Ferber method with 5 month old

[Higgeldypiggeldy35]

Please be kind as I'm at breaking point. another night of two hours sleep. I'm breastfeeding and cosleeping but my son just can't settle himself at all and sometimes is awake for hours. We have a great routine in the day and is spot on with his naps but night time is awful. A good night is 3 weeks a bad night like last night innumerable. I am seeing a therapist for stress and anxiety which has developed since he was born. Last night I had a melt down and bit myself because I was so frustrated and I screamed into a pillow. I can't cope with this. I can't sleep in the day as I have a toddler. My husband tries his hardest to settle the baby in the night but he screams if it's not me. With me he witn scream but he won't settle and he will poke and scratch and kick me for hours. I've decitthis can't go on and I want to try the Ferber method with him. I know it goes against advice as he's only 5 months. We did it with my older son at maybe 7-8 months and he has slept through most of his life. Hence we are thinking of trying it with our baby. I am full of feelings of failure, guilt and feel so exhausted stressed and anxious. Has anybody else tried this method with a slightly younger baby? Any advice please. And I know sleeping training is contentious but please be kind and no nasty comments please, I'm already on the edge.

Sorry for the typos

It wouldn't be something I would choose.

What is 5mo like when he is awake? Just laying there or crying the whole time?

I don't know anything about sleep training, but just wanted to send love. Not sleeping is the absolute worst. My 6 mo won't settle for DH and will scream until he's sick and he's at work which involves a lot of driving so he tends to sleep on the sofa bed leaving me to deal with it all. It is so so tough. I've yelled, snatched the dummy off him when he keeps taking it out and had to leave the room sometimes.
You've probably already thought about these, but does a dummy help? Is he getting too much sleep in the daytime? Do you have a good bedtime routine? I read on another thread about how even getting a night here and there of five hours or so will give you some much needed resilience - can your partner take a turn at the weekend with baby and toddler so you can get some rest?
It's so tough, you're doing great and it won't last forever (I tell myself this at least once a day!)

Sleep training can be the best thing in some situations - if your sleep is terrible and so is his then something needs to change. There are a couple of supportive Facebook groups - respectful sleep training and one just for Ferber I recommend you join for advice. Sleep training will mean your baby and you sleep better which can only be a good thing for your baby's development and your happiness and will be worth some crying. There are various methods for sleep training and it's worth reading up on them to understand what method you would feel most comfortable with

Having similar issues myself and have had days at breaking point but since being more persistent with in crib settling and a more consistent day nap routine, I'm getting longer stretches, and by longer I mean three hours but I'm hopeful it'll improve further. Would recommend huckleberry app.

Don't let the worry of being judged stop you asking for help and helping your baby sleep better. Unless you have a baby who doesn't sleep you cannot understand the relentless exhaustion.

Good luck, it's really hard 💐

He takes a dummy but will often spit it out or fiddle with it instead of settling. I used to be able to feed him to sleep and transfer him but most times now he wakes up or doesn't fall asleep on the breast. He doesn't particularly cry but fidgets and whinges through the night he's yawning and rubbing his eyes but also seems wired. He's a gorgeous baby and happy albeit clingy to me during the day. Wants picking up a lot and lots of attention which is fine. He has 30 mins morning nap 2 hours lunch nap and 15 mins around 16.30 so I don't think he's having too much day sleep.

Also has good night routine of bath story and then feed to sleep. I've tried the putting him down drowsey but awake but he then gets worked up. He now needs holding or rocking to sleep. But during the night that doesn't seem to work either. His bedtime routine starts at 18.15 aim for asleep by 7. Wakes anytime from 4.30 to 6 but usually the earlier side.

My HV said to try not to feed to sleep. I used to for the dreamfeed, but now that doesn't work anyway and he's always awake when I put him back down however long I leave him on for. Have you tried separating the bedtime feed and bed, so putting the bath in between so that he learns to settle on his own without boob? We give a ten min happy splashing bath to tire him out and then a quick cuddle, song and then put him in the cot, and then I've started reading a chapter or two (or three!) from a storybook until she's drowsy. Then just sit there constantly putting the dummy back in until he goes to sleep. I know that's not practical for every resettling tho.
Is he easy to fall asleep initially at his bedtime?

He doesn't particularly cry but fidgets and whinges through the night he's yawning and rubbing his eyes but also seems wired

If he isnt crying then just leave him. If he starts crying, offer milk/shh pat etc.

Ferber Method is to completely ignore any crying right?

You could always swap to bottles so that you and dh can share the night waking.

I've tried not feeding to sleep and he just won't settle. I've rocked and patted and shushed and he just gets more and more worked up

No the Ferber method means controlled crying where you go in at 2 mins, 4 mins, 6 mins etc. I could never go over 8-10 mins with my older son. You're also not meant to pick them up to comfort but I did. My older son took about a week to mostly sleep through. Then if it's been a few hours I offer a feed incase hungry. But he doesn't need milk after less than an hour

I'm trying to introduce bottles and it takes about 45 mins to drink 60mls as he mostly bites the nipple. I'm persevering with it though

I would change his day time sleep first. My Dd went through this stage around the same time. It was because she was waking too early and then her first nap was classed as night time still and couldn't sleep a full 45 minute sleep cycle.

I would try getting the morning nap to at least 45 mins as this is a normal sleep cycle time which means he's not getting a rested sleep. Try a bouncer or pram as then before the 30min wake up you can rock or bounce to try get him to stay asleep for the extra 15 mins.

Keep the middle sleep the same, you may find the nap shortens to 1hr 40.

Do the above for the late afternoon nap to elongate it too 45mins and move bedtime back to 7.30-8pm.

This worked for my Dd, it took a few weeks to perfect but had her sleeping through. I wouldn't underestimate the importance of a full sleep cycle.

I've tried making the morning nap longer. I've tried buggy and sling. I've tried holding him, on days where my toddler is in nursery I've tried cosleeping a nap but I rarely get 45 mins. It's usually 20-30 mins, it's so frustrating

I've got a little ones sleep programme that recommends a short late afternoon nap at this age. It's so hard to know what the right thing to do is

I did Ferber method and it was absolutely brilliant, she slept through in a few days. You’ll need to break the feed / sleep association as when you put the baby down it needs to be with him awake which will be tough to start but it does pass quickly.

It sounds like day time naps are very short at this age though, I imagine the 15 min nap in the afternoon isn’t refreshing him at all as that’s very short.

I’d try and hold on for a bit longer then do Ferber at 5.5 months, it’s not recommended until 6 months

I am seeing a therapist for stress and anxiety which has developed since he was born

I think this is your anxiety talking. I can feel the desperation and stress just reading your opening post.

In regards to sleep. My suggestion is similar to above, tackle daytime sleep to improve the night:

• bouncer and dummy for naps
• no longer than 1h awake between naps
• a full feed in every awake window

Plus talk to your GP and see if anxiety medication will help you.

I can’t comment on sleep training because I don’t agree with it at all when it involves crying.

However, it sounds like he’s not getting enough sleep in the day. Lack of sleep can make it just as hard for them to sleep at night as too much sleep.

Also, I’d bin all the schedules and be led by your baby more.

You have my sympathy OP, it is difficult but your baby is still very small. Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley? It’s got lots of good advice.

I’m so sorry, I know how you feel as I had post natal anxiety with both of my babies and sleep deprivation made it a million times worse.
The little ones routine is ideal. Stick to it. Just try to break the feed to sleep association and also leave your baby to settle. It does not matter if he’s rolling around or whatever. Some babies need to do a baby disco before they go off to sleep.
I wouldn’t leave a 5 month old to cry more than 2 mins max. So if you do controlled crying then keep the visits at that timing ie go in every 2 mins and pat to settle.

Unfortunately there is no baby disco. Just absolute fury that I have dared to put him down. We're going to try him in his own room at the weekend once some more black out curtains have arrived. I know it's not ideal before 6 months but I want to see if he wakes less on his own. Maybe my presence is waking him

I think your baby sounds massively overtired and like @FATEdestiny I’d be working on daysleep first. He’s not getting enough from the sounds of it. I know it sounds counterintuitive, like he’ll sleep even less at night, but the saying “sleep breeds sleep” is so true.

If you have a toddler, I’d be sending them out with your DP for the day- all day- at the weekend for a couple of days to try and resolve daysleep first.

for you, you poor thing. You sound knackered.

Ferber Method saved my life! First baby trained at 6 months old, took 3 nights, second and third took one night ( I had laid
The foundations) and then none of them (hardly) ever cried at night again, bliss for you and also for them!

My dd went in her own room at 14 weeks because we couldn't fit a cot in our room, and she wriggled and grunted so much when I co slept with her. My DS still cosleeps with me now, age 2.5 years.

I'd definitely try the cot in own room. And also would increase daytime sleep as both mine had better nights when they got more daytime sleep, even if bedtime was later.

Personally I would not use Ferber method but I don't think you are wrong to try. It's your baby.

Thanks for all the advice. So how much day sleep should he be having because I'm going off a very well known sleep consultants guidance for his age. 45 mins about 90 mins after waking (he usually does more like 30) then 2-21/4 hours at midday and then a short 15 mins nap at 17.00 to tide over until bedtime.

At 5 months my DS was sleeping roughly

Waking 6am
1ish hour sleep at 7.30/8am
Awake say 9am-11am
2 hours 11am-1pm
Lunch and awake 1pm-3pm (ish)
Sleep 3pm-4.30pm or later
Awake 4.30-7pm
Bed 7pm - would sleep to 6am ish with anywhere from 1-4 night breastfeeds (co-slept so just popped a boob out and went back off).

All babies are different ofc, and the actual
Timings moved around for us, but 4 - 5 hours of sleep a day (naps) was right for us, in 3-4 chunks.