Pick up put down or gradual withdrawal

[3andamdone]

My dd 3 is nearly 5 months, she has never slept well. I have her cot side car with the bed so she sleeps in it or on our mattress, even if she is on cot mattress I have to lie next to her most of the time till she falls asleep. I'm breastfeeding and she wakes every 1-2 hrs looking to feed to go back to sleep again. I started co-Sleeping because she was up a lot but I think it's made it worse as she is so used to me being there and having a suck to get back off to sleep again.
We are at the point we need to do something- but don't know what!! The co sleeping helped at first but now I'm getting so little sleep it's not funny and have 2 older dd's to,look after. Baby is tired too, she usually has 2 45 min naps and is over tired by end of day
DH is quite happy with cc, I would like something gentler but don't know if pu/pd or gradual withdrawal ( sleep lady shuffle ) best.
Really appreciate any wisdom, thanks!

[FATEdestiny]

Regardless of the method you use - what will be her alternate source of comfort if not breastfeeding?

Does she have a dumny?

If you are using a sidecar cot, that lends itself to gradual withdrawal since the whole point of the sidecar cot is in-cot settling and not needing to pick baby up.

even if she is on cot mattress I have to lie next to her most of the time till she falls asleep

That is to be expected. What are you hoping for at 5 months old? I wonder if a large part of the problem here is unrealistic expectations.

[3andamdone]

She won't take a dummy, that is me,

Obviously I know she needs comfort and I want to do that but I also know we both need sleep. If we had a bedtime when she settled without waking every 20-40 mins and we could avoid me being awake for hrs at a time because she is using me as a dummy that would be such a help. I know she's not feeding / hungry at these times as she doesn't suck hard enough to keep boob in her mouth but when it falls out she's rooting for it again.

Could you share some of your gradual withdrawal wisdom?

[Beansprout30]

We've been going through this with our almost 6 month old, it started just before four months but Christmas period was awful, she just would not settle so started co-sleeping which got us some sleep, but of course she wanted this to continue!

We have forked out on a sleepyhead grand pod, and the last two nights have been a huge improvement. Got her back up and asleep at 7pm instead of snoozing on me downstairs, she wakes every two hours but I give her a quick 5 min feed and place her back in the pod and she goes back off to sleep. Hoping things are getting back on track. I tried pick up/put down but she was having none of it and I couldn't let her scream.

I don't know if my post is any help but I'd recommend a sleepyhead if you can spare the cash, they aren't cheap!

[3andamdone]

Beansprout I have been "debating" with dh about sleepyhead for ages!!!
The grand is 8-18 months isn't it? Do you know are he dimensions it gibpves online of the whole thing or the space inside iyswim?
Trouble is I rolled up blankets and put under her sheets a few times thinking if it worked coukdnconvince him to get one and it never did 🙁
Does she wake up when you lay her in the pod? Sounds like she loves it, hope it continues

[Beansprout30]

If I get chance tomorrow I will check the measurements for you. I'm amazed at the difference it's made, the firs time night she slept on me she was still crying when I put her down so I had to lay my head on the side to help her go to sleep, last night self settled by 7.10pm and literally 5 min feeds throughout the night and straight back to sleep.. tonight, well I've just put her down, she did a little shuffle and nodded off!! Granted her afternoon nap was a little earlier this afternoon but this has never happened! Be interesting to see when she wakes.

She had the small sleepyhead and we removed it over Christmas and it didn't twig that that's probably what made her sleep worse!

[FATEdestiny]

It sounds to me like there are two issues. Light sleeping and getting to sleep.

Firstly light sleeping (ie waking easily and often). That's likely to be caused by over tiredness which is in turn likely to be due to not enough daytime sleep.

she usually has 2 45 min naps. While shorter (30-45m naps) are not unusual at this she, they need to be frequent to avoid over tiredness. So I would probably aim for 60-90 minutes awake time between one nap and the next. That might mean only 30 minutes active "playtime" with 15 mins for a feed and 15+ minutes settling time.

I've just done a bit of maths and work out that would be around about 7 or 8 seperate 45 ish minute naps between 7am and 11pm.

The next issue is getting to sleep.

It is likely that a non- overtired baby is going to be easier to get to sleep than an exhausted one. So more daytime sleep may help with this.

Then the idea of Gradual Withdrawal is always giving enough comfort for baby alm the way until being asleep. But over time you withdraw very slowly the amount of reassurance baby needs.

So to start with, that might mean cuddling right into the cot, breast feeding to sleep and staying cuddling, patting and generally reassuring all the way until baby is asleep.

Then once baby is more settled with this, maybe it will just need feeding to sleep and then firm hand on chest for reassurance.

The problem you may face that needs realistic expectations is replacing bf to sleep with alternate soothing method. Realistically the baby won't have the manual dexterity to use alternate comforters (blankie, muslin, soft toy etc) until nearer 12 months old. So really work on another type of comforter of some kind, if not a dummy then a special toy or whatever. But be realistic that you are likely to need to carry on feeding to sleep for a long time yet.

Personally speaking, I'd be a lot more relentless with getting the dummy accepted. They are so worth it for ibdependant sleeping.

[3andamdone]

Beansprout how are you getting on with sleepyhead???

[Beansprout30]

Really good! Last night was a bit rubbish as she has another cold but Friday night was best in a long time. She let me re settle with a quick cuddle twice before 11.30 then did midnight til 3am, then up for the day 5.45! Huge improvement.

How are things for you? Have you tried anything new?

[3andamdone]

Thanks fate, will work on daytime sleep ( use pushchair at home) and also consider earlier bedtime. Hard with the older 2 and school runs etc.
Can't see 7 naps happening mind you!! In 2 minds about dummy, it disturbs her / wakes her up so can't help thinking not great to battle to get her to take something that will then have to battle off her later on.
Already priming a comforter / lovey

Sprout, tempted by sleepyhead lo is 5 months so would going straight to grande wirkndo yuontjink?

[Beansprout30]

Yes I'd go straight for the grand, my lg is too big for the deluxe and she's only just six months. I hope it helps if you do get one after all the raving I've been doing about it!

[FATEdestiny]

Hard with the older 2 and school runs

Ive got older ones and school runs. It's doable, just work backwards from immovable timings like school runs to time feeds and sleeps to work along side the family routine.

So if I needed to be out the house by 8.30 then baby needed to be napping by 8am so she could be woken to go to school after half an hour. Or go the other way and keep baby going so that she is ready for a nap at 8.30 on the school run.