Baby doesn't know how to sleep

[Dakiara]

Hi,

Sorry in advance, it's a bit long, but we're both getting to a stage where we could Really use some advice.

My 7.5 month old used to go down to sleep well. Admittedly I have always nursed him to sleep at the start of the night, but he reacted well to this and we didn't see a problem. His routine has been flexible but has always appeared to calm him, and he has been sleeping reasonably well (with around five wakes during the night, but that's another issue, lol).

This last week or so however, he has been getting worse and worse at it, refusing to settle in any way, refusing to latch to have his "last feed" and being most unsettled.

His usual routine:

1. Solid meal at around 6pm or so
2. Relaxed play on his mat for half an hour to an hour
3. A feed, relaxing with his daddy till he shows signs of tiredness, then
4. The last bedtime feed and going up to his cot asleep

He has no real trouble settling down when he wakes in the night (well, mostly).

He has been further disrupted by a 24hr bug combined with a bout of teething, which has led us to where we are now:

1. Routine as usual
2. Mat as usual
3. Relaxed time as usual
4. Refuses feed, gets upset on me
5. Gets upset on Daddy
6. Gets upset on mat

The last three interchange now, with him wanting off whoever or whatever he is on to go somewhere else within minutes, and working himself up to a frenzy by which point a night of stress and very little sleep results on all sides.

We've tried a more rigid routine (didn't work, he got upset as soon as he was left), putting him down earlier when he drifted off (he has started to wake up on me as soon as I try and move), some controlled crying (he just refuses to stop crying and settle down in the bits where you are meant to calm him), leaving him in the cot with us in the room/touching his chest to calm him (also doesn't work, he works up to the frenzy in any event). All of these just seem to have made him more and more clingy to the point where during the day he cannot be left anywhere to do "solo play" as he cries.

Any advice would help, we're due to go on our second planned wee holiday soon (we cancelled the first one as we couldn't get him used enough to going out to new places), and neither of us can face the thought of doing anything or going anywhere while he is like this (and I'm not even thinking of the 6 hour journey).

And happy Xmas given that it appears to be Xmas Eve!

[sophierosie]

Oh dear, sounds like you are really stressed out having tried everything. It could could still be teething that is disrupting him - are there any looking as if they're breaking through? It can last for ages.

Don't cancel your holiday - a change in environment may jump start him back into his usual routine.

What time are you putting him down?
I think its quite common at this age for them to be clingy as they really do think that you have disappeared forever when you leave the room.

For how long did you try a more rigid routine?

Hang on in there.

[Dakiara]

We had one tooth break through yesterday (just 18 more horrors to go as I understand it, lol), if he was showing any signs of them being sore would Calpol, but he hasn't been chewing or rubbing much at all since it came through.

We'd dearly love to still go on holiday, but are starting to get feelings of dread at the thought of being so far away from home if things don't go well while we are there.

We put him down anything from 7 to 9pm. He's never really picked an evening time to sleep and if we tried to encourage him to sleep earlier than he appears ready, it's not pretty! It's strange - it really is as though he has flipped a switch or something and turned into a different baby as far as settling and sleep is concerned. I suppose we have been reasonably lucky up to now.

It's good to hear that they are meant to become clingy at this age though, I was starting to think perhaps we were doing something wrong!

We tried the routine for around a week, but it didn't seem to have an effect. It's all rather strange admittedly.

Thanks for the reply, really preciate the thoughts!

[sophierosie]

What's his routine in the day? Does he sleep much then?

[Dakiara]

He has between one and three naps, can vary between 20 minutes and an hour. He's always been a bad napper though, and won't put himself to sleep during the day like he does during the night.

Meals tend to be around 9am, 12noon, 6pm
Naps tend to be around 10am, 12noon, 3.30pm ish

[blueshoes]

Dakaira, has he just started or is on the cusp of crawling? Apart from sickness and teething, developmental milestones can also rock their world. Their minds go into overdrive.

[Dakiara]

He just went down finally sighs with relief.

Hubby read your advice sophierosie about the not cancelling the holiday - he says it's made him much more determined that we try and go on holiday this time. After all we may as well not sleep and get stress up there as down here he says! Thanks again.

blueshoes, I am wondering if he might be on the cusp of crawling - he is very very impatient to be sat up all the time and has been trying to raise both his rear and his front when on his tummy, if that is a sign?

That's reassuring to think - I don't mind quite so much if there is a reason for him going a bit haywire (the lack of my own sleep notwithstanding), I just don't like to think that I am failing to settle him from something that I am doing, or not doing... this baby thing is Sooooo much harder than I thought it would be! (though I suppose most folks say that)

[blueshoes]

dakaira, this raising front and rear and wanting to be sitting up does seem to indicate he is keen to get moving.

My ds was terribly unsettled in his sleep (teething too) for weeks and weeks before he started to walk. Once he started walking, things settled down. I think he was just very frustrated at being in a rut from crawling - he crawled from 6 months until 13 months.

[sophierosie]

Ooh yes - I forgot about those developmental milestones - they can go a bit off the wall as they want to practise what they're learning all the time!

I think what is so difficult is that they change the goalposts all the time - you think you've got them sussed and worked out what they like and then the next day they are completely different!

I don't know if it helps but if you want to put him to bed without bf to sleep I found that my dd responded better to dh than me. DH started off holding her til she was calm and would put her in her cot and hold her firmly round her body so she felt secure. She used to howl for sometime, but after a few days the time taken for her to settle down lessened, then he'd just lay his hand on her until she was happy with that. The whole process probably took about 3-4 weeks but she did learn to settle herself quite happily.

Just looked at your routine again - have you thought about having bath time in the evening? This would take up some of the quiet play time, which may actually be stimulating him?

[Dakiara]

I shall start preparing to fence everything in the room off then (or doing proper childproofing, which might take longer, lol)! It must be very frustrating though for babies to not be able to get to what they want till their tiny bodies work how they would like.

For some reason I never really thought that his sleep patterns would get worse for any reason other than illness or teething - must be terribly naive of me!

[Islamum]

I've just brought nct help yur baby to sleep and really recommend it. hope you all get sleep soon

[blueshoes]

About the changing goalposts point, want to mention that the feeding to sleep thing became less and less reliable as a sleep inducer the older and more alert ds got. By 7.5 months, I would say it would only work if ds was sleepy to begin with.

Agree with sophierosie on the getting dh to cuddle your ds to sleep. This worked with my ds for a few months. Now ds will only have me - We are at the stage where ds is wheeled to sleep in a buggy every night but he is a notoriously bad sleeper.

It could also be that your ds is needing less sleep and you are trying to put him to bed when he is not sleepy. See what happens if you put him to bed, say, 30 mins later, or at the same time on a day when he has less total naptime.

[Dakiara]

Will have a try with getting dh (if I used the right acronym) to put the wee one down at nights perhaps then, thanks. I just reckon it is probably a useful thing for the wee one to learn how to go to sleep without me at nights - not that I dislike the BF, but it does seem to have made him almost completely reliant on me being there 24/7, and it would be nice to go out one day for a break!

We will also try the bathtime in the evening, cheers. Specially as dh has got the time off work - can try most things to re-work the routine to get something that works that way!

As for changing goalposts it is scary how much he changes day to day of recent weeks - I figured he just did it to see how much he could make our hair fall out! ;) Glad to hear this is usual for babies though and not just part of our son's master plan to see how much our heads reflect the sun with no hair!

[Dakiara]

Oh, and have copied down the name of that book to try and get hold of it also Islamum, thanks!

I keep missing bits of posts and sentences when reading, I am definitely going to try and get more sleep be it tonight or tomorrow, else the spelling will go next, and the teacher in me won't cope with that bit! Will revisit the thread with my list of all the advice you've all given later, and make sure I have gotten all the things to try thanks everyone again.

[HunkerGotLeprosyFromAFact]

Can you give him his dinner a bit earlier and put him to bed earlier? Noon to 6pm is quite a long gap between meals?

[soapbox]

I actually think he is probably having one nap too many - is he ready to drop the 3.30 nap? Most babies of this age I know, tend to have a morning nap and a post lunch nap and then be up until bedtime.

Might it be worth dropping it for a couple of days and seeing how the night time goes?

[Dakiara]

Well, he has had adjusted times so far tonight - he had his meal earlier and a bath. No luck yet! Cross fingers for us! Am starting to look for the humbugs so I can go "Bah!" at 'em! He's been rubbing his eyes for around an hour now, but each time we put him down (anywhere) he screams, so he's back up, whinging along as per usual.

Shall persevere and hope though over the next few days, thanks again all! And on the plus side, if we end up having to cancel the holiday again, the folks we are trying to visit say they will come and see us instead!

[sophierosie]

Good luck - I remember reading it takes 10 days to set a routine and about 3 to break it!

It is hard work sometimes - but do persevere and you'll get there in the end - its good you've got your DH to help out too as I'm sure they associate mummy with bf and all the contentment that goes along with it!

When you say he's back up - does that mean he's back up with you or just out of his cot?

Hope santa has been good to you!

[Dakiara]

Thanks, will bear that in mind for both, specially the 3 days if we manage to get him back into a good routine! Don't want to break it again, lol!

Back up as in he's out of his cot and back downstairs with us again - we figure he may as well yell with us sat in comfort on the sofa given it seems to make no difference either way, and it does seem to calm him back down being out of his room.

And... scary news... he's asleep! Though not sure for how long, I can hear stirrings already - but he went down!

/me cheers at everyone

Santa was indeed good to us this year (highlights were a baby casting kit and an HP Lovecraft Elder Sign, not to mention all the distracting toys for wee one!), hope you have had a good day and a kind Santa also!

[whomovedmychocolate]

Dakiara - some babies just don't sleep terribly well at that age. DD has never been a great sleeper but about 8 months she got very active in her cot, tossing and turning and generally being a grumpy wotsit. We switched her to a warmer sleeping bag and sat in the dark with her for a bit, that helped reassure her.

Also she teethed from 8 months till - well about now actually 14 months - she's getting her final molars. She has a full head of teeth.

Nurofen for children is much more effective for teething I've found and it actually tastes nicer than that horrid pink stuff. Also seems to knock DD out (hurrah!)