussy phase. As is 22.5 weeks - 26.5 weeks. Something to do with developmental leaps. Has anyone else read it?

Enjoy your hols staines - gorgeous weather!!

quick post - as we are on holiday in st ives and i'm sad enough to still indulge my mn addiction - ds has been in his high chair but still can't sit unaided and it works a treat. kind of sad in a way, he looks so much more grown up. but he definitely likes it.

hello again! Sorry for my fleeting appearance then disappearance...the day after I posted our phone line and internet packed up and I have only just got reconnected!
dd2 did her best ever night last night - went down at 7pm and only woke at 12.45 and 3.45 then up at 6.30 for the day! I couldn't believe it! This is unheard of! I will of course expect that every night now!!
kiwi my dd2 is 24 weeks and not sitting unaided. I have started giving her a few mouthfuls of puree over the last week and have sat her in a bumbo to do this. I get the impression if I waited until she sat alone and could swallow lumps we would wait until Christmas! She loves the pureed veg - but I'm assuming that her night last night is entirely unrelated to a few blobs of veg going in!
She's just having a nap now so I'd better grab some lunch...
bye for now

Hello can I join you fellow nocturnal sufferers for a good old moan?
I have been in denial for some time but it's time to face it I have another crap sleeper..(ds1, now nearly 5, was/is also crap)

Ds2 is 23 weeks and like some others on this thread doesn't have much to regress from. He has only slept for 5 hour stetches on 2 seperate occaisions and that was a long time ago...a good night is 4 wakes but this is rare too it's been more like 6 or more wakes a night for a few weeks now. Unfortunately he has had cold after cold and chicken pox (curtesy of ds1 who started school this year) and eczema on his head, which I don't think has helped his sleep at all..at the moment he looks like he has got teeth coming but they are taking their to pop out..aaah

I don't think it's hunger waking him as he often refuses the breast if I offer it too much (which is a shock as ds1 never turned it down!!). Sometimes I think it's wind as when I push his legs up big farts come out!But I really thought he would have grown out of this by now..?

I am gutted as I am so tired it's difficult to be positive and as I said I already had a crap sleeper for years so was hoping I would get more of a break this time....!Sorry for moaning but none of my friends have sleepers as bad as mine so don't really understand how hideous it is.....

Anyway it sadly comforting to know I am not the only one out there going through this...

Check you two out with your long stretches of sleep!

FG - did you have another good night? <<whispers>> Maybe you're both coming out the other side of this?

I had quite a good night, although not in comparison to you two.

After superd talking about moving ds into his own room I decided the best I could do was to try and minimise dd waking us and us waking dd. So, my lovely (but ruffly-noisy) feather duvet has been replaced with a normal one. So thats the memory foam mattress and the comfy duvet both in the spare room [heartbroken emoticon]. I also moved the Amby next to my feet rather than next to my head.

So my night went like this: 8.30pm finally asleep for the night, feeds at 12.40am, 2.20am & 3.20am (still seemed hungry), 5.15 and then up for the day (with DH) at 6am. I know that doesn't sound great but I wasn't awake inbetween bouncing the everytime she sighed. She does make noise in her sleep and I think having her right next to me made me wake everytime and panic that she was waking so I'd bounce her when she didn't need it. I seem to remember her waking once, whimpering a bit and then going back to sleep. If she'd been next to me I'd have been bouncing the Amby and waking us all up.

So today I feel rested.

Naptimes are a nightmare Kiwi. I tend to cheat and when DD starts yawning I offer her the boob. More often than not she takes it and goes to sleep. If she's in the sling she just dozes off when she's tired but I'd say 9 times out of 10 (including when she'll suckle to sleep) she cries before napping. Its getting better and she's napping on the sofa next to me now - a few weeks ago she'd have cried for an hour, fallen asleep suckling and then woken up if I'd tried to move her off my knee. Its small progress. She only cries for a few minutes now and I can lie her on the sofa and occassionally get her back in the Amby.

I am waiting for her highchair to be delivered today in readiness for BLW at 26 weeks! DD has a strong neck but is far from sitting up unaided (18 weeks) so I'm not much help I'm afraid. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say though.

Enjoy the lovely sunny weather ladies!

I'm whispering too - last night I got a 6 hour plus stretch!! Well actually she did wake once but really soon after she'd gone to bed so I wasn't asleep. She fed at 1.30, 4.30 and woke at 7 with NO OTHER wakings!!!!! I was so shocked by the amount of sleep that I couldn't get back to sleep at 4.30 but hey.... Now will it ever happen again??

Daytime naps are turning into a right nightmare though. one day she seems knackered after 2 hours play, the next she has a proper meltdown if I put her down at roughly the same time. Any one else....?

Oh and a random question as lots of you seem also to be approaching BLW time (DD is 23 weeks) - can your little ones sit up (supported or otherwise) yet? DD is not very keen on the idea and I'm wondering what I'm supposed to do if she's still the same at 26 weeks?

<<whispers really quietly so as not to tempt fate>>

Last night I got a five hour stretch.

Without calpol.

Clearly his new teeth are enabling him to eat more which is aiding sleep! Hurrah for teeth! Bring on the molars!

It would probably have been longer if I hadn't had boobs like boulders by 3.30am and woken DS by wriggling about trying to get comfy. It's been about a week since he's spent longer than an hour or two in bed with me and we are discussing moving him into his room in a couple of weeks (once we've cleared all the crap out of it).

For the first time in 6 months, I haven't been ready to pass out with tiredness by 3pm. It feels weeeird!

Morning all,

Hey FG, thanks for that tip. I am going to give those pampers a try, possibly in a bigger size. DD now only poos once every couple of days but when she does there is tonnes of the bloody stuff!

Wow, I never thought I'd look forward to teething! DD is now biting my nipples when feeding. They are so sore! I wonder if it is teething but she doesn't have many of the other symptoms (red cheeks, pain etc).

I have realised that I am now waking everytime she so much as turns her head (and then sitting up and checking on her). I can usually bounce her Amby and keep her asleep for about 3 hours (first stretch) but I am up so much bouncing her bed that I am exhausted! Aaaargh!! So I like Superd's suggestion, I think DH wakes DD with his snoring. Its no wonder I get no sleep. However, DD's room is not on the same floor as ours and I don't want to be climbing stairs 3 times a night. I don't think she'll be in her own room for months.

We don't start weaning for another 8 weeks yet but those cheese straws sounds yummy. I might make them anyway...get them perfected by the time DD is on solids!

Hello all. We are currently growing teeth and the wonder of Calpol has meant that I've actually had a couple of four hour stretches for the last couple of nights. I feel spoiled rotten!

Ta for the recipe Chulita I am a demon for the cheese straws so will have to get DH to hide them from me!

Cheese Straws-
100g/4oz plain or wholemeal flour
50g/2oz butter
75g/3oz cheddar cheese, grated
1 egg, beaten
Preheat oven to 200C/Gas 6.
Mix flour and butter til they resemble breadcrumbs. Stir in cheese and egg to form a dough. Roll out to a thickness of 1cm and cut into fingers. Place on a greased baking sheet and bake for 10 mins.
Cool on a wire rack. (Can be frozen for up to 6mths)

Just a warning, DD liked them but DH has eaten most of them, they're quite moreish!

superd - DH took DD every now and then when she was really little and it did make a huge difference. I think as mums we're just too distracting!
Hooray for baby rice!! Hope baby staines keeps it up

Hi FG - afraid i don't have yummy cheese straw recipe, i sent chulita (or amazon did) a BLW recipe book in return for anti cat pee stuff she very kindly posted to me - i'm guessing cheese straws are in there. chulita - it looks like we won't let you go just yet, come back and tell us about cheese straws!!!

quick update, have been shovelling various incarnations of baby rice into ds (with nana, with pear, with sweet potato etc etc) and am cautiously optimistic. last night i think ds woke at 12 for a whinge and went straight back to sleep - i think - and didn't eat until 3am. unheard of from 6.30....if i'm right! something has to change soon, i think i'm cracking up!

Hi everyone,
So last night was about to turn into a total nightmare with DS tossing and turning and waking up for no apparent reason every hour and a half. It was about 1am when my mother realised that I was teetering perilously close to the end of my tether and banished me to the spare room, promising to bring DS to me when he needed a feed.
He slept soundly with her for FOUR hours . I mean, the kid didn't move, which is extraordinary considering he's just started rolling over and gets stuck on his front at least a million times a night. My mother is convinced that he smells my milk which acts as a distraction for him... a bit like sleeping in a restaurant. It could be a coincidence, but I am SOLD and we are SOOOOOOO moving out of his room when we get home!
Just thought I'd share it with y'all.

Hulla re the nappies (although you might have sorted it by now) we use washables but have Pampers 12 hours for emergencies (on the recommendation of a friend) which have served us well when I've had to use them.

Bye Chulita (although I guess you've gone already), see you next Wednesday <<quakes in flip-flops at prospect of spending the rest of life on the 6 months thread>>

We are in the midst of teething hell so DS is waking every two hours grizzling. Not that two hourly waking is anything new, but I can usually settle him with a shush-pat or a feed and at the moment nothing works, poor little sod. I've been up since 4am...

BUT I refuse to be miserable; the sun is shining and one of my friends has just found out she's pregnant so all is happy in the feral household!

Ooh, hadn't thought of cheese straws for BLWing DS. Please may I have the recipe too Staines?

Bye chulita and good luck!

In a few weeks I'll be on that 6 month thread, I don't dare look ...

Today, I was talking to two new mums (both babies 5 weeks old). "How's she doing, you getting any sleep at night?" I asked one.

"Oh no it's terrible," she said, "she wakes every three hours!"

I uttered a hollow laugh...

staines, thank you!! I'm deffo going to make the cheese straws, they look fab. I need to give DD something that'll fatten her up a bit
Right, off to introduce myself to the 6 monthers. hulla hope you get a better night tonight, fingers crossed [virtual coffee and triple choccy muffin]

Just had a peak at the 6 month sleep thread. <<sobs quietly>>
So depressing....

Oh terrible night, no long stretch. Awake every hour and a half from 8.30am. I have been pinched and kicked all night. Exhausted. Can't say anymore, need coffee.

Good luck on the 6 month thread Chulita, you'll probably be sleeping brilliantly by the time I get there so see you round MN!

bye bye Chulita - see you in two weeks on the 6 mths thread....or now i come to think of it, not on there, any where but on there!! fingers crossed for you

[sigh] baby Chulita is 6 months old as of today. The only consolation I'm going to take with me to the 6mth sleep thread is that there isn't a 7/8/9mth thread.
I was debating CC with a friend and she said "as long as you're happy getting up to feed her you don't have to do CC". If only it was a matter of 'being happy to get up'! I'm not happy getting up to feed umpteen times a night but I'm not happy letting her cry when I'm not sure whether she's hungry or not. Argh!
Still, when I joined this thread I was up every 1.5hrs and now I'm only up twice a night or thrice on a bad night so at least there is some progress!!
hulla - DD does the leg slamming thing too, we don't have an Amby but I think they do it to work their abs for that all important sitting up stage in a few months...very noisy though!!

Well I found a few things out last night:

-DD can fall asleep on her own* (see small caveat below) and doesn't need rocking/feeding etc (but still likes those methods)

-Co-sleeping/lying on a flat mattress seems to cause her to wake more.

-Huggies Superdry leak big time!

DD started her sleeping on and off from about 7pm but kept waking. DH tried cuddling her and I tried feeding/suckling but she wasn't interested. *In the end we lay down on our bed with DD lying between us (DH pretended to be asleep but I thought that a step too far) and she just nodded off. We then moved her to her Amby (9pm by this time) and she slept until 1.20am. She then woke at 3.30am for a feed and I put her back in her Amby and she woke at 5.15am talking to herself. I lay her next to me to feed and she suckled for a minute or so and then fell back asleep so I put her back in her hammock and she slept until 6.30am.

This is better than when she sleeps next to me, she keeps bringing her feet up and slamming them down. I can only assume it's to try and bounce the bed like the amby.

When DH picked her up at 6.30am her pjs were soaking from leaky wee. That's the 3rd time in a week and we've moved to Huggies size 3 (she's over 14lb). Not sure what to do next...

So, I will continue to feed her lying down in bed but after that its back in the hammock.

Hope you're feeling better KP. Its awful lying awake when your dc sleeps - I usually end up worrying, counting the minutes of lost sleep!

Blimey this makes me really appreciate DH! If I'm really exhausted/ill/down he volunteers as night nanny - sleeps with DD in the main room while I kip in the spare room and just brings her in for feeds - he does all the resettling etc. Bless him.

BabyKiwi is showing some signs of progress and adjusting to life without the swaddle - she's even in the last week or so FINALLY stopped her habit of waking up exactly 45 minutes after we put her down. She's going 3 hours at a stretch now, sleep-wise, which is a big improvement on 10 days ago. She even managed to put herself to sleep last night after 10 minutes of babbling to herself, which was very very cute to watch [besotted emoticon] If only she'd do that in the middle of the night ...

However, the last few nights have been hell because I've had sinusitis - so while she's been sleeping I've been clutching my head and groaning gently to myself.

If there's one thing worse that sleeplessness because the baby is awake, it's sleeplessness when they are dozing. It's just such a wasted opportunity!!

Nessa - I think I love you! dh thought that paternity leave was for improving his rating on football manager. fact.

Lol at all of your post Nessa*!

*Chulita, DS is the same. Whenever I've tried him with water he's just rolled the teat around in his mouth and laughed at it. Same with dummies. Grrr.

I'm leaving the CC for a while because (a) everyone says absolutely not to do it before 6 months minimum and (b) we're BLWing so he's only messing about with solids at the moment (although he's definitely eating, more on this in a min). Once I know he's eating three full on meals a day and therefore can't be hungry at night then I'll get tough I think. The BLW blog says most BLWing DCs get going properly at about 9mos.

His latest trick, now that he's having some fruit and veg, is to save up two days worth of evil poo and shoot it all out at 5am, all over him, his grobag and my sheet. A couple of days ago he did it and, while I was changing him on the bed, he peed everywhere as well; all whilst giggling like a thing possessed. <<frustrated beyond all belief emoticon>>

I'm expecting the worst tonight...

The whole problem is.. are they really hungry? You ignore the nighttime waking chanting to yourself "she can't be hungry.. surely not.. not after that 1 hour feed + tablespoon of baby rice 2 hours ago.." but the poor mite sounds starving, so what the heck, you whip the boob out anyway. DD then grabs it with such enthusiasm that I think I must have been right.. but she only seems to need a few minutes (never sure; I always nod off). I started first 4 months co-sleeping: gosh I long for those days because, as everyone says, you don't really have to wake up. You're dimly aware a few times a night of a gently nibbling but apart from that it seems like a blissful 8 hours! I got hysterical worrying that i would never get her to sleep by herself so now she is in her cot and the minute I finish a feed I toss her back in and fall asleep again. I did try co-sleeping again recently in the hope of some sleep but she spent most of the night wacking me with her arms and grunting in my ear; it was like sleeping with the DH.

Don't get me started on DHs. I sleep in DD's room while DH sleeps in our room (haven't seen my own delicious bed for nearly a year as he threw me out when i was pregnant complaining about my snoring). He used his paternity leave to send me off to my parents while he soundproofed our bedroom with acoustic stuff in the floorboards and walls so that he wouldn't have to hear the troublesome sounds of our two DDs, day or night. Ok so he works shifts, but really.. he has not lost one wink of sleep in the 3 years since we had children!

Deffo worth a try superd, trouble is DD is at a stage where everything is highly amusing so when she has a sip and realises it's not milk she has a good old laugh and then starts rooting around for the real thing...
Funny how we all think about CC but we still have to whisper cos we know someone's going to proper flame us for even thinking of it

Hooray for urineoff, long may it spread its cat smell hiding goodness

Oh Chulita, how I wish I knew.
<<lowers voice to barely inaudible whisper>>
We're thinking of trying to offer baby superd water at at least one night waking once he's off his course of antibiotics and is back to 100%. I suspect that at least one of his night time feeds is borne out of habit rather than need. Obviously, if I'm wrong, he'll get milk, but it's worth a try... isn't it???
<<runs away and hides>>.

hello all,

i have temporarily stopped thinking about it. i am sooooooooooooooo grumpy, i can't think about anything else, have to concentrate on my bad mood.

i know it's a self fulfilling prophecy!

On a more positive note, we had a great morning car booting this morning. ikea high chair for £1.50.

Chulita - have great plans for urineoffing the entire house tomorrow. very exciting!

Ok, so here's the question: how do you know when they wake up that they don't need feeding? DD woke up 3 times between 6pm and 6am and I'd love her to sleep longer but she does feed...not amazing 30 min feeds but she'll have a boob and a half probably. Everyone says they should be sleeping better by 6 months...hah...but with regards to CC how do we know whether it's a good time for it? Any ideas??

at Chulita's sleep and helpful DH. Mine has sodded off with the car so that he can go for a surf after work (and skive from doing the bath tonight) which means I'm on my own in the house and it's just started to rain and all my RL friends are working or on holiday <<self pitying emoticon>>

Very glad to hear that baby Superd is feeling better and back to his old self! I'm thinking of trying the feralchild back in his room very soon. He made it until 3am in his own bed last night before screaming at me and refusing to resettle. I think this month I'm going to work on getting him to spend the whole night in his own bed and then move him.

<<whispers>> Is anyone thinking of doing some CCing in the next month or two? I really don't want to but I don't know how desperate I'll have to be before I give it a go.

Happy Bank Holiday Monday Ladies!

Pleased to report that baby superd is making an excellent recovery. Still waking up every two hours through... We're thinking of moving him to his own room once he hits 5 months as I keep hearing that it can help (plus it's one of the few remaining things on the planet that we haven't tried...). Any thoughts?

Lol Chulita, 7 hours like Christmas!!

My DD did a 5 hour stretch last night (9pm - 2am) and we haven't stopped talking about it this morning!! She then only slept another hour and a half before I just put her in with us for the rest of the night and she woke for the day at 6.30am. DD got up with her and let me lie in until 9am.

I think I must be due a stint of sleep regression soon!

Co-sleeping on our new ultra uncomfortable firm mattress is killing my hip. I would be so much more comfortable if I could lie on my back or stomach next to DD.

Lovely sunny day where we are (staying at my mums), hope everyone else is enjoying a lovely sunny bank hol too.

Hah! spoilt again, the 7 hours was a one off, back to the old 'sleep-training' debate!!

How's baby superd doing?

DH has been fantastic this weekend, he gets up every morning to change DD and give me an extra 10 mins in bed, it all helps. (the cups of tea and biscuits are always a winner too ). He's away a lot for work at the mo so comes home ready to spoil me and I'm not going to argue!!

How low have we got that a 5 hour sleep is worth writing about?! and a 7 hour sleep feels like christmas???

Hope everyone has a lovely bank holiday

Lol staines

Well done Chulita!! Maybe it's the moon or something because DS had a DF at 11pm, a feed at 4am (yes...4am!) and that's it until 8.30am . I keep thinking that maybe I forgot a feed/waking but no....I really did have 5 hours sleep in a row

Hope baby superd is better now.

I am frequently a total cow a bit terse with DP. He did his 1st night feed ever 2 nights ago and you'd have thought the world was coming to an end! He made such a big deal about it. Frustratingly, I laid awake through the whole feed anyway worrying about how much DS would take and whether DP would be able to resettle him ok and remember to switch the monitor back on!

Chulita - congratulations! It is because you did a good deed yesterday and sent me the urinoff. If you want to send any more stuff we can do an experiment? I would also trade most of the contents of my house for 7 hours sleep.

[manic cackling] I cannot believe it...fed dd at half 11 and woke up at quarter to 7 with boobs about to explode and the sound of baby chulita singing to herself what on earth happened?? What did I do yesterday that I must do today??? AAAAAHHHHH!! I got 7 hours sleep and I want more, more, more!! Brace yourselves for an almighty moan tomorrow when I don't get it
Oh...and welcome to all newcomers

Welcome Traceface you're definitely another parallel lifed buddy! Sounds like we'll be graduating to the (epic) six month thread together soon too.

Ha Hulla, funny isn't it? There are sooo many things that I said "I'll never..." about and co-sleeping was top of the list! I think it's (a) instinctive and (b) lovely so, tbh, sod our parents, grandparents, in-laws and everyone else!

Re DHs, I swing from feeling intensely sorry for my DH to wanting to murder him. I know I'm being a cow because I'm so knackered but I too feel like I do bloody everything and it drives me nuts that I have to ask him to do stuff rather than him noticing and just doing it. The other morning we actually discussed him moving out for a week because all we do is bicker and argue...

However I'm going back to work on July 1st <<petrified emoticon>> and DH is going part time so he is going to start doing the nights and spending two days a week at home with DS so he'll soon understand what it's like!

MiL is babysitting for us tonight while we go out. I'm terrified; it's the first time he'll have been with someone other than me or DH for longer than about 30 mins and he's going through a growth spurt. Knowing the MiL I'll probably come home to him munching on a bloody Maccy D!

Well I'm a newbie here too traceface but I reckon you'd fit in nicely.

<<passes traceface a strong coffee and offers her a couple of match sticks for eyelids>>

<tiptoes in and peers around curiously...>
Hello, I've not been on this thread before but the title drew me in...
My 5.5 month old wakes very 2 hours on a good night and quite frequently even more. I'm tired. She has been a 2 hourly feeder day and night since birth, about a month ago she strayed into a 3 hourly zone for about 3 nights, then reverted to the good old 2. Her days can go 3 hourly, and I've just started weaning this week (only a few mouthfuls at lunch time each day).But her nights....oh the nights...I really think she is hungry because she feeds well at night, and won't settle with anything apart from boob (did I say she's exclusively BF?). DO I fit in to your thread?!!

Morning, well I can only report two wakings - about midnight and 3am (DD's bedtimes seem to be getting later, it was 9pm last night). DH usually gets up with DD when she wakes for the day and complained yesterday of her 5am starts so I brought her into our bed when she woke at 3am. When she started to stir at around 5am I shushed and cuddled her and she managed another 50 minutes. She then started babbling and trying to roll over so I said to DH "Sorry, only managed another 50 minutes past 5am" and he replied "better than no minutes" and rolled over and fell back asleep. DD continued to swing her feet in my face so I got up with her.

I'm in a strop with DH now. I look after DD from about 7am until DH gets home at 6.30pm, he bathes her while I cook, then I feed her whilst eating dinner and then go to bed. DH then has his evening free to watch what he likes, drink his drinks while they're still hot etc etc. I don't get any time for me!

FG, I have been backwards and forwards on the co-sleeping but remember our chat about it and its partly the reason I keep going back to it. I have struggled because we had a memory foam mattress and I just felt it was too soft but we had a firm mattress delivered yesterday so I could finally relax feeding DD in bed last night.

My mum also has a problem with co-sleeping. Her view is if DD will settle in her Amby why go backwards and make a rod for my own back? I would have thought the same thing before DD was born but I have this overwhelming feeling that she should sleep next to me (that and I get more sleep having her next to me that leaning out of bed bouncing the bloody Amby all night!!).

Hope you all had a better night!

Hi Nessa and all others too.

Same here Nessa; DS settles himself for naps beautifully and sleeps like an angel for the first three hours of every night. It's just from 10pm onwards that he is a little heller! I too have spent silly money on black out blinds. Devastating isn't it? You spot something that touts itself as a miracle cure (hammock, white noise, CD of relaxing music, massage, the perfect night nappy etc. etc.); you spend money on it; you wait in desperate anticipation for it to turn up - hoping that maybe just maybe this is the answer; you try it and then, when it makes no sodding difference at all, you hate yourself for being such a gullible fool...

Hulla DS and I are still co-sleeping (we talked about it before). It makes such a huge diff to my night's sleep. I tend not to really remember what goes on at night because I don't always fully wake up. I got v with my mum yesterday when she suggested that co-sleeping is a bad idea. I rather tersely suggested to her that, had she bothered breastfeeding me or my brother for longer than 2 months, then she might well have found herself co-sleeping as it's so much easier.

Sorry for baby superd's poor ear! You must really be feeling like the world is conspiring against you. I hope things improve for you soon.

Hulla, I always feed ds in bed with me at night, sometimes i remember to put him back in his cot, most (80% of the time) he sleeps with me.......i can't say that it makes a jot of difference to his sleep either way - but i'm certain it makes my night better...does that help?!

Superd poor, poor baby superd. really hope you see a swift improvement now.

Hi Nessa, your dd sounds exactly the same as ds, such a good boy at bedtime, we just can't seem to replicate that behaviour the rest of the time. I have decided I just don't believe anyone who says their dc sleep through. Lalalalalalala.

Hey girls,
Thanks loads for the support. We had another miserable night (up every 2 hours, HOWLING) but realised this morning after yet another trip to the hospital that poor little tot had a perforated eardrum due to an infection . Anyway, a course of anti-b's should clear it up and then hopefully we'll return to our good old pattern of 3 hourly wakings... .
nessa, welcome to the thread. You won't find a smug mother here... we're all exhausted, unshowered and desperate. Make yourself at home .

God it's such a relief to find this thread and see I am not alone with my nocturnal DD2 (coming up to 6mths). I only seem to meet smug mums whose babies have been sleeping through since 2 weeks old while i'm too ashamed to admit that my 5 month old still wakes up every 2 hours looking for a feed. I feel I am doing everything wrong and am being totally inconsistent by sometimes responding with a feed straight away; sometimes only after 15 mins of crying and sometimes i let her cry it out without a feed at all. I know i'm going to have to do proper controlled crying soon, but keep using the excuse of DD1 and DH (who works shifts) getting woken up by 2 hours of crying. I did it with DD1 and it worked like magic. DD2 slept 8 hours both ways on plane recently so I tried white noise machine last night to simulate aeroplane noise! Made b**gr all difference. Also spent hours and ££ on attempts to block out hideous 5am sunrise-induced waking but again no luck. Worse thing is, being so knackered from DD2's nighttime waking all the time makes me grumpy with DD1, who sleeps like an angel. (The lady with the 5am 4-yr old niece - have they tried the fabulous Bunny Clock?)

And for all those sleep experts - yes I do have a consistent bedtime routine and put her down sleepy-but-awake, and she gets herself to sleep with nary a grumble, so how come she can't do the same thing at 10pm, 1am, 4am, 5am, 630am??????

oops

4 month old sleep

Morning everyone,

FG, your post inspired me to do some searching this morning and found this site (apologies if its already been mentioned - I haven't read all the posts). Its interesting to read other peoples experiences and that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Looks like at 16 weeks I haven't hit the tough weeks yet (wk 19 apparently).

[[http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2007/10/4-month-olds.html 4 month old sleep]

superd, that sounds like a terrible experience. So glad its not meningitis but I can't imagine handling a situation like that on a full nights sleep nevermind sleep deprived.

My night was a bit like yours Staines, 2 wakings (1.40am & 4am) but there was a fair bit of Amby bouncing inbetween and then DD was up for the day at 5.15am (DH did the honours).

New mattress arrived this morning so I think we'll be back to co-sleeping after 1st waking and see if she sleeps longer.... Has anyone else done that?

Thanks for that fg, I often think "I know you can go 8 hours without feeding, why don't you??????" I've got the most painful blocked duct at the mo cos yesterday we went out shopping and DD fed at 6:30 and then wasn't bothered til 2pm, and I've been a bit run down haven't we all!! and it's all backed up and clogged my boob...ow ow ow. Still, that was 8 hours without feeding and then she was up 3 times feeding last night...argh!! Don't blame her though, the shops were fascinating, I wouldn't have wanted to stare at my boobs either given the choice!!

Morning everyone. Superd, so sorry for you and baby superd, would hate to have to deal with that. Hope everything is a bit better for you now.

Here in stainesworld we are full of the joys of spring. only two wakings last night (that I remember) and they were brief - i think! and then he allowed me the luxury of sleeping til 6. little poppet.

i think it's cause he knows today we are driving from the suburbs of west london to east london at peak time. yay.

Chulita - cat peeing has already reduced, no idea why, and have found a mouse run in the bathroom behind some boxed in pipes. that'll be why they all want to pee in there then!! looking forward to getting urinoff all over it!

Hello again all, just read this which Starlight posted on another thread for MrsHD. It made me think about how a few of us have said that our DCs aren't feeding brilliantly during the day at the moment...

Oh Superd that's awful. You must have been frantic and I can't even begin to imagine how scary it must have been. I'm so sorry for you and your family but glad it wasn't meningitis. Are you all going to be OK now you're back home?

Hulla, I did wonder if it was you...!

Hello everyone,
Mind if I post my own list of woes here? It's been a while.
Anyway, we've had a absolutely awful week here. DS was struck with a nasty viral infection which aside from necessitating a night in hospital (suspected meningitis, but thankfully we're OK on that front...) also turned an already appalling sleep situation into something truly dire. I'd type the details out, but fear that seeing it all in black and white might just send me over the edge...

Hey Feralgirl, we've bumped into eachother before (LuLuLulabelle) <<waves>>.

My DD hardly fed on Monday, I'm not sure why but I was feeling engorged by lunchtime and dreading her playing catch up at night. It didn't seem to make a difference.

Having said that, we had a busy day (swimming & baby massage) so perhaps she was too worn out to be hungry. No idea.

Ooh co-codamol....theres a thought!

Oooh, new people. Hello Hulla and *Mrs HD*

Guess what? I had a night where I only had to feed DS once between 7pm and 6.30! He still woke up and needed to be shushed a bit two or three times but he had one big feed at 2.30 and that was it.

However, I think there's a bit more to this than just him sleeping by himself. I was so knackered yesterday that I burnt my hand really badly whilst cooking and, to numb the pain, took 2 co-codamol which my GP prescribed post-epesiotomy. When my hand was still bloody agony after 4 hours, I phoned NHS Direct and they said I shouldn't take cocodamol when breast-feeding as it'll make DS sleepy. So I've got a horrible feeling that I drugged him to sleep last night!

Chulita re. what you said about getting them to feed more during the day. I was told that too by a BF counseller, so I've been offering DS boob every couple of hours. Yesterday a BF peer supporter from the same group told me to go back to feeding strictly on demand so as to make sure that he takes a really full feed every time. I tried it today and DS has literally only taken two full feeds and done a bit of snacking. My guess is that he is going to now spend all night feeding.

I'm too chicken to do full on sleep training yet. I'm waiting until he's a bit older because then he'll be eating more solids and definitely won't be hungry at night. I'm a teacher and I need to be sleeping properly by September!

Oh Lol! I am truely not that anal - I meant 4.15am! I used to write the times down so I could see improvements and feel better but the improvements never came and it just depressed me so I gave up. Much happier now!

I've had the weaning advice too and top up with formula (must be my milk not satisfying her). That's why I can't moan about her sleep in RL!

I know what you mean about cc, my dd has just cried in my arms before her nap (always, always does unless she's hungry too and then she'll feed to sleep). I just thought, what's the difference between this and cio or cc?

My friend had come to visit and was holding DD who'd started yawning. She said "If she's tired shall I just put her in her cot?". Oh, how I laughed!

Hi Hulla. You definitely qualify. I love your note of the time - 4.14am! It really is that painful, isn't it.....

Was reminded by a friend yesterday of the HV's advice that it's time to wean when they stop sleeping through the night..........what if he never started????

Sil is taking ds this afternoon so I can have a kip. Love her very much!
smurf - am completely at a loss to analyse what i do from one day to the next at the moment - i don't know if I'm coming or going....the thing that scares me most is that I'll have to end up going down the cc route after all these months of co sleeping and bfing on demand - and it'll work! does that make sense to anyone????

Can I join you? DD is 16 weeks and we have a mixed bag of sleep patterns. Last night she went to sleep at 7.30pm but woke at 9pm and wouldn't settle until I fed her. She then managed to last until 1.20am (though I may have bounced her back to sleep in her hammock during that time - can't remember).

So far so good but at 3am she woke because of a leaky nappy so I had to change her completely and sort her bed out by which time she was wide awake and wanting to play with her feet until 4.14am. Up for the day at 5.20am but DH got up with her.

I am exhausted today - the late to sleep/early rising is happening everyday now.

Do I sound like a suitable joinee?

Hi all. Haven't had time to write as MIL has been staying (plenty of useful tips.....). But have been keeping an eye on your posts.

I too will be moving on to the 6 month thread in 2 weeks. Things have improved with baby smurf though and if I'm lucky, he only wants 1 feed during the night. Last week we had 1 night where he had a DF at 11pm, feed at 3am then slept til 7.30am.....bliss!!! Sadly, the 2 hourly awakenings the following night made up for it . I'm wondering of he's teething as he's shown that he can go 4-5 hours without a feed.

On the whole though, we're having 2 feeds a night now and going straight back to sleep after so I really shouldn't complain when I see the kind of nights you're having with the playing/screaming sessions.

I try to leave him to grumble for a while if he's fed within 2 hours but with MIL in the next room, I was jumping before he cranked up too much. I'm hoping he's not got used to it!

He has been taking solids with gusto and is scoffing loads (I have taken the mush route) and I am now ff as well as bf. So far, all his night feeds are bf so I'm wondering if sending DP to him with a bottle will make a difference to his night wakings . I still feel that some of them are more comfort/habit.

staines you're not being a whingebag! When I have an exceptionally good/bad night, I analyse everything I did/ate/said/wore to either see if I can replicate the good night or work out where I went wrong for the bad night!

just emailed you

ooooooooooooooooooooooh chulita, you are very kind. email me on justinedelia@yahoo.com and we'll arrange details. mwah! mwah!!

staines if you're interested I've got some stuff 'urinoff' (great name) but it claims to neutralise cat pee smells. I used it in our dining room and it seems to have worked. I've got some left that we obviously won't be using, I'd be happy to dig it out and send it to you if you want, saves us finding it in 15 years time and wondering whether we should have binned it sooner...

aaaah, chulita, i do feel for you re the cat. much as i feel like they're conspiring against me, i'm not ready to get rid just yet. they didn't ask me to get a baby, but the stink!!!!!!

I meant to do blw, but the imperative to get solids into him has taken over, so we are having great, messy fun. or should i say, anyone else that happens to want to have a go is having great fun, am great abdicator of that responsibility.

we're all going on holiday next week, so am looking forward to family time and giving dh a really good go at night feeds, day to day responsibility, and catching up on a few naps myself......famous last words!!!

Ha ha! I've tried a sleep routine and it did stop DD waking every 2 hours til she got her (I think) 6 month growth spurt and now a cold and I haven't got the guts to do it again cos I didn't enjoy doing it. The changes I made to her room helped a lot by not stimulating her and making it pretty boring...she usually goes down for naps quite well. I think as long as she's feeding well at each night feed I'll just leave it, the reason I started the training was cos she wasn't really wanting it every time...deffo going to try it once this cold has gone cos I'm not a happy girl at mo.
The shushing doesn't work for DD, she either stops crying and giggles or screams so it's either a feed or just let her scream...

Is the general feel on this board that we just have to roll with these wakings and ideally feed them when they wake? Have people who've tried any form of sleep training found there has been any point whatsoever? I'm worried I'll be burnt at the stake for admitting trying to train my son out of some of his night wakings!

He's been waking 3-4 times a night since about 3 months - he's now 4.5 months. About a fortnight ago I just couldn't take getting up every two hours all night as decided I would feed him just the once during the night. On the other occasions he woke I sat next to his cot and shshshed and every now and again spoke very quietly so he knew I was there. Doing this, the longest he has ever cried is 15m, and sometimes it's just a minute or so. The great theory was that he'd decide on some 4 month old level that there was no point waking before five or six hours was up as there was no food forthcoming. Some nights he does just wake the once for a feed, others I'm getting up at least one other time to shshsh and reassure, but now I read that I can see it's actually not that bad at all. Maybe my system is kind of working.

DD was such a creature of habit that I've developed the mindset that if I let DS feed several times a night now he'll want to for years! It took a fair bit of work getting DD into good habits which has rather got me on the balls of my feet with DS and good habits. Today I am simply too tired to have any judgment whatsoever as I had a late night and then fed DS each time he woke last night (twice) as we were staying at my parents and I just couldn't brazen out 15 mins of crying. He's being a pain about napping today and suddenly sleep is looming large. I think I'm wondering if it's worth carrying on sticking to the one feed a night, or if what I'm doing isn't having an effect. I don't know why I expect anyone here to know how my DS is reacting!

and staines, don't get me started on cats... DH gave ours to a more loving home about 2 weeks ago. Ever since DD was born he crapped everywhere (the cat, not DH)...and I mean everywhere - behind the tv, in the kitchen, right on the doorstep etc. I think he'd have worked through it but DH had enough after 20 odd weeks of it. I might smuggle one in now that he's away again

That's what this thread's for right? Having a good old whinge when we're absolutely knackered!!
DD went through a horrific stage from about 8-12wks when she did about 10 feeds between 7pm and 5am and then only fed 2/3 times during the day. HV said to offer more during the day so she wouldn't get used to feeding all night...as if I wasn't doing that already sometimes I swear they are soooo patronising. DH was away the whole time as well so I did actually want to just lie down and die after about a week - but we made it!! Small victories eh?! Anyhoo, the point is that DD sometimes decides nights are more fun for feeding but she has gone back to mostly daytime. Colds deffo throw everything off, pesky bugs...I can't remember how many times I woke up last night but all I really wanted was a good slug of Night Nurse and maybe 8 straight hours...remember those days?? My dad assures me they'll be back - hah!
We're doing BLW just cos I am lazy and the thought of pureeing stuff - sheesh, that's actually effort! DD loves it too but she doesn't get much down and it's very messy. It is easy to give her half a strawberry and a couple of green beans and leave her to it though. HV (nice one, not patronising one) said that if you start before 6 months then fruit and veg are perfect...
Man alive...I do ramble...hope everyone has a nap filled day!!

Hi everyone. sorry, i sounded like a right whingebag yesterday.....what was really worrying me was that ds was getting alllll his feeding in during the night - fed between 3 and 5 and then not again til 10.30am. Not a pattern I want to work on developing!

he's 23 weeks today,and has been eating banana and baby rice and mush for a couple of weeks -tbh it just seems like more work at the moment!

Thanks for responses though fg and chegirl, am normally a very positive person, just this bloody sleep deprivation, worrying about getting it all wrong, and all 4 of our cats have started peeing all over the house and am feeling like I'm not paranoid, they are out to get me!!!

Oh Staines that's miserable but, in fairness, not dissimilar to most of our nights! DS wakes regularly every three hours on a good night, every two hours on a bad one.

The only diff is that our early morning two hour sessions of being awake are him laughing and playing with whatever he can get his hands on rather than screaming. Sounds like teeth but I'm no expert!

Re solids, how old is he? DS is nearly 25 weeks and has been playing with proper food this week; like Chulita, I reckon it's OK for some fruit and veggies. We're doing BLW so it's (a) not as messy as spoon feeding mush, (b) much more fun and (c) things like chunks of cucumber are great for sore gums.

Hi fg, one week tomorrow and I'm off to the six monther. Lost internet for couple of days and I've been so bored with this crap weather so not many walks and DD still waking up far too often. I got a cold and have now passed it on to her so she's sleeping even less. Argh...
staines you're not getting it wrong. DD's been waking every 2 hours for the last 10 days and doing the 2 hour scream fest for about 3 nights. She's been funny with her feeds too, apart from demanding it every 2 hours, yesterday and today she wants it every 2-3 hours but only wants one boob surely if she's hungry she'd want both?? Maybe tonight will be better for both of you...[fingers crossed] (hang on, got to get baby Chulita crying after 30 min nap [sigh]) I've been giving her bits and bobs of food for a while now cos she steals it off my plate given half a chance but she doesn't eat much. I think they do need a bit more milk at this stage but I don't see any harm in letting them have a chomp on some broccoli if they want to...not that I know anything about weaning Ok, so not answering your question at all Even when they start eating solids not much goes down so it's not an instant fix. Hopefully last night was a one off!!

oh woe, woe is me.....last night was mental. here is my schedule. can anyone make sense of it?

5.30 - 6.30 ds is bathed, creamed, changed, fed, in bed and happily going to sleep like a model baby

9pm ds wakes up for extra feed (?) - well feeding sent him back to sleep anyway

12pm, ds wakes for regular night time feed

3am ds wakes for 2 hour session of crying, feeding, winding, screaming, restlessness, and finally calpol induced sleep til 5 til 7.30

he doesn't eat 'breakfast' until now.

his cheeks are very ruddy today, so am assuming this may have something to do with teething, but the feeding's still all wrong isn't it.

i am getting it so wrong aren't i. ,,.

he's not ready for solids - everything goes all over his face/clothes/me when i try to feed him, but am i creating the problem here?

alternatively, please advise me that this is just a one off!

fg - thanks, but i was really stupid and got a bit drunk (doesn't take much) and we were staying in a really old, really creaky hotel. so woke up at 4.30 am with enormo boobs and a raging thirst, couldn't get back off til 7am!!!!!!! am still paying the price now.....have only got about 3 more weeks on here myself, hopefully we won't see each other on the six month thread?!

Happy anniversary Staines. Hope you had a nice night

Hello all, we've had a reasonable weekend with a couple of nights with only one or two feeds but we're still dealing with the waking for an hour from 3.30-4.30 which has clearly become an ingrained habit so I'm wondering whether to try the wake to sleep thing. The idea of setting my alarm for 3am is just hideous though!

Hi JJ, re the FF vs BF, I've been asking around about this too (not coz I want to stop, more in desperation and general nosiness) and most people seem to say it doesn't make any difference. I was talking to someone today whose BF 3 month old sleeps 8 hour stretches which made me really irrationally and and a friend's FFed DD (now 2 yo) was just as bad as my DS is and worse than her BFed DS (2 mo).

Kiwi, sorry to hear DD's poorly, DS has been too which is just sooo miserable. I get well cross when he gets ill (this is his third cold) because I think that all that BFing has got to have been for something and if not for boosting his immunity then what?!

I've only got another 2 weeks here , then I'm off to the six month thread; Chulita, I've seen you there while I've been lurking, when do you graduate?

Morning [yawn] after a single one-off sleep from 8 to 3.30 dd has got even worse. Wakes herself up at 11ish by flipping onto her front, won't settle back unless she's on the boob, then for the last three nights has spent the rest of the night rolling back and forth against me, usually still attached to the nipple [ouch ouch ouch]. If I try to PPO her off she gets cross, if she seems asleep and I try to put her in the cot she gets even crosser. As a result I have no idea how much sleep she's actually got (is she awake while flailing back and forwards?) and I've had even less.

she's managed a few decent naps during the day (2 hours yesterday in a oner!) and generally very active and wriggly the rest of the time, is there any way we can persuade her to calm down at night? Blackout blinds, grobag etc have stopped working. We're thinking of putting her in her own room really quite soon in case it's us disturbing her/my presence next to her giving her somehting to wake up for, but I really can't face the idea of having to go down the hallway every time she wakes up to try and settle her with my boob between the cot bars!

Hey guys, how's sleep-deprivation corner?

I have added to my woes by finally deciding to take DD out of the swaddle (at 21 weeks..) - so now she's waking every hour at most, I think because she's just not used to having the freedom to move her arms around! God I hope she gets over that soon... She's also discovered how to roll onto her front and does it every 5 minutes, including in the cot, leaving me with dilemma of "should I turn her over or not??"

Oh, and to add to that, she's had a cold and a cough, has not been feeding brilliantly and as a result has, I'm pretty sure, dropped well below her centile line - she was only on 9th so she's not got a long way to fall..

Sob

Hi JJ, not sure re switch to formula, as am still bfing. very similar sleep pattern to you too.

i have discovered a miraculous way to get my ds to take naps during the day in his cot - was very difficult before. I put him down after he's been up for about two hours, he doesn't have to appear particularly sleepy, though i always put him down when he grizzles, lie him on his back and pat him vigorously on his chest and stomach. enough to make his body move on the bed. in the rhythm of a heartbeat. it works every time within 2 minutes max. worked for my sil yesterday. even patting the bed in the same rhythm seems to work. obviously, may just apply to my ds.

unfortunately i still don't seem to have cracked night times though.

So glad to see that I'm not alone! My 17 week old has never slept through the night, but until a couple of weeks ago we were getting away with one night feed between 10.30pm and 7am. The last couple of weeks have been awful, he slept better when he was a few weeks old, now he barely manages 2 hour stretches at night, and will only nap during the day in his pram or car seat.

We're wondering if he is teething, there is a small white spot on his gum, and if he is really screaming at night then he will drop off to sleep easily after a dose of Calpol. We just don't want to get into the habit of giving him Calpol to make him sleep.

He also sleeps better when I have him in bed next to me, so I was wondering whether the frequent wakings are also due to breastfeeding and the fact that he is used to feeding frequently? Do people that are formula feeding have such sleeping problems? I've never really got on with breastfeeding and am probably ready to start phasing it out, but don't want to assume that moving to formula will make it all better!

It's all making me too depressed to meet up with my antenatal class buddies, all of whom have babies that manage long stretches at night!

so........all quiet on the sleep front??? we stayed at a hotel last night for our anniversary so sil had ds. he slept from 7 til 1 am, then through til 6!!! why when i'm not there???!!

for baby Chulita. Hope she settles for you soon.

baby chulita's feeding about every 2 hours since Monday, night and day [bleary] she won't settle tonight either so I've done the 2nd feed in 2 hours and she's slept for 20 mins and is fussing again. I'm wondering if it's teeth and a growth spurt mixed but her little cry is heartbreaking. Maybe Calpol...grr...

My niece is nearly 4 and she still wakes up twice a night and is ready to get up at 5am most days <<gloomy emoticon>> My SiL's solution was to do a loft conversion for her bedroom and have a spiral staircase that my niece can't climb

At the time I thought it was a bit harsh but I'm now beginning to understand...

We've recovered a bit from Monday now; we've both had a cold so have spent two days doing very little and have actually had two reasonable nights. Last night I just did two feeds and no other wakings which was lovely.

Because of being ill, DS hardly fed at all on Monday so in desperation I gave him some baby rice before bed which he enjoyed so much that I did it again last night too. I dunno if that's had positive impact and explains our good sleeps.

So much for my high minded ideas about not weaning before 6 months. Needs must I suppose...

I think we just have to celebrate every 4 hour stretch we get. I've got a friend with 3yr old twins and she's still up most nights I'm hoping that's unusual!!

The fact that the equivalent thread for 6 month olds is even bigger than this one is slightly troubling though...

DD's sleep has gone from bad to worse I have to keep reminding myself that it will pass (hopefully )

We're back on the 1.5/2 hourly wake ups again. I did enjoy our brief foray into the world of 2 feeds a night [nostalgic sigh] I'm really hoping this is just her 6mth growth spurt a little early...

Yes, - it ends, it ends, I promise

fg that's scary... Hope you're OK.
Things aren't great here either as we've also had two disastrous nights. God, is this ever going to end?

Gah, not even going to go into details about the last two nights. Suffice to say I VERY nearly dozed off whilst driving this morning and swerved just in time to avoid ending up in a hedge.

Glad you've had a nice weekend Chulita <<weary >>

hi chulita - yes, i often feel quite choked when i can hear ds having a chat with his feet!

Morning all! We're back from the seaside (why isn't there a droopy-eyed emoticon???) DD wasn't too bad but has decided (obviously after getting ideas from this thread) that 4am is a brilliant time to wake up and sing for an hour or so...ay ay ay. Not nice but lovely at the same time she sounds so precious and gorgeous but we'd rather she saved it for later!
And yes all you aunts/uncles/grandparents etc, DD is a fabulous baby. Ati, what a question: is she a good baby? Of course she is...she's just forgets that sleeping is a good idea, that's all

"when they turn into a well balanced highly intelligent teenagers" - sleep deprivation prevents me from stringing a coherent sentence together too...

here here fg, step away from the baby books! i have come to the conclusion that it's just the baby you've ended up with.....if they're a good sleeper then you are very lucky and should just keep quiet about it, and if they're not then you shall receive your reward when they turn into a well balanced highly intelligent teenagers.......see you in 12.5 years!

ncss is good in a couple of respects - not all babies sleep through even at 9 months. and co-sleeping isn't detrimental. hooray!

Kiwi, as Superd says, fennel is great for wind; it's what old fashioned gripe water's made from which works like a charm for DS who sometimes gets a bit trapped windy after his bath (apparently doesn't work for everyone though).

I've stopped reading baby books; they piss me off in so many ways. Even NCSS is beginning to wind me up now because I've been doing everything she says for about two months and it's made no discernible difference.

I took DS into my work this week, next time I introduce him to new people I'm just going to have a T-shirt made up in advance that says:

"NO, MY BABY DOES NOT SLEEP THROUGH THE NIGHT YET".

I'm soooo bored of it now. It's the first thing that people ask and I just know they're judging and thinking that I'm one of those idiots who has no bed-time routine.

After an hour and a half of screaming from 4.30-6.00 this morning I was just about to get up and add baby rice to the shopping list. Then at breakfast I let DS gum away at some of my toast with mashed banana and he threw it all straight back up again so I guess that shows me that he's not ready for weaning yet. Hey ho...

Good evening Ladies,
So... The night before last was a first. DS was all sweetness and light and slept for a mammoth 7pm-4am stretch! Not even a whimper. So stupified was I at this impeccable behaviour that I was convinced that something was wrong and compulsively checked on him every 10 minutes from 1am. Complete insanity and I acutally had one of the worst nights yet. Fool.
Anyway, it all went a bit pear-shaped last night as DS developped a rather nasty cough which kept waking him (and me) up (the poor little tot hacks like a old man with a lifelong 20-a-day Woodbines habit). That's what you get for not making hay while the sun shines.
kiwi, I share your frustration. I have yet to read a book that has NOT said that babies "should" be sleeping though the night at 4 months (DS is 18 weeks). I find it infuriating! The last thing an already desperate situation needs is that kind of pressure! Having said that though, I wonder where all the posters on this thread are in real life, as I have yet to meet a mother with the same issues as I do. Seriously, if I meet one more smug mother boasting about her baby's perfect sleep habits, I swear I will spontaneously combust.
By the way, regarding your LO's wind problems, have you tried weak fennel tea? Sounds weird, and I have to say that I haven't tried it, but have heard that it is quite the miracle cure.
fg and staines... Am thrilled to report that dressing gown was actually washed today!
Sleep well everyone!

Incidentally I picked up the Baby Whisperer book for a read today. The sentence that depressed me most was the one about at 4 months (DD is 20 weeks) "you should be thinking of dropping the night feed".

THE night feed? Just one????

I bloody wish

Hey guys, I've been away from this thread for a while because DD was getting a bit better but last night was a nightmare - fed at 7, woke about 4 times, fed again at 11, woke at 12, went back to sleep after some effort then woke screaming at 1 and didn't go back to sleep until 3 after 2 hours of yelling - I think with trapped wind (a reccurent problem - is there anything I can do??) and then fed again. Was ok after that - slept for a few hours but my head hurts.

I swear EVERYONE I know outside of MN-ers has babies who sleep at the very least in 4 hour stretches.

I really wouldn't mind if DD fed every 3 hours through the night if she slept in between like she used to. But now it's the endless resettling, waking with wind etc etc that's getting to me.

Afteroon folks

Been at my parents' house and dd was terrible. Having thought we were gradually improving she started refusing to sleep for even a full hour at a time again She did one ok night "just" waking every 2 hours and going back to sleep again but ds timed night terrors for right in between each and every one of dd's wakings <frustrated>

She had been looking like she was settling better, a couple of times she stirred and resettled herself and once I managed ot put her back down awake after a feed and she stayed asleep, blinking miracle that was but the past couple of nights she has been a nightmare to settle and is getting really hard to put down for naps too. Had been giving a finger to suck rather than a dummy to do the NCSS dummy removal thing as is easier to feel when the sucking is slowing so now she won't take a dummy and insists on sucking a finger to sleep

Still, last night, first night back home she did

7 sleep
9.15 feed
11.30 feed
1 feed
2.15 feed
3.30 resettle
6.00 feed
7 up for the day

am impressed at the 2.15 to 6 without feeding <hopeful>

I seem to be constantly telling DP to be quiet sometimes. He always says "I forget..." and I scream say to him "Well you wouldn't if you were the one spending an hour getting DS back to sleep!!!"

Been having some luck with baby smurf (I have just really jinxed myself haven't I!). For the last 4 nights, he has had 1 feed (after a DF) at around 2-3am and that's it. He's been waking at 6.30-7am too.

I don't know if it's a coincidence but he does seem to have settled since having formula at bedtime and for the last 2 days, he's had a little baby rice at teatime too. He took that really well with very little spitting out which has made me think that although he's 22 weeks, he was ready.

The naps have gone to hell though!!! Total screamathons again!

you guys just made me when i really thought i was ready to pass out! going to bed now, no dream feed, just going to see what happens....good luck to everyone!

We have an en suite toilet and I told DP off one night for peeing too loud!!

Staines What is it with men's volume controls? My DH could wake the dead just moving around the house!

He's not as bad as my mum though, deaf old bat!

i was living in a fool's paradise! first off dh woke ds at 10pm by talking to me down the stairs too loud - i was talking back, but as i hissed furiously, i was doing it in a low tone. then - get this - dh suggested i 'need to get ds into a sleep routine'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dh very unpopular this morning. apparently i should have known this was not a criticism, but the fact i was wound up shows that i am being 'precious'. hmmmmmmmm. dh to sleep in spare room for foreseeable future methinks.

an average night for ds and i. woke at 1.30 and 4.30 and wide awake by 6 and no amount of pillows over head would make him go away. hoping for a nap soon and then maybe i'll get out of my dressing gown. hope everyone else fared well!

at our dressing gowns.

Superd I am tres about your DH. Mine is rubbish at night. I would rather be exhausted than have to cope with his foulness when he can't settle DS within five mins. He gets so stressed and irritable that it just winds DS up and makes it worse. Then I get pissed off and we all end up getting no sleep at all!

Glad that we all seemed to have a reasonable night last night (except poor Phee ).

DS only spent an hour and a bit screaming at me for no good reason last night. I eventually hauled him in really close to me and pretty much gagged him with my boob which bought me two and a half hours of uninterrupted sleep.

Staines I had a few of those amazing nights back in ye olden dayes when DS was five weeks. He did 10.30 - 5.30 and my god did we think we were bloody brilliant. Then he had a growth spurt and that was that.

Here's to tonight, and hoping that all of our DCs can follow baby Chulita's golden example!

superd Cottage cheese dressing gown is the latest thing in my neck of the woods.

sure i'm living in a fool's paradise, i feel optimistic for tonight. last night ds had a df at 11, fed at 3.30, went BACK IN HIS OWN COT without murmur (first time in a long time) til 6, had another feed and then we slept together til 7. i remember <<staines comes over misty eyed>> one night when ds was 12 weeks exactly and he slept from midnight to 7 am. i thought i'd cracked it! maybe that will happen again by the time he's 5!

Hello everyone,
Fg and Staines... am thrilled to know that my penchant for posset covered dressing gowns is shared by others. Together with my grey skin and red eyes, I am quite the oil painting these days .
Anyway, last night was a bit better, not because DS did anything differently, but because DH banished me to the spare room, bringing DS over for feeding, and dealing with everything else himself. Totally rocked my world and I woke up this morning feeling bright eyed and bushy tailed... God, I actually showered, took DS to a museum and went to visit a friend!
Phee, good luck with the pu/pd which is something we're considering as well, although I'm completely terrified. Let us know how it goes!
Hope the night is a peaceful one for us all!

Hana DH was laid on the other side of me doing it too, not sure if they were having a competition I was seriously considering sleeping on the settee Fingers crossed here for you too

DD is tucked up in bed, am hoping she stays there

Someone has stolen baby Chulita and replaced her with a sleeping beauty...I can't believe the way she's going at the mo, she must be building up for a growth burst or something. I got up once last night and actually got a lie-in til half 7!! Where's my child gone??
We're off for a weekend at the seaside tomorrow though so I have a feeling this is all going to pot; be ready for a good old whinge session from moi Sunday afternoon!!

Am crossing fingers, because we had a good night last night - back to just 2 feeds which is fine. at farting phee sounds like she wasn't her normal self.

Hi everyone, thanks feralgirl for the link to this thread

I started another thread on DD's sleep here

My sister lent me a copy of 'The Baby Whisperer' so we are planning on trying her pick up/put down method as it seems a good compromise. I think we may try it on Saturday night so DH can do the first night as he is less likely to give in than me

Had a bad night last night. DD went to bed at 7pm then woke at 7.30 to finish her bottle. She went straight back to sleep but woke again at 10 and we were able to settle her back down quite quickly. She then woke at 1 so I brought her into our room and she basically catnapped on and off with a period of being awake for a couple of hours. I think she had tummy ache as she kept farting. She then woke up for good at 6.30

better night here last night, after ds rejected the formula, so am at a loss to think why....i guess we're all just in the same stage of one step forward, two steps back, and am starting to think maybe it makes no difference what we do! though ds did have more naps yesterday.....

fg - i'm supposed to be going back to work on 23rd june. am so - and it's only 3 days a week in the office! had been hoping that i could manage feeding him ebm and some solids and keep up the bfing in mornings and evenings.....how naive am i!?

superd and fg i have an upstairs and a downstairs dressing gown (get me!) - they've both got sick on, no idea how old!

Ahh, those horrible arguments in the miserable grey dawn light. We've had a fair few of those too. DH and I threatened each other with divorce this week which is a new all time low. I don't think we meant it though...

Superd, I'm heartened by the fact that I'm not the only one who spent the day in a dressing gown. Does yours have two day old sick stains on it too?

Staines I'm giving it until the end of this month and then DS is going to have to start having some FFs to get him used to it before I go back to work in July. I'm so despondent about the idea it makes me want to cry just thinking about it so I sort of understand how you feel. I have to say, reading what you said about last night almost tempts me to start early though. We'll see how desperate I feel after a couple more weeks of no sleep!

jumpjockey that sounds awful. I go to bed every night with a sense of dread that it's going to be one of those nights.

fg it's so harsh that we get lulled into thinking we might have turned the corner and then our hopes are dashed again.

staines confession.....I have resorted to giving some formula too . He has been having a bottle of formula to settle for the last week. Seems to have helped a bit, particularly with settling for the 1st part of the night. I'm trying not to let it bother me too much (but it does a bit).

superdanovi sounds like you've had a really rough day. Hope you get some sleep tonight.

It does help knowing that I'm not the only one going through all of this. Thanks everyone.

Hello again all. Fg, sorry to hear about how rubbish things are. We've had a completely dreadful 24 hours too - highlights of which include a 4:30am waking, massive row with DH at 5:00 and a deafening fire alarm going off in the building just as DS had settled for his morning nap. Poor thing was so scared that he didn't nap for the rest of the day. Needless to say, I have been a tearful, bathrobe-clad, unshowered, catatonic mess all day.

Here's to a better night to everyone out there!

jump jockey - can you throw tidy away your dh's stuff so at least there is another bed one of you can get away to? i find it much more stressful when dh is there and ds is fussing / laughing / kicking me repeatedly in the stomach.

I have a confession to make - after repeated suggestions by a close friend last night i gave ds 3.5 oz of formula in the hope that it would help him sleep through. it's ridiculous - i have no issue with other mums ff ing -whatever works for you etc etc, but i felt so glum at giving him formula - i am sure i'm being precious. but........after a df of half ff and half bf at 10.30 he woke at 2.30, had a feed, think he fell asleep on the boob, as did i, woke again briefly at 4.30 and woke properly at 6. and had a nap at 7.30. it sounds crap written down, but it is a vast improvement. still not sure if i will give formula again tonight.....

Hi Superdanovi and Hanaflower (sorry hana, missed your post yesterday, wasn't ignoring you deliberately) and hello everyone else too.

Chulita, I'm saying nothing to your post re last night other than

Jumpjockey, that sounds hideous. One of those nights where you're tempted to just get in the car by yourself, drive as far away from the house as possible and sleep in a layby somewhere, no?

Well, so much for my one lovely sleep on Monday night; last night was HELL! Up for a feed every two hours until 4.30 and then two hours of wide-awake-rolling-around-on-the-bed-laughing. One more hour of sleep then pinging awake at 7.30. Clearly we're having a growth spurt. Serves me right for dishing out advice and feeling pleased with myself.

Spent god knows how long trying to get --the little sod-- DS to nap on his back in his crib today but it all just ended in tears (me and him).

I had a blocked milk duct today too so have been in bloody agony (although I think I've sorted it now).

Feeling v for myself!

Are we allowed to have a negative whinge on this thread? cos dd was in bed at 6, fed again at 8 then slept til 2 and didn't wake up again til half 6 She never got the whole 4-5 month regression, until 19 wks she'd NEVER slept longer than 3 hours at a time and that was once in a blue moon. Since about 19 weeks she has a couple of good nights a week and even her bad nights are only maybe 3 wake up sessions...shouldn't have written that, I'll have the night from hell tonight!!

smurfette - we'll all join you on that one! I'd kill for more than an hour's sleep in a row...

dd did her farting thing again only at 11, wouldn't settle until 12, then woke again at 2. Then at 4 nneding a change, peed over the mat and her clothes so by the time she'd been re-changed and dressed, was all playful but wouldn't go back to sleep, turned into crying and I took her downstairs* and eventually got her off at 6am. Then she woke again at 7

* spare bed has been covered in stuff dh is meant to be tidying away for, ooh about 2 months now. He's got to sleep for work, so I have to take dd out of the bedroom...

Hi all

staines like the pillow over the head tactic!

DS had his 1st night without the musical light show thing and <touches every piece of wood in reach> it went ok. I was expecting hell but he settled after a very short grumble at 7pm, DF at 11pm, woke at 1.30am but I left him and he resettled himself after about 5mins, woke for feed at 3.30am and then slept til 8am!!

Please please please don't be just a fluke!! I am on the verge of selling my soul to the devil for a decent nights sleep and to be able to start a "My DC sleeps 10 hours a night, til 10am on a Sunday and I have a headache from too much sleep!" thread.

I think I might have found my new spiritual home and wanted to show appreciation. Ladies, I feel your pain! Chez moi, everything in the sleep department is completely pants... in fact our catalogue of sleep-related woes is impressive: multiple night wakings, early wakings (5am, oh god) AND catnapping!! Honestly, I would despair if only I had the energy.

Hi all - fg - that sleep sounds beautiful! ds woke up to chat and play with his feet repeatedly last night, but gave in and slept from 5am til 8.30am and it makes allllll the difference! just one stretch of uninterrupted sleep makes me a new woman. am nervous for tonight - virtually no napping today - will i pay the price???
jumpjockey - i can't remember what my back used to feel like, it feels like a corkscrew now!

I think dd has caught ds's tummy bug, watery nappies, sicking up lots, constantly at the breast. I feel all empty and deflated as though I have no milk, like you do mid growth spurt. She slept most of the night but restlessly and superglued to my nipples so I didn't sleep much. Still, on the plus side that is 4, or is it 5?, nights without a party at 3am

A family friend told me yesterday that being awake in the wee small hours for a party is said to be a sign of intelligence <<starts saving for uni funds>>

Hello all, isn't it weird how all our babies are awake and up for a bit of a play at exactly the same time? I wondered whether it's a circadian rhythm thing because it's now summer. DS always wakes just as it's beginning to get light even though our room is v dark and he naps fine in much lighter conditions during the day. I did wonder whether the dawn chorus wakes him too.

Jezza my only tactic with the hour of wanting to play is to whack on the white noise and just ignore DS giggling and gurgling away. He seems to be getting better so I don't know if it's down to my ignoring or just him growing up a bit.

Jumpjockey, DS went through a phase of waking himself letting rip during one of his growth spurts a while back. I gave him a him a preventative lug of gripe water before bed for the duration of the spurt which seemed to sort it. Might be worth a go...

The NCSS pull-off has worked for me but I've had to be really persistent. I started just doing it during the day and it's def made a difference. I still let him comfort suck a bit before bed - ususally because I'm not paying attention - but quite often he'll let go and I won't even register.

I'm finding it sooo hard to resist the urge to start on solids; everyone I know with babies DS's age is shovelling food into them like anything. I read the MN advice on weaning last night and reminded myself of all the reasons to wait so I am determined to be patient.

And last night was our best for ages. He woke for a nuzzle at 10.45 but went straight back to sleep but was up at 12.30ish for a quick feed. He then slept until 4.30 when he had a big feed and then went back down again until 6.30. When I write it down it sounds a bit crap but I felt great this morning!

<<whispers, so as not to tempt fate>> Maybe he'll start only waking once soon!

Hello again everyone, fell off the thread

well dd still doing her "bed at 7.30, up at 11.30 for a mammoth fartathon" thing. Anyone have any ideas what this might be? She sleeps perfectly happily for about 4 hours, then starts squriming and flailing about and then wakes herself up and will only be put back to sleep with boob. And is then generally in the bed next to me, but is soo bloody wriggly I get no sleep and have a dodgy back from ending up edging further across the bed every night as she right angles her legs into my tum. Will sleep if nipple is in her mouth, I've tried the NCSS pull-off a few times but she gets all cross and wakes up, no matter how asleep she might seem before then.

She also wakes up at about 5.30 and is super playful, I wouldn't mind but she's right next to me in the sidecar crib or in the bed and I can't sleep through it

re weaning, after being helpfully told by one of dh's colleagues that both her bpoys slept through after being put on solids at 4 months, we tried dd with a bit of pureed veg and she shoved it straight back out again, so we're at least able to tell people to sod off and stop saying weanweanwean, our baby's not ready for it yet. She grabbed hold of a bit of mango but it went in her mouth and straight back out again.

WMD is a fantastic book, bit of a bible in our house

with regards to night waking for play time, i freely admit that i feed, change, cuddle, and if there's still no sign of sleep, he goes back in the crib and the pillow goes over my head. dh goes in the spare room for the time being!!!

I might be just incredibly stubborn but my day doesn't start before 6am and it never has since having DD. If she fusses and wants to wake up I'll go in and re-settle (in other words feed cos nothing else even remotely works) but I won't talk to her or engage with her. Sometimes she'll be lying in her cot chatting/singing away for a while but she gets the hint. She doesn't cry so much at night now but she makes a lot of fuss with intermittent grunting and the occasional wail so just as I give up and throw the quilt back she's quiet...for another 10 mins then she'll fuss for about 30 secs then go quiet again...argh...gets very tedious!! But she's still absolutely gorgeous

Hi All,

Just found this thread have not been on MN for a while - what a godsend my DS1 is now 20 weeks and seems to be worse than 8 weeks with the sleeping!! and he never sleeps past 6am.

Was wondering if any one has any advice?? he goes down after a feed at 7pm he wakes at 12am, he wakes again at about 4am most nights but does not seem to want a feed just to chat and play around should I try to feed him anyway? He is Breastfed and I have started to introduce baby rice and first vegi puries in the last couple of weeks once a day???

Oh also just moved him inro his own room!!

Any advice would be great

Hello can I join? DS 23 weeks, breastfed, co-sleeping. Used to wake twice a night, since 4 days ago seems permanently attached to the boob all night. Am exHausted!.
He is not on solids yet - has played with food since Saturday (BLW style) but nothing has been swallowed yet.

I'm determined to say that baby Chulita was ebf for 6 months even though she does have a gnaw on stuff every now and then. I haven't found that she sleeps any better after a few spoons of carrot but maybe some would say I don't do it for long enough. Like you said feral, if they grab it and shove it in you may as well let them dribble all over it. I'd like to do BLW too...mainly cos the idea of purees...[bored to tears emoticon]
Last night she woke every 2hrs for no apparent reason; she wasn't really bothered with feeding and didn't want to settle back after her feeble 5 minute suck. Might have had something to do with the fact that DH had to get up for work at 5am and I really wanted her to be quiet so he could sleep...bearing in mind the night before she slept from 6pm til 2:30am and then again til 6...another one like that would have been amazing. What do you do with them when they're awake for no reason at all that you can work out but it's the middle of the night??

Hi fg, well, we had bil and his gf for lunch today - they were vociferous supporters of shoving something solid down his neck so i've just tried him on some avocado - recommended by sil as v high fat - and up came 20 minutes worth of breast feeding! so back to the drawing board....i am also comforting myself with the fact that he's 21 weeks tomorrow, so i only have 3 weeks to feel guilty about not doing it by the book! and he's in the 75th centile.

another thing i keep remind myself, he's absolutely lovely exactly as he is, so i should just stop wishing this time away. though saturday was a particularly bad day! and talking about it on here really, really helps.
thanks everyone - here's to a good night tonight!

Cheers for support and advice guys, much appreciated. MiLs eh, who'd have 'em?!

I'm working really hard on self-settling for naps at the mo so today I left him in his bed when he still looked wide awake and went to have a shower. I just checked on him and he's fast asleep; he giggled a bit and then grumbled for a minute or two and silence ever since <touches wood furiously!>

We had a slightly better night last night, although he was awake for an hour from 4.45 - 5.45. I was beginning to get desperate and then he just popped off back to sleep, only fed a couple of times I think but it's all abit hazy.

Staines,what a coincidence. Bizarrely, I've not fully decided to introduce solids yet but just to start making DS aware of them so today I sat him on my lap while I was eating my toast. He took a swipe at it, played with it a bit and then smushed it into his mouth which was very exciting! I know it's not the ideal first food but we're planning on doing BLW anyway so I'm not too bothered. Although does that now mean I can't claim he was exclusively BF for the first 6mos?

He's also started rolling over this weekend so big times for the feralchild!

Hi again, another rubbish night,but i was strangely comforted when i spoke to my bf yesterday - lives in oz, so we don't get to talk often - her response was 'he's hungry, he's hungry, he's hungry'. 'don't bother doing a diary, it won't last forever, and think again about introducing some solids....' it was much harder to pooh pooh her suggestions as she's just been through it and bf'ed to 16 months. so he's had two mouthfuls of banana this morning. it feels momentous!
the chapter i'm reading at the moment in WMD is all about being snappy to your dh. very apt!!!

My MIL is always telling me her 3 slept for two hours in the morning and an hour and a half in the afternoon. She hasn't shown me how she did it yet though! I'm ignoring routines again for a while and am just going to manage the best way that I can.

Argh feral that's a horrendous night . I think it's funny when I say dd was up a lot at night and they call it a blip, I call it a blip when she only wakes up once!
As for napping, let them sleep when they're tired or if they've been up for a while even if they look awake. Bollocks to more than 4 hours, on a good day dd sleeps two 2-2.5hr naps and one shorter one and she still goes to bed at 6pm. Some days she actually wakes up, has a bath/feed and goes back to bed and she's happy enough. As for 'not letting them sleep'...yea right!! Are you really going to wake a sleeping baby? or keep him up if he's had his 4 hour allocation? pish!!

Chulita I mught have spoken too soon! I had DS settled by 6.30 again this evening and he woke at 9.00 refusing to be settled without a feed. Although to be fair, he was knackered by 6.30 after a very energetic bath so he obviously didn't fill his belly before going down.

Staines I'm so sorry you're having such an awful time. Fingers crossed for a good night tonight. It's amazing what one 'decent' night's sleep can do for your state of mind the next day. Our poor DHs; I keep trying to encourage mine to have a look at the dadsnet threads as I think he'd find some comrades!

And I've just got a copy of WMD, looks good, cheers for the suggestion.

Well, DS and I had a good run of a few nights with only two or three wakings then last night was a real let down (my own fault for tempting fate obviously). He woke at 10.30, 12.00, 1.30, 3.30, 4.45 and decided to wake for proper at 5.30 . But then today he's napped for England and done an hour in the morning, 2.5 hours at lunch and an hour on and off in his pushchair this afternoon.

How much napping is too much? My MiL was round and she keeps saying to me (over and over and over), "the more sleep they get, the more they want" but my HV said not to let him do more than 4 hours. Who knows?!

feralgirl I just read what you wrote yesterday I'm chuffed it wasn't just a fluke with DD, I find it so odd that you put them in bed earlier and they sleep for longer...gutting that you have to wake up to feed though. I find some nights I lie awake waiting for the slightest noise so I can empty my boobs - there's no way I'm waking up to express!! DD's waking up twice a night now (ok, ok, I know that's nothing compared to what she was but I was enjoying my longer sleeps!) Gotta get her weighed this week and see if she's been growing

hey there! WMD etc is great, though i'm still not sure that dh's would get it (sorry to any understanding dh's out there) as I bought it with the same intention! it is comforting, to see, in writing, exactly what it is that we do when it looks like nothing, as it's so hard to explain! also very moving to see emotions that i had thought only i was feeling (!) described so eloquently.

another cr@p night - ds seems to have decided that the 7-11 time off for mummy is ov-er!

dh has taken him out in the car now in a desperate attempt to get a nap out of him. am feeling dreadful - snappy with dh and like i'm not really appreciating ds - he's still so happy, how can he be on 10 hrs sleep a day when he's supposed to get 14 -15? also, i don't really feel entitled to moan as i see from here that i don't really have it that bad! so sorry for myself today!

Hey fellow sufferers, how was last night?

staines I'm quite interested in getting the 'What Mothers Do......' book for DP to read . He seems to think I spend all my time lurking on MN

Well DS seems intent on lulling me into a false sense of security with a couple of reasonable nights with just 2 feeds, followed by horrendous nights like last night. He was awake every hour from 2am. I think I am being punished for procrastinating about the musical light show in his cot as he seemed to cry every time it stopped.

I will tackle that with earnest today and start with the naps. At least DP hasn't got work tomorrow if he does give us hell tonight.

i could kick my yesterday self - ds has napped a maximum of 40 minutes and i'm driving myself mental trying to get him to take one today...i preferred it when i denied any need for routine or naps....or sleep!

for baby Indith being bunged up, but for a reasonable night's sleep though!

DS too thinks that the hours of 2am-4am are for playing. He lies there giggling to himself which is just weird.

The tactic that I've adopted now is just to completely ignore him. I don't want to sound too much like she-who-must-not-be-named but I've found the best way to stop him is to go for a total black-out so he can't see anything at all. I usually have a very dim night light on so I can see to feed without fiddling about so I turn that off, turn the white noise on and just lie there very still so he's got as total sensory deprivation as poss! I've found he usually settles within ten mins or so - or I go to sleep before he does. So long as he's not crying, I just leave him to it.

I wouldn't worry too much about naps either. My friend's 5mo DD sleeps for about an hour in total during the day - on a good day - and invariably sleeps right through the night.

Well done feral that is great.Dd will sometimes fall asleep on her back next to me now, but only if she feeds to sleep but even then her arms start flailing and she wakes, then won't feed back to sleep as she isn't hungry

Ok so that glorious night was a fluke, but last night not too bad and much better than she has been so we'll see. She had a couple of resettles before we went to bed then slept until 11 when I fed her (I am trying not to feed before then, obviously if she is actually hungry I would) I fell asleep as she was feeding then she woke me up at 12.30 so I topped her up and put her back on her tummy. She next fed at 3 although I had to resettle her a few times. Unfortunately she then slept pretty fitfully until 5.20 when she wouldn't go back to sleep as she was seriously stuffed up and couldn't breathe poor girl. I am considering the fact that she has not tried to have a party in the wee small hours as a major breakthrough! She has napped a fair bit so far today though which I am now wary of since we've had 2 days of hardly any naps and 2 good nights. Still my instinct tells me to be lead by her for naps.

Paddingtonblue, me too. Although if one existed then I would be sorely tempted to go and post abuse through

Staines NCSS also made me cry. The bit about CC had me wailing through guilt from the time that I tried it out of desperation. It's not just a mum thing though, DH cried too!

Well, last night was a bit of a revelation actually; I did Chulita's tactic of getting DS ready an hour earlier than we have been and it was amazing! He was asleep by 6.30 and was just beginning to wriggle at 11.00. He might have carried on sleeping but my boobs were hurting so I fed him. That's 4.5 hours! Woop woop!

He then slept in bed with me and woke a few times but not enough for me to register them and he only had a couple of very quick feeds and we slept in until 7am, hurrah!

Am feeling optimistic enough to start doing a sleep log again - I'm so lame, whenever it's going badly I stop writing it down.

Even though it's going so much better this week, there is still a little nagging voice at the back of my head saying "teeeeeething"!

Just finding this thread may have saved my sanity!! I have a 5 mth old DS2 who has gone from waking a couple of times a night to BF to waking every hour and a half to two hours and not being able to settle after each wake and feed. We also have a DS1 who is 18 months so I am shattered as I can't make up the sleep during the day, they are in cahoots to not sleep at the same time ever . I am going to go through and read this thread to convince myself we am not alone in this, no matter how DH and I might feel at 2.00am and 4.00am.... and I am going to dig out the NCSS. I couldn't do anything like CC, but if we don't do something I am going to spend the rest of my life in tears. Well, at least the next few months. So pleased to know you are all out there, though I wish that we were on a 'My five month old sleeps so well' thread.

Well, i did say i'd spoken too soon - ds has just woken up screaming for the first time in 2 months - he has reliably slept 7 til 11 if at no other time in the day....still, as one of my friends says, this is just what has happened today. Indith, am so pleased for you - I guess it's always darkest before the storm?

Feralgirl, I do love NCSS, she is such a lovely woman, and it's such a relief to read such warm and empathetic words in relation to bringing up our children.

I was reading ' what mothers do especially when it looks like nothing' in a coffee shop today - was hard to keep tears out of my eyes!

Wow Indith, that's fab I am vvv , you certainly deserved it after your last horrible night!

DS will only sleep on his back if I am next to him in bed. He won't even consider settling like it in his own bed. I think you're about right in thinking that 2.5-3hours between feeds is 'reasonable'; shame the babes don't have the same ideas about how to be reasonable though isn't it?!

Staines NCSS is reassuring isn't it? I re-read it when I get desperate to reassure myself that we're doing all the right things and that it will eventually all be OK.

Well done Staines

We gave up on getting her on her back last night and decided to go for baby steps and start with dummy ditching so hopefully she won't feel the need to wake up every time she wriggles and loses it. Anyway I'm not sure if it was a fluke or not but....

She finally went off at 8.30ish then dh packed me off to bed in the spare room promising to do the first feed as I was a very tearful mess and doubting everything we were doing. She slept until 11.30 then had 5oz from a bottle but refused to go back down (I suppose the bottle doesn't have the comfort factor ) so was brought to me and nosed at the breast for 30 seconds before dropping off then slept until 4.30 had a good bf then slept until 7.15 No re-settles at all!

She hasn't napped much today but didn't yesterday either.Tonight we'll see if it was a fluke or not I suppose.

it's a start staines! Well done you and baby staines!

well i spoke too soon, he's awake again already! but happy.....

have just finished reading ncss - and have just 'made' ds go to sleep for the first time (without my nipple in his mouth!).

It is a wonderful book - normally i would put him down and leave it up to him if he goes off or not, if he got upset i would just assume that he didn't need a nap and couldn't bear to let him cry it out, but i have just done what she said and it worked, it worked!

still not sleeping through the night, but i feel so optimistic. this baby did not 'do' daytime naps. thank you mumsnet, thank you elizabeth pantley, thank you smurfette for suggesting it.

i have just burnt the bottom out of my favourite saucepan, but it doesn't matter cause this is such a good feeling!!

Oh my Goodness Indith...that sounds horrific! Did you have a better night last night??

I'm finding the talk of making the cot boring quite interesting. We don't have a mobile as dh broke it (was very as it was new) but dd does have some cot surround things she likes to look at.

Feral my parallel lives friend how have you gone about persuading him to sleep on his back?

Ok so my various theories after the horror that was last night made half hourly wakings seem like a mild discomfort.

1) we co-sleep but she doesn't snuggle, she has never wanted to. She sleeps in a co-sleeper side car thingy. So, does it disturb her being next to me? Bit of a non-starter really this road as we have nowhere else to put her really, I was going to keep her in with us until she slept through and then stick her in with ds.

2) She is a tummy sleeper, always has been, she has literally never slept on her back, she has always screamed at that. But, she gets pissed off being on her front when awake, is she getting annoyed during the light part of her sleep cycle and waking up and of course not getting back off because she is annoyed?

3) Dummy, it comes out, she wakes up, can't get back off. Mind you these days she screams even with it.

I've lost the plot for feeds, obviously I need to set a target as can't offer each time she wakes but I don't really know what is reasonable. I suppose 2.5 to 3 hourly?

Where do I start? Eating dinner in shifts tonight, dh up there trying to get her to settle on her back. Seems ridiculous when I don't even know why she keeps waking. Last night she woke 5 times before 3am then woke at 3 and would not go back to sleep at all, I really cannot survive on this!

I have been up since 3am yet am scarily lucid. Have been reading your thread. Must dig out NCSS from ds. I have theories. Shall return after bath and bed if I survive that long

Chulita, I'm going to try that with the cot I think, although I'm almost as attached to the mobile as DS is. Sometimes he'll wake up from a nap and I won't even realise because he's so absorbed in staring at it! I'm sure he'll appreciate it just as much if it's hanging above the changing table though.

I think I might try an earlier bedtime too, as it's nigh on impossible to get DS to stay awake for his final feed so I'm always inadvertantly feeding him to sleep. Thinking about it, he's waking earlier these days (6ish rather than 7ish) so it makes sense for him to go to bed earlier too.

DS was insisting on sleeping on his front which meant I was too scared to have him in my bed; I'd put him in his snugglenest on his front next to me but I found his wool wrap wasn't able to do it's job because his weight was on the wettest part and then he was wriggling and fussing from 4am onwards because he was getting a bit damp. I've managed to persuade him to sleep on his back again and so we've properly co-slept the last couple of nights which has made a HUGE differnce. He still woke every 2 hours last night but only needed feeding twice and settled dead quick each time so I feel great today!

I think I just decide to worry about a new thing every day! was reading NCSS whilst giving ds his bedtime feed. very comforting. though the sleep log is very daunting...

Well he can be more difficult but I cope with that better in the daytime.

As was said earlier, I try not to have him awake for much longer then 2 hours from when he last woke.

I also keep the routine the same every time - nappy, sing a song (poor boy!) then into cot. He takes a while to settle though but I'm persevering. I also leave him for a bit if he's just grumbling but I must admit that if I haven't managed to settle him after 30 mins, I give up for a while. And I usually resort to a walk in the pushchair at least once a day .

Today after putting him down, he grumbled for about 5 mins then was cooing and gurgling before dropping off. For me, that's a real result because I feel that he's finally realising that his cot is quite a nice place to be!

Now all I need to work on is getting him to nap for longer then 30-40mins....

daytime naps are the hardest for us - i put him down and he cries and cries unless we're out in the pushchair. As soon he sees me he's so happy and wide awake i find it really hard to persevere with the naps - though i do understand they may help with sleeping through. i have had some success with white noise helping him sleep in the daytime....does anyone have any more daytime tips?

Maybe I'll start tomorrow with the daytime naps 1st [cop-out emoticon]!

The first night without a mobile to distract was hard work, she did cry a lot and I don't think DH and I slept much at all. I also stopped jumping up at the first whimper and let her decide whether she actually wanted to cry or whether she was just letting us know she was still there (as if we could forget!!)
It is crazy how much you forget during the day though!!

LOL at baby club looks Chulita, thanks for the advice, I will also try removing mobile and putting a blanket over the bars as I often find her at the top of her cot peering through them after naps and early pm.

Feralgirl some of my relatives think I am a daft first time mum too, my sister me keeps asking if we've "got her to sleep through yet" which is not helpful! She did use CC with her DS at 6 months though and I don't want to go down that road at the moment, despite threatening considering it in the wee small hours. It is funny how much better everything does look and feel in the daylight hours!

Thanks chulita. I will removing the music thingy (although I'm sure he will complain initially!)

I'm also trying not to let him stay up longer then 2 hours and I do find he settles for naps quicker if I catch him just before the 2 hours are up. Only naps for 40 mins though....

Brilliant night for you though!!! Long may it continue!

One thing that made a big difference with DD's sleeping was starting to get her ready for bed at 5pm, in bed no later than 6 and making sure (as much as possible between trips to shops/HV/post office etc) that she's not up for longer than 2 hrs max during the day. I also took everything out of her cot no mobile (which she loved), no toys, nothing that could possible stimulate her when she woke up - only one sleepy bear that she drags over her face and sings to . I did find at one point I was getting up just to turn her little fish mobile on so that had to go. I even put a dark blanket over one side of the cot so she can't even see out into her room. It looks really boring but since doing that she's slept better [fingers crossed] We used to be up every 1.5-2hrs but since doing that I'm up a maximum of 3 times between 6pm and 6am. Last night she went to bed at 6, I fed her at 3 cos my boobs were going to pop and then she woke up at 7...hooray!!

feralgirl I too have sometimes wished I hadn't had another baby so you're not alone there. But you're right, when they give you a gummy smile or a chuckle, those thoughts are gone and I feel blessed again (until 3am the next night!! ).

Nobody I know in RL has such a poor sleeper either and their babies are all sleeping through or having just one feed.

DS has had another 2 nights of waking 1-2hrly and only settling with a feed.

I keep wondering what I'm doing wrong! He goes down about 7.30pm with no trouble and is awake when I put him down. Likewise, I make sure he's awake when put down for a nap and don't put him down immediately after a feed either.

I used a musical lights show thing to help with the transition from my bed to a cot and the HV thinks he now has a dependancy on that and needs me to switch it back on whenever he wakes! So I will have to try and wean him off that now.....more howling!!

chulita you have made my day with that comment!

yes, daylight makes an enormous difference, doesn't it. it was the same for me in those first few weeks in december. would feel absolutely dead at 5 am, but once the sun came up everything seemed so much more manageable.

Chulita, that made me laugh sooo much! I have never voiced that terrible thought to anyone except DH, who was so that I realised that I could never say it to anyone else (except MNers, to whom one can say almost anything!)

Of course, the minute that we get up in the morning, all those awful thoughts disappear and DS is the most amazing, beautiful thing that's ever happened to me.

Thank you feralgirl, I made the mistake at our local mum's group of asking whether anyone had ever regretted having a baby and I may as well have dropped my trousers and pooed on the table for all the looks of utter disgust I got. Not a feeling I'm proud of but when I got up 8-10 times a night every night for 4mths solid...
Thankfully DD is sleeping a bit better but just starting another feeding frenzy so after a week of only feeding twice a night she's trying to push me back to a few more...I don't want to
4 more weeks and I can graduate to the 6mth sleep thread

Oh, it really does Staines! It's so nice to know we're not alone isn't it?

Indith, I've just read your post properly and realised that you and I are living parallel lives, doing exactly the same things at the same times!

I dunno whether people just lie about how their babies sleep but I haven't had a single RL conversation with anyone whose baby is as crap at night as DS. My mum and MiL claim that me my brother, DH and my SiL all slept brilliantly practically from day one and have no useful advice at all. All my friends, even those at BF group, all seem to have better sleepers than DS, despite doing insane things like keeping their babies up until 10.30 at night.

It makes me feel like such an evil cow when I think about how much more I would enjoy being a mother if only I wasn't so bastard tired all the time. I hate the fact that, in the wee small hours, I have even regretted having a baby and thought about how much easier my life would be without him. And I'm being thoroughly FOUL to poor DH at the moment because I'm exhausted and feeling as though I'm dealing with it all myself.

Ah feralgirl, why does that make me feel reassured that I'm not alone? It shouldn't help me that you're having a challenging time too, but it strangely does! I doubt that helps you much though.....

I've been kipping at every available opportunity this last week so haven't been on for ages, hello fellow sufferers.

I too am fending off idiotic suggestions about introducing formula and giving baby rice from MiL, my mother and my grandmother. My mum laughed at me - and not in a nice way, in a "you're a daft first time parent" way - yesterday when I said I was determined for DS to be exclusively BF until 6mo, as per all advice.

The last week has been sheer hell: waking every two hours whether we're co-sleeping or not; refusing to settle between the hours of 2 and 4; feeding for two minutes and then going to sleep and then waking up as soon as he's laid down.

Also is just beginning to cut a tooth.

I am so scared that he's going to be one of those babies who doesn't sleep properly until he's 2; we're doing all the NCSS suggestions but to no avail.

<<ah, there he goes. Time for a feed.>>

<<waves at jj>>

Can I join? Dd 18 weeks and has gone from feeding twice at night as a newborn to waking half hourly or so! She is a bit under the weather so I'm hoping in a few days to go back to her slightly better hourly wakings

She goes to bed very well around 7 after a bath and a snuggly bf then often starts to stir at 9. Then wakes for a feed about 10. She'll then hopefully do 2 hours before another feed although I often have to resettle after an hour. After that she wakes every sleep cycle pretty much. She just can't get herself over and back into sleep. We co-sleep but it doesn't seem to help! She isn't interested in comfot feeding (fast let-down issues so she only feeds if she's hungry). She'll pretty much always have an hour or so awake around 3 or 4 and has done that since she was born. I find she doesn't want to feed during this part of the night so is very difficult to get back off. She feeds again around 5 then if I'm lucky sleeps til 7 but usually it is 6ish.

Anyway shall catch up with the non sleeping stories soon. Bath time now!

yes, early weaning being suggested and blithely ignored here, too.

Yes I keep getting the "maybe he's hungry", "wean him" lines and am tiring of explaining that whilst I know he's a big baby, I don't think he's ready for weaning yet. He still has a strong tongue thrust reflex for starters!

He was awake every hour from 1am until 4.30am last night and I was at the end of my tether again. When he'd only fed an hour previous, DP tried to settle him or we tried to see if he'd self-settle after being left to grumble a bit but he just got angrier. Nothing worked except feeding. He seemed to comfort feed most of the time though and was only really hungry at his 1st 1am feed.

So I'm persisting with the self-settling daytime naps today in the hope that if we can get those right, the nights will just follow!!

At the moment he is going off after about 10 mins of complaining (not proper crying) but is only napping for about 40mins. But I'm not going to stress too much about the length of the nap....the important thing for me is that he gets himself to sleep without feeding!

Hello, can I join too? DD is 25 weeks and never been that good with the whole sleeping at night thing. But she did generally go down at 7.30 after a bath and feed and then woke for a feed at 10.30, 1am, 3am then around 6am.

Recently however she is having a waking period at either 1 or 3am, no crying just lots of laughing, gurgling and generally being very pleased with herself when she rolls over or manages to put her feet in her mouth! We co-sleep and thought we may be disturbing her so tried putting her back in her cot after feeds for a bit but were woken at 3am every night after DD worked her way to the top of the cot (which is next to the bed) so she could shout and peer at us throught the bars.

This is my first, I was completley convinced she would be sleeping through by 12 weeks as I've been reliably informed by almost every one I know with children that this is just what happens. I've been EBF and the standard advice I have been getting from them since she was 3 months old is "Have you tried baby rice"........beause........"maybe she's just hungry?"

We have the NCSS to but can't bring myself to do the log either, it would be depressing but am also too tired to actually fill it in

Hello, another newcomer to the thread. starlight pointed me in your direction...

DD -first child - is 20 weeks and previously slept til about 2 or 3 before having a feed then up every couple of hours thereafter. She's BF, sleeps in a sidecar crib next to me, off to sleep at 7.30 after a fairly regular routine of bath, milk, music on the monitor, then into bed with us after the first feed. Last couple of weeks she's woken up when we go to bed (doesn't matter if that's 10.30, 11, 11.30 or whatever) and then very very hard to settle, often stays attached to the boob while she's asleep and wakes up as soon as I try to take her off (have tried the PPO to very little avail!). Her worst night was awake from 11.30 til 5.30 alternating yelling and feeding, but kicking and wriggling during the feeds.

I've taken to trying earplugs so that I don't automatically wake up at her first snuffle, but if she's awake when we go to bed that doesn't work. She's very keen on flinging her legs around when she wakes and it can be hard to get her latched on properly as she arches her back and pulls away.

I suspect this is quite similar to a lot of people's experiences! We're pondering putting her in her own room to start with so that any movements we make going to bed are less likely to wake her, but I don't like the idea of her having to get really upset and needing to yell loudly to be heard when she wakes up. I keep blaming it on different things - growth spurts, change of the clocks, first tooth coming through but each excuse blends into the next one... We have the NCSS but have yet to be brave enough to do the sleep log, it would be too depressing!

Make mine a strong one!!

Up at midnight, 2am, 4am, 6.15am.........[gibbering idiot emoticon]

Hmm...I had a week of DD sleeping from 6pm til 3am - lovely stuff, I felt semi-normal again! Now she's back to waking at midnight, then about 4am and then at 6am and crying til I pick her up. Ok, so it's a massive improvement on a few weeks ago when she was up every 1.5hrs but I was really enjoying being able to sleep!! Argh! Hopefully it's the 5mth growth spurt, she'd only put on 3oz in the last 3wks so she's due one. [sigh] Just having a bleary-eyed Saturday morning whinge...coffee anyone?

aaaah, starlight, i love you! i constantly swing between listening to the people who tell me i'm storing up trouble for the future and listening to myself - before i know it he'll be a stinky horrible teenager and won't want to go anywhere near me!!

LOL Guilt has nothing to do with it. You do what enables you to cope best with the current challanges. I'd call that 'smart' personally.

Why must you be strong to avoid falling asleep together or having night cuddles if you are both enjoying it? This phase doesn't last and it is lovely (if tiring)!

Thanks starlight - afraid i'm guilty of two things, I think I fall asleep while he's on the boob as much as he falls asleep on it IYSWIM, and I still love those middle of the night cuddles. I must be strong. Thanks for the advice.

staines Yes I was cosleeping, but I inched further and further away from her. I would roll over to her in the night, and roll away afterwards. Then she went into a side cot and so was even further away. Then in the same cot I put her in her own room.

I really don't think it was the putting her in her own room that did it, just helped with the ending the very last 4am feed.

hth

Hi smurfette - he's currently enjoying a half hour breakfast! will order ncss - cheers

Starlight you have given me hope!!

JamInMyWellies I am thinking of starting a DF! DS has slept from 8pm til 1am for the last 3 nights and I was wondering if a DF would mean he did his 5hr stretch from 11pm?? Now I'm not so sure.......can only try I suppose.

stainesmassif I have to admit that I stopped co-sleeping because DS was feeding every hour then not feeding much in the day (he was about 12 weeks). The No-Cry Sleep Solution has some good advice for reducing night feeds if you want to continue co-sleeping.

Hi Starlight, sorry, I haven't read the 17 (!) pages of the thread - were your co-sleeping? I am worrying - as I'm sure everyone else is - that ds is increasing his night time feeds as I'm giving him such easy access by co-sleeping. But the alternative is so unappealing. I was quite pleased with co-sleeping as a solution, but it seems now he's gone from one 4 or 5 am feed after being in the moses basket for most of the night to countless snacks that I sleep through....and of course everyone else tells me I'm making a rod for my own back etc etc etc. Is it just a phase????

Hello everyone,

Just an update. Baby Starlight reduced her night feeding to just one at 4am, at 7 months, so we moved her into her own room.

I never left her to cry, but became a little slow to respond to her 4am waking and she started to go back to sleep all by herself. Now, at 7.5 month she sleeps through the night from 9:30pm - 7:30am

Thank feck for that.

Hope it give you all some reassurance that it does eventually happen. Good luck!

Can I jump in and ask a quick question fellow sufferers. DS2 is 18wks and some nights goes down at 7 with a dream feed at 10.30 then feeds at 3 ish and up at 6.30 7ish but most of the time its awake 2hourly at night. Should I drop the DF maybe its waking him too much and just go with the flow or percevere and hope thats its some weird developmental thing and in a couple of weeks he will change again. Am a bit scared that if I dont DF he will wake loads more. He is BF by the way apart form the DF which is formula.

Hello Chulita!!

Sadly still no miraculous solution here either but it does make me feel a bit better knowing there are others going through the same torture thing.

I did wonder if the 2-3hrly wakings and therefore feeds meant that DS is getting all his calories at night? His daytime feeds are so fussy and sometimes he just doesn't seem hungry. I have tried to soothe him back to sleep without feeding him but find that even if I'm successful, he still wakes an hour later, gets more upset so I end up feeding him anyway!

Hello!! I've been lurking on this thread for weeks, semi-hoping that I'd find a cure for DD's sleeping hades and I could leap on here wearing my knickers over a pair of old tights and tell you all how it's done...but no such luck Mind if I join anyway? I'll only have a whinge but I'll sympathise with all of you too!!

I've just realised he has his next set of jabs tomorrow, so I think we're just doomed for the next few nights really! He's unsettled today and not napping well, so I hope he's just going through a phase, peaking and will settle down again, for a wee while at least. He's so damn gorgeous, fortunately!

Hello MrsHD. I am watching your other thread with desperation interest as it is what DS is like! He feeds 2 hourly most nights but what is most frustrating is that he goes longer between feeds during the day (sometimes 4-5 hours) or just fusses and faffs during his daytime feeds as if he's not that hungry.

Feralgirl I really do know what you are feeling. The unpredictability is the same here and like you, I feel that his daytime naps have no bearing on how his nights go. I have even kept a sleep log to see how they compare but it is no clearer.

Also like you, I have quite seriously considered stopping breast feeding for my own sanity. However, DS won't take a bottle of ebm or formula (but that's another thread!!) so that isn't an option anyway!

Thankfully his chickenpox is fairly mild and hasn't made the nights any worse.

People keep telling me that it will just "click" for him.....let's hope so before I end up going completely nuts and DP leaves me because I'm such a grumpy old cow!!

>adopts zombie monotone< P L E A S E C A N I J O I N ?

Max is feeding four times a night atm and I am quite literally falling to pieces - have to glue skin back on with prescription creams! I'm not expecting any great solution to it, just a nice soothing pat on the arm and reassurance that it will end. I don't remember DD ever doing this. Help!

Wow Smurfette, a 5 hour stretch; you lucky buggers! But I can't even imagine what chickenpox must be like with a baby, I went to pieces when DS just had a cold. At least that's one horrible childhood illness out of the way for good now though.

DS has had a couple of reasonable nights this week where he's only woken two or three times and settled back again nice and quick but I did lose the plot the other afternoon when I'd only had about four hours sleep in total during the night and then he refused to nap for longer than half an hour at a time during the day so I couldn't catch up then either. I was seriously considering packing in the breast feeding at that point.

I think it's the unpredictability that does my head in most; one night he'll wake twice and be really good, the next it'll be hours of howling. As far as I can tell, his nap routine and how he spends his days has absolutley no bearing on his nights whatsoever.

Everyone keeps telling me that it'll get better at six months when he's weaning but there are plenty of threads on MN that make me doubt that that will be the case!

Hope DS gets better soon Smurfette.

Well, moved DS from our room on Tues and had the best night EVER! He went straight to sleep at 7.45pm, then woke at 11.30pm and 2.30am but that was it! He then slept from 3am until 8.15am. I was soooo pleased!!

Then he went and got bloody chickenpox

Poor little mite was awake every 2 hours again last night.

I'm now praying it passes quickly and he (we!) don't suffer too much.

Oh, Smurfette that sounds miserable. At least my DS generally settles well at 7pm and stays down until 10ish; it's just between 11.30 and 7am that he's rubbish!

We moved DS back in with us because for a while it seemed as though he slept better with the comfort of having us close by but I don't know if that's the case any more. I'll be interested to hear what happens with your DCs if you shift them out (although you're both making me think twice about having more than one DC now!)

When will this ever get better???

DS took until nearly 10pm to settle last night with lots of tears and stress (both of us!).

Woke for a feed at 1am and 4am but took an hour to resettle. He didn't actually cry but grumbled and ga-ga'd until 5am!! But at least it was a 3 hr stretch rather then every 2hrs like the night before.

So....we have decided to try and move him out tonight . We were planning on him going in with DD (3yo) but have decided on the spare room for now so they don't disturb each other with their nocturnal shenanigans! DD can sleep through DS crying but because she has been getting up at all hours too (though not for a week [fingers crossed emoticon]), we don't want her waking DS up if he's asleep.

Daisy I don't envy you having to choose which room.....tricky one. I think I'd be inclined to opt for DD's room and see how it goes.

another week of no sleep for me and added to Easter holiday hell and I was on my knees by Friday, so we did the weekend thing again so I got another couple of half decent nights. when DH is with him, he is only waking up once......I'm considering putting him in his own room now (only three weeks short of the magic six months mark), however, we are in a three bed house, and I have a DD who is nearly 2 and a DS who is nearly seven.

Having a major dilemma about whether the baby goes in with DD and risk him waking her up if he cries, or putting DD in with DS, but I'm not sure it's fair on DS1 having his baby sis in with him, and his room is an alladin's cave of illicit toys so she would never go to bed and would just be in amongst everything....

what to do...what to do?

Hey,
May have to retract what I said about the CO; DS has gone steadily backwards from that one amazing night and last night woke at 11.30 (despite having been dreamfed at 10.30) and then didn't settle properly until 2am. As if that wasn't enough, he then woke at 5am and refused to go back to sleep! He's been having a full on growth spurt though so it might ease off in a few days.

At least I got a 3 hour stretch in the middle...

Smurfette and Kiwi, I do the same to try an encourage DS to fill his belly; quite often he'll do the opposite though and feed so much that he's then sick everywhere!

DH got the day off tomorrow so is back on the night shift tonight. Maybe I should move DS back into his own room to see if it resolves the proximity prob.

Kiwi I have the same problem sometimes. When DS nods off after a few gulps, I stroke his cheek or massage the palm of his hand to encourage him to feed a bit longer. Then I swap sides. Doesn't always work though!

Hello fellow sufferers. After two days and nights of 2-hourly feeding round the clock I got two 3 hour stints last night.. it's something, eh?? I have had stinking cold though - which I think DD gave me, cheers for that

Interesting what people say about proximity. I don't know if that might be a problem with us - she sleeps in basket right by bed. But I think another problem is that she wakes, takes a short feed and then falls asleep straight away after only 8 mins or so. I reckon if I could get her to eat a bit more (she does 10=15 minutes in day) she might sleep a little longer, but I can't seem to manage it. Does anyone have any tips for waking a baby up a BIT but not to full on "aghh you woke me up I'm going to have a meltdown now" mode"?

One waking sounds good feralgirl! Fingers crossed the CO has worked. Keep us posted & if it continues working, we'll give it a try!

DS has slept 3 hours between feeds for the last few nights which is an improvement. He had his 4 month jabs yesterday so I'm braced for further unsettled periods though!!

DP has been off work this week and has got up with the LOs and left me in bed for a lie in which has been bliss

How's DS doing back in the cot Daisy? We were wondering if my close proximity unsettles DS too as he is soothed back to sleep much quicker by DP.

Aw, Daisy, that sounds hideous. I hope you're feeling a bit better now?

My CO looks as though it may have had a bit of an effect; DS only woke once last night (although he did then take an hour to get back to sleep as he was rolling around in his bed doing his hysterical laughing thing again, bizarre child).

Wipes bleary eyes and wades through treacle to say Hi.

Ds is five months and usually wakes up two or three times a night. He goes at best three hours from 8 till eleven and then usually is up and feeding every 2 hours after that.

A few nights this week DH has slept in the living room with him in his pram to allow me to get some sleep as I've had a post op wound infection on top of a really bad cold and was literally on my knees

We did this again on Friday night and last night. Last night he slept from 11.45 to 6.15 ....a first. But, he is back in the sodecar cot with me tonight and I think it's my proximity that's waking him.

Anyway, nice to meet you all and hello to the familiar "faces". Off to have a read and see if I can get any tips

Interestingly, having DH take control of the night does seem to be working (touch wood).

DS, despite having a stinking cold, only fully woke up twice between 7pm and 7am last night. My angelic DH spent most of the night rubbing his back as he was v restless but I only had to go in and do very quick 10 min feeds at 11pm and 3.30am (although I took over back-rubbing duty at 6am when DH looked like he might cry! )

I guess having the boobless parent doing the night shift means that DS doesn't immediately think "ooh, lovely warm milk and a hug from mummy!"

Meant I got the best night's sleep I've had in months!

Thanks feralgirl. It does help to know that I'm not the only one.

I will watch with interest to see how you get on with the cranial osteopathy. DS was also a difficult ventouse delivery with shoulder dystocia.

Lets hope tonight is better [praying furiously emoticon]

Have just realised that I've told you all twice about the CO. Sorry for going on; blame the lack of sleep and my tentative excitement about it!

Oh Smurfette, your post bought tears to my eyes (why isn't there an emoticon with massive bags under its eyes, going into full on melt down mode through lack of sleep?!) I had a nap time like that last week where I had to go and sit on the front doorstep for two minutes because I was getting so frustrated (could still hear DS wailing, so I knew he was OK, before anyone gets too )

Also had a morning this week where I cried for two hours and made DH pull a sicky because I couldn't hack it any more. God love him, i moan endlessly about what a lazy monkey he is but, in answer to your question Lola, he does his bit really! He's got a week off this week so he's taking pole position to see if we can break the habit of DS waking 5 times a night and refusing to settle until I BF him (as per NCSS suggestion; it's the only thing we haven't tried). And Lola, we were doing the musical beds thing too, but we've just resigned ourselves to sleeping in seperate rooms for the moment.

We're also taking DS for cranial osteopathy; he was a tricky ventouse delivery so hope, hope, hope that it makes a difference!

It's so comforting to know that there are other MNers out there doing the same thing at the same time during the wee small hours.

I will try Starlight. I am now finding that even when both LOs have gone to sleep, I take ages to relax and drop off.

I have asked my dad & step-mum to stay for the weekend whilst DP is away so that I don't have a repeat of last night and they can watch DC this afternoon while I (hopefully) nap.

Smurfette I know it feels like going backwards, - (but you ARE back to survival time), - could you use those first 3 hours of sleep to get some yourself. Either go to bed at the same time or move your lo's bedtime to when you go to bed. You should get 3 good hours sleep to start the night off.

Truly awful night . Went down at 7.45pm, woke for feed at 11pm. Slept for 1 hr, screamed for 1 1/2, slept for just under 2 screamed for 1. I'm ashamed to say that I had to leave him to cry at 1 point . On my own last night as DP away and nothing was soothing him. I tried feeding, ssh/pat, pupd, changing nappy, feeding again but he still cried and cried. I could feel myself getting more frustrated and angry at him so had to leave him for a while and he cried himself to sleep while I sobbed and hated myself. He is full of lovely smiles this morning which has made me feel even more terrible in a way.

I am miserable, despondent, depressed, a wicked mum and so tired, I feel physically ill

I am going through the same. DS is 17 weeks & this week has been hell. We were down to 2 bf a night but it is now every 1 1/2 - 2 hours. He sleeps ok from 7.30pm til about 10.30-11ish and that's the longest stretch. He is also getting more difficult to resettle when previously, ssh/pat had worked. Daytime naps last no longer then 40 mins so no chance to catch up then.

To add insult to injury, 3yo DD has started getting up at all hours again as she did when DS was 1st born (previously she was a great sleeper). She usually picks the times that DS has finally gone to sleep to come in to the bedroom. I am slowly going insane with sleep deprivation and can see why it is used as a form of torture!

Oh Kiwi sorry to hear that. It's awful isn't it especially when your body is just starting to get used to a little sleep. Welcome to newborn hell again.

I think part of the no sleep issue is accepting that you are not going to get much sleep on a night and any good stint you do get is a bonus. I am TRYING not to get too worked uo about it and am since finding that it is slightly easier to deal with. For example, my LO sometimes wakes up in the night and is a nightmare to resettle so i just bring him downstairs for a while where he is all smiles and then attempt to settle again after a good cup of tea for me and a little play on the floor for him. More often than not it works.

Keep posting and hopefully we can help each other through

Can I join early? DD is 15 weeks tomorrow and has gone from a reasonable 4/5 hour followed by two 3 hour stretches to waking every 2 hours and taking forever to settle and suddenly developing bad wind. Lost the plot last night and spent all of it sobbing

Do I qualify for membership??

Hi Feralgirl I'm also regularly up in the wee small hours. Ds was a lovely sleeper (only up once a night) until 17 weeks and since then we have slowly deteriorated . At its peak on Sunday night it was six times. I am breastfeeding so i generally offer breast if he wakes up as i simply don't have the energy to try any other techniques.

It is also like musical beds in our house . Ds always starts off in his cot then when he wakes we co sleep and poos dp goes into spare room.

Ds is now 22 weeks today and last night it was only 4 wakings. Everynight i pray that he will go longer but generally no. People keep saying it's a phrase and it will pass but i'm still waiting to see that light at the end of the tunnel.

Sorry if this is depressing you further but i really know how you feel. Is your dp helping at all?

Hi, thanks for the commiserations and the tolerance of my horrendous mood! And hurrah for Leonie (more faces).
DS has now got a cold which is making life even more fun! I'm taking him for cranial osteopathy next week as he had a bit of a grim ventouse delivery so I'm really hoping it'll make a difference. [crossing fingers in blind optimism emoticon]

How are everyone else's DCs getting on? Please let me know I'm not alone in the wee small hours!

feralgirl are you still there? I didn't realise you had replied to the thread... we could commiserate together?

Hello feralgirl That sounds like hell. Poor you!

Congratulations Leonie's DD!

I have graduated. I think.

She just turned SIX months, and got 2 teeth, started sitting, started CRAWLING, started eating, and has started saying 'mum mum' and 'bwa bwa' all in the same fortnight. !!!!!!

Now she's sleeping better and only waking 2 or 3 times a night. As she's in with us, i just put her on other side of me and plug her into a boob and we all go to sleep.

YAY. Long may it last.

I'm going to shamelssly BUMP this thread and also request permission to join it two days early please?
DS is very nearly 4 months and has gone steadily backwards from waking 1-2 times a night to waking 7-8 times. I've finally surrendered and started co-sleeping which means I'm spending more time in my bed and less asleep in the chair in his room but he woke up at 3.45 this morning and just lay in bed laughing for an 2 hours. It was pitch black and silent so I can only assume he was pissing himself at my desperate attempt to lull him back to sleep.
After stomping into the spare room and sobbing "it's your turn" to DH, I lay in the spare bed for an hour, listening to the bastard birds squawking outside. I'm now re-reading NCSS in the hope that I missed some vital piece of info the first time.

EVERYONE I know in the 'real' world (i.e. not MN) has babies who sleep more than DS; even my friend's 6 week old goes for 6 hours at a time. I'm sick of people raising their eyebrows and telling me that their little princess slept through from 4 weeks.

anyone still here??? helllllllllll0pppppppppppppp

came to the sleep section to start a thread and found this one

DD2 four months next wk and i'm sooooooooooooooo tired i feel so desperate (have pnd and on ads b4 anyone asks)

scuse bad typing NAK

hello, fellow zombies!

wow, i feel better that am not alone! my ds is 5 months tomorrow but was a preemie...a month early so corrected age is 4 months. either way its bad! he has gone from settling himself to sleep to demanding to be rocked until sound asleep...any earlier and he wakes as soon as he is placed in moses basket. we have ordered a cot bed which mother in law and husband believe will be the miracle cure but it isn't arriving for 3 more weeks. he doesn't nap in the day without being rocked or sleeping in my arms for 20 mins, wakes up tired and can't go back to sleep. he now wakes every 2 hours in the night and i am losing my mind. how did he go from settling himself to this rocking thing? every other bit of advice has been to let him cry it out but have attempted this for a nigt and the rage was not worth it...sure it must work for some but not sure i have the strength to do it...is this just a phase??? feel like blame everything on teeth/growth spurt, neither of which have surfaced yet! help??!

Hi Everyone. I haven't posted much (it's all so boring and predictable from my end), but have been keeping up with you all.

Baby Starlight regressed again shortly after telling you all that things were improving.

She then started to just wake twice, and last night we had just one waking, so again I'm hoping this is it.

Not weaned yet, and she is almost 27 weeks, but I'm planning to shortly.

Good luck to you all, and hope you are all feeling at the very least, a sense of progression.

I think we're through the worst of it <tentatively touches wood> - for the past few nights DD has only woken two or maybe three times between around 11 pm (when we go to bed - if we're being virtuous) and 9.30 am-ish. Not perfect, but I can live with it as long as she's going back to sleep immediately after being fed

Her naps have been a different story - had two days of tears from both of us as I tried to get her to sleep, then googled last night and found that they drop a nap (and can go longer between naps) at around six months anyway (DD is 24 weeks on Saturday). Doh! So today we have been going with the flow and both been a lot happier as a result (I also learned with interest while googling that they "should" be sleeping through the night at six months, but I'm ignoring that ...).

Jojay I'm having a similar problem. My 4.5 month old naps like yours, 30-45 mins at a time during the day about 3-4 times a day. Sometimes longer if we go for a walk he can sleep for 2.5 hrs in his pushchair. Night wakings are similar to yours and he won't settle in his cot once he wakes up. We have to put him in his rocking chair or on the boob to get him back to sleep. He ends up sleeping most of the night in his rocking chair because we're desperate to get some sleep. He can go 3-4 hours in his chair where he'll only sleep about 1.5 hrs in his cot. (Though about a week ago he slept 4 hours, woke for a feed, and then slept another 4 hours in his cot!)

It seems like he can't settle himself to sleep without help. He has done it on occasion in the past but it is very sporadic. I worry about him sleeping in his chair but then think he'll grow out of it. I don't know what to do to get him to sleep longer in his cot.

I suppose this is no help to you except to say I know what you're going through!

Haven't read the whole thread - waaaaay too long!! but can I join?

DS2 is 18 wks ( I think, keep losing track due to sleep deprivation) and was up at 9.30, 1.30, 3.30, 4.30, and 5.30 last night - yawn.

He's never been great - we've had a few nights when he's only woken once between 10.30 pm and 7 am, but they're in the minority, generally it's twice, but sometimes more than this.

He can self settle himself to sleep, as long as he's swaddled, which is fab, and he's generally a very quick feeder who goes straight back to sleep once he's done, so it hasn't been too killing.

Last night though, he was crying and unsettled a few times in the night, which is really unlike him now - he was like it A LOT in the early days though - but he's had a rosy cheek today and has also been pulling at his ear.

So he may be teething or have an ear infection, not sure. I've given him Calpol and he's gone off ok so far, so we'll see what the night brings.......<<optimistic emoticon>>

My sympathies to everyone having a rough time at the moment - it's grim isn't it, esp if you're working or have other kids to look after. But we shall not be beaten.........!

My DD seems to be having really bad re4sltess sleep - she wakes me up thrashing about and grunting but she's asleep, her eyes are closed, and this goes on for ages, I have to wake her up to stop it and then she won't go back to sleep. Gonna have to try setteling her in the nursery tonight as if I can sleep through some of her sleep noises, it might just cut down the times she's awake and really needs a feed. Ho hum, got so down today thinking about going through this again but can do it, have to do it, so must think chin up and carry on. Have booked her into the osteopath in case it's teething, have been told be all it helps

would do but it started meaning we were getting worse nights - he sleeps better now without it to be honest, I'd be more than happy for him to keep it but he started waking more and more for it and taking ages to settle because it would pop out as he fell asleep

Girlwithmousey - 'fraid I haven't read all your posts on this thread but I used a dummy for DD, now 2.3, until she was about 10 mths old. Got her through the awful bits and it was really not a prob taking it away when she was older. If I could get DS to take one I'd be delighted! But he won't. If he likes it and it gets you more sleep why not just stick with it? We're having okayish nights. DS is getting to about 2 but then wakes every 1.5 hrs or so til morning. That feels ok right now...

Ladies, I am 'graduating' to the support thread for 6 month old babies that dont sleep as ds is 6 months old tomorrow

Last night he only woke twice I think - 2am and not sure when, then up singing at 6.30am so not bad at all but I feel knackered. The previous night was about 4 times - including 45 mins of chortling at 4.30am - I tried to shush him with feeding for poor dp's sake, but he chortled with my boob in his mouth

Am wondering if the 6 month sleep regression is where they wake for about 1 hour around4am as this has happened a few times over the past 2 weeks. Ho hum

I wish you all luck and hopefully some sleep soon!!

argh so PU/PD is working at bedtime and getting him down for naps, he's angry and cries but asleep within 5mins - but it's not working when he wakes at night (takes 40mins-1hr to get him to sleep) or to try extending his horrid 30min naps (fights and cries til he's hungry which can also take an hour) and since starting PU/PD stroke getting rid of the dummy, he's goone from waking for the day all smiles and happiness at 7:30am to screaming at 6am and refusing to be settled or fed until 7am...a really awful start to the day. Am also convinced he's not as happy as he usually is, which my mum and husband say is rubbish.

Am a complete wreck today, I hate my baby crying and feeling like it's my fault for a) giving him a dummy in the first place and b)for taking it away

Must remind myself he was still only napping for 30mins with dummy and was getting up just as much in the night and taking as much time to settle