Sleep and Reflux

[chocospence]

Just wondering if anyone out there has ideas about sleep and reflux. My DD is 4 months old and we started off fantastically with just waking for feeds and getting back to sleep, sometines in crib sometimes in our bed.

Then reflux hit, after i thought having milk would be healthy! After gaviscon and homeopathy she seems to be really restless mainly at night. She seems desperate to sleep but just can't. Do we think this is reflux related or just one of those things?

[Kerri28]

i am probably opening a can of worms here chocospence, but my dd has had reflux since about 3-4 weeks old and was unmedicated until recenty. She is now 4.5 months. since the reflux hit we could never get her to sleep on her back, we had to rock her in our arms whilst she was on her side IYSWIM. then we could transfer her to her cot, but this wasnt always successful.

(this is where it becomes controversial) She sleeps on her tummy and has done since 6 weeks old. After much terrible worrying, and almost no sleep i came to the conclusion that 1) there is an elevated risk of cot death, but how would i ever know whether she would die anyway, or whether this was tummy-sleeping related, 2) she is in the bedroom with me, and 3) i would die if i didnt sleep soon.

She sleeps on her tummy, and i would do it again in a flash. She is strong, and able to rol over easily, she knows the difference between bed time (on tummy) and play time (on back). she sleeps soundly from 7pm-10:30 when she has a dream feed, and then 11:30 until about 6 when she'll nap on and off until 7.

obviously i cant say whether this would suit you lo or you, but i just thought i'd outline what works very well for us. Having said that, after 4 months of tummy sleeping, dd will not tolerate sleeping on her back, and struggles to sleep in a car or pushchair because she wants to roll over and cant. So i couldnt guarantee that even if you wanted to try it, your lo would comply!

have you tried elevating her mattres so her head is higher? this helped my dd a lot when she was small as it helps reflux symptoms.

good luck

[chocospence]

Hi

I have tried sleeping her on her tummy and i think we have managed it once. Last night i gave her a gaviscon and it seemed to settle her - she fed alot but slept in between fairly well so i think it is the reflux now.

I'm off to GP tomorrow to see about further meds as gaviscon failing to hit the stop and i know what you mean about dying if no sleep!

We are elevating her mattress and that does help a lot.

It just seems like an endless battle and when things work its great but the moment the pain strikes again its awful! Fingers crossed the GP helps

What meds is your lo on?

[Kerri28]

she's on nutramigen formula because she has a milk protein allergy, causing eczema and severe colic, which calmed her a lot but then we noticed the reflux (which we had thought was part of allergy before ) she is on gaviscon, which helps in some respects and at some times of day (the mornings used to be very refluxy, but are sooo much better now, but she is always refluxy in the mid-afternoon even with gaviscon) but doesnt cure it totally.

there are stronger meds though, but i dont know what they are i'm afraid. i guessed your little one wouldnt like tummy sleeping after so long on her back, its habit i guess...

let me know how you get on at the gp. is she losing weight?

[chocospence]

GP was awful! he's not happy to refer her for stronger meds as she is putting on weight and is devloping normally.

She has got eczema and i believe that she too has cow's milk protein allergy as this whole thing started when i had milk in my diet. (the eczema started later though but i'm sure its all connected)

The gaviscon is having simialr effects with dd. Working occasioanlly but not all day or all night!

I have to say i'm finding it very hard. My health visitor seems to think that she is just a 'difficlt' high need baby and some are just like that but i'm convinced that its all related to the reflux.

The GP has agreed to see us in 2 weeks. (he first suggested 4 but when i cried he said 2!).

I feel like i'm the only one sure that there is something not quite right and everyone else thinks i'm over anxious possible depressed new mum. (HV visiting reguarly to watch for PND - great!)

[Gibbsy]

My 6 month old suffers from reflux, and we were referred to a paed (sp). He is FF and has always been really sick and a difficult baby / sleeper.

He was put on gaviscon and we were told to wean him at 17 weeks as this can help. He has improved massively since he has been on solids and his bad days are few and far between now. He sleeps sooooo much better now as well, in less pain.

Keep going back to the GP and pushing as I know my sister had to push for her LO but got it in the end.

[chocospence]

I am seeing gp again in 2 weeks and will definitely be a bit more pushy.

We had a better day today so am hoping the homeopathy i am trying is working.

Did you see a specialist gastro paed?

[Elffriend]

Definitely get referred. Stamp your foot! Hard!!! GPs never want to prescribe anything stronger (ours would not even prescribe gaviscon ). If you can afford it, go private - much faster referral.

Putting on weight is irrelevant if they are in pain.

What makes you think it is the reflux? What is the pattern of waking? Is she sick or is the reflux silent?

[ELM]

Hi Chocospence,

DS had refulx, we used to have to hold him upright after every feed (including night ones) or he would bring the whole lot back up, for about 1/2 an hour. So I really, really sympathise!!

We started off on Gaviscon, but that didn't do the trick, the milk might stay down bt DS was still bothered by acid reflux.. we were prescribed Omeprazole (didn't do the job) then Ranitidin which seemed to help a lot.
, in conjunction with the gaviscon. We had to really push for this, and that was with a consultant. We felt exactly the same as Elffriend, it is important for them to be comfortable as well as put on weight.

I also found that DS used to get a lot of trapped wind, with the gaviscon, we were afraid to wind him in case he was sick. We used to very verry gently rub his tummy.

DS stopped being sick when he was weaned, although I think he has just learned to swallow it now..Sorry to be gross!

Hope this helps. But totally agree with everyone else, you have to push VERY hard for the doctors to do anything.

[chocospence]

Hi

Thank you all. My confidence is building reading your replies.

We think its reflux because she used to cry 60 -90 minutes after a feed then it became screaming pain. At first we thought wind but she is always very good at bringing up her wind from the beginning so wasn't convinced by the wind theory.

Also, frequent hiccups and screaming after large hiccups. Lots of wet burps which would make her cry. She hates being flat on her back and what eventually decided for me that it was silent reflux was the night i propped her up and she fell to sleep!

We are using wedges and never let her be on her back. She loves the superman position when she is really uncomfortable.

When she gets an attack she arches her back and her abdominal muscles go very hard. She vomits regularly often projectile sometimes fresh milk sometimes curdled.

The gaviscon and homeopathy seem to have reduce the pain as the screaming epsiodes are far less but she is still uncomfortable on a daily basis and needs constant attention to distract her from the pain i think.

She has also got an out break of eczema at the moment on her face and head which i think is truly p!ssing her off too!

Originally, we thought it was a dairy intolerance as it got a zillion times worse when i had milk in my diet. Now i think she has both, dairy intolerance and silent reflux.

Did you see a NHS consultant - i'm worried if we go the NHS route we'll end up seeing someone who has limited knowledge on reflux and will also try and tell me that my dd is just 'difficult' and demanding and she grow out of it! I think that would really put the nail in the coffin so to speak.

[ELM]

Hi Choco, the consultant we saw was our paed at our SCBU.. but we had to go back to him several times to convince him, in the end it was a very supportive health visitor who gave us the nerve to go back to him again! (since then he has been great)

He got me to abstain from dairy for a month to see if it made any difference, so I'm guessing they either go hand in hand, or have very similar symptoms? (altho it didn't make any difference with DS)

But stick to yor guns, YOUR instinct is the most important!!
Good luck.

[Gibbsy]

We saw an NHS consultant and he was fab, knew loads about reflux. The HVs were the ones who kept telling me I was worrying about nothing. My son was throwing up clear fluid when he had nothing else left - he was so uncomfortable. We have a follow up appt in a few weeks to check he is better. The solids were the thing that helped, the consultant was the one who told me to wean early!

[Nessamommy]

Haven't read all the posts, but have you tried elevating where your baby sleeps? For example, if it's in the crib, have one end elevated with tuna cans or something like that. I know it won't solve the problem but may help with some relief?

[chocospence]

Hi nessamommy

We have elevated her head with some wedges. They did provide some relief. Today however, we tested our new amby hammock for lo and so far her sleeps have gone well, infact she when to sleep at 3.30pm and woke for a feed at 5.30pm and then went straight back to sleep - there was no waking her! Hopefully it won't cause me problems tonight! Guess this is baby led routines!!!

[kellydaisy]

Hi, have only just read thread but wanted to say keep pushing for a stronger med. dd and ds both had reflux and both were fatties!! i'm a children's nurse, knew what I was on about but still GP's did nothing cos babies weren't losing weight. in the end I insisted and both started Domperidone. it works a treat. still see some feeds again but majority are kept down. good luck

[chocospence]

What is it with GP's and reflux....did the all the medical textbooks miss that page out???!!!

Am geared up for wednesday...fingers crossed he'll listen. dh is coming too just in case!

Thank you for your message