Early rising and cm giving up on giving him a nap :(

[FifiFerusha]

So, DS is 14 mo. We had issues with early rising before but it settled to 6 am ish and that was ok. It is now 5.20 nearly to the dot regardless of bedtime. He naps 12 until 2/2.30 and bedtime is at 7 ish. He will settle himself for bedtime but will fall asleep instantly at nap times with a bit of music and a couple of ounces of milk,if that.

What is making it a bit worse is that he goes to the cm two days a week. She says that he is so stressed at nap times that he wakes the other children. I understand that, my child isn't the only child there and I do understand that it is hard when one child's stress will have a knock on effect. However she doesn't seem to put them down for a nap until after half one. They are older than my DS. My DS has just transitioned to one nap( no way he will do two now, impossible) but at home I give him an early lunch at 11 and he is asleep by 12. He couldn't last any longer. Anyway so Cm has given up on his nap and will let him sleep in the pram on school run for between 10 and 30 mins at 3pm !!!I feel so sorry for him' he is awake for about 9/10 hour before his nap and this is causing night wakings and even earlier mornings, after he has been there. I have told her his routine but she hasn't tried it, she doesn't even give him the milk he is used to having. I kniw he doesn't need it but it is just a sleep cue really. She is in the school of thought that not all toddlers need naps as hers didn't. I know my DS does! Anyway I am just venting really as I didn't/ don't know what to do. I feel I have had so many conversations about sleep with her that I have run out of steam. It took him 5 weeks to settle down there and no other cms available. Argh.

So any solutions for early rising? Is the routine wrong? and thank you for listening to my venting ;) x

[JohnLapsleyParlabane]

I think you need a new childminder tbh. 10 hours is cruel if he needs the sleep.

[longdiling]

What is her reason for putting him down so late? Does she have a school run or something? I'm a childminder and I try and follow the child's routine as much as possible. 10 minutes at that age - he's really just a baby - just isn't good enough.

[FifiFerusha]

They are out and about until lunch at 12 usually so my boy 's day doesn't fit in I think. I suggested lunch out and about and then sleep for DS when they get back at 12ish and if he goes down before the others he won't wake them. However he doesn't usually cry to sleep, that is worrying too. I told her that he likes a bit of milk in the bedroom before sleep, it just calms him but she says there won't be time. She has two extra workers with her on some days but I am kind of thinking it would be in her benefit to train him to sleep properly at hers anyway to give her time too. I was hoping that sharing my wind down methods may be helpful.

However the issue also was that he only ever slept for 30 mins at hers when she left him to it in the cot. But I think he just needs to be given the opportunity to get used to it as he sleeps two hours at home argh......so she has given up and just hopes he will sleep on the three o clock school run. My DS has always struggled to sleep in a pram so the fact that he does that for 10 mins or so means he must be absolutely shattered.

I want to raise the issue but in a friendly way. She is looking after my kids so I need her to respect me( she also minds before and after school for my 6 yr old, who has been playing up for her, another story, but that doesn't help)

Any ideas for the early rising or is this constant battle of accumulative OT likely to be the cause? X x thanks for listening to my waffle x x

[Pollyanna9]

I was a childminder. Giving children the sleep they needed, when they needed it, was my priority. I'm afraid that whilst I was willing to try and help children along to a later nap time, if they were tired, then they'd be allowed to sleep. End of.

It was the same as a CM as it was as a parent.

I CANNOT condone forcing children to stay awake - I'm sorry, I think it's tantamount to cruelty.

The EYFS is supposed to meet the needs of children at ALL ages not just the 'interesting' ones who are older (sadly, it's done f all for younger kids - if you can't do a handprint or produce some kind of work you're not valid - and I'm afraid that is how some childminders think. For real, I'm not joking).

I would want my child's need for sleep met. Some kids just wake up early. That's life. My DS did. You could put him to bed at 8pm if you wanted but he'd still be awake by 5.30!! Why not honour them and their patterns, not try and make them conform to some bullshit 'normality'. Normal is only normal for the people it's normal for. Everyone's normal is different, children included.

I'd be having FIRM words with this CM. Maybe when his need to sleep at a particular time interferes with her -sit and chat with other childminders whilst totally ignoring all the children in her care- fully child-focused playgroup trips so he has to fit in....

[Pollyanna9]

I'm sorry, she's not working with you. She is working to the max numbers with assistants. Apologies, but it's numbers over quality of care = maximum dollar.

Sorry, my underscoring didn't work above.

Having done the CM think I tried a couple of 'CM playgroups. They were bloody AWFUL. The CMs sat there and chatted and gassed with each other the whole flipping session, TOTALLY ignoring the children in their care. I was flabbergasted.

When me, and my nice CM friend, went, we followed our kids and interracted with them and played with them and the toys they were interested in, we didn't ignore them. This is what goes on at some CM groups. And at one where there was a concrete floor, CM1 came in, dropped her kids to be looked after by another CM altogether, went out to the shops, kids were strapped into high chairs WITHOUT HARNESSES over a concrete floor, to eat their snacks!

NEVER went to that group again. Awful.

I had a 9 month old and 10 month old who went down at similar times and a 3 yr old who went down after lunch - I accommodated their times, one slept upstairs in a cot, the other on a beanbag next to me on the sofa and the third on the sofa with beanbags in front so she couldn't possibly fall off. And they slept as long as they needed.

[FifiFerusha]

Thank you Pollyanna. I am certainly wondering about it all now. Your words are firm but I fear they may be the reality :( I genuinely think that she thinks he isn't tired but I know him. He will go wired and wild and needs quiet time and calming before sleep so she doesn't read his signs well. It is also probably more convenient for her to not let him sleep though if calming him is an effort. Almost insisting to herself, 'oh he just doesn't need to sleep'

I am upset. I pay 500 quid a month for the two days( this includes my daughter) and am left with very little. It hardly seems worth working but the tiny extra is vital to our tight budget at present. She is the only one around she heads all the cm's in the village. It is a group,thing. What shall I say to her? Ah x

Nb she got outstanding from ofsted ??

[Couldashouldawoulda]

That's awful. Babies can't stay awake that long. She sounds very unsympathetic. I'd send him somewhere else. Is there a nursery near you that might work instead?

[longdiling]

I don't think it helps to speculate on what she's doing in the mornings based on someone else's experience. Stick to the facts. I am baffled about why she wouldn't try and give him some milk, how can she not have time? Is she hung up on not giving bottles to babies over 12 months perhaps?

If she has a successful routine that works for all the others and involves her being out in the morning then I think it's reasonable of her to not want to change this. But she really does need to make more effort to help him sleep. It sounds like he is completely over tired by 1.30.

[FifiFerusha]

There is but they don't open early enough. I need to drop them off at 7.15 am to get to work. Still leaves me with the before and after school care for DD. This is really frustrating. I need to talk to her, just to say please can you try a bit harder with his sleep and see her reaction x

[FifiFerusha]

Long- just read your message. She did try to get him to sleep in the cot at 1.30 for a few weeks but I he kept waking after 30 mins. Probably because he was OT. I asked her to try even a bit earlier but she never did. She is probably reluctant to have her usual routine changed( lunch may be a busy time etc...)

I wonder if the milk thing is because of the bottles. I don't understand why she doesn't want to try and do this to help. Of course I need him to get off a bottle anyway but I really don't care when it comes to sleeping at cms. Anything that works just to let him sleep, he needs his sleep ah x x

[theothersideoftheworld]

My dc is 18 months and an early riser. He also goes to a cm 2 days a week. I would be really upset if she deliberately kept him awake. She gives him lunch early and then he sleeps for 2 hours. They are also out and about until lunch, but she moves her day around to accommodate naps. I think you need to speak to her and be a bit more insistent.

[FifiFerusha]

Just wondering how to word it in the nicest way possible so she doesn't feel offended and therefore less inclined to help. It is like I think she think I am a bit petty for wanting him to sleep. I will say please help him sleep a bit earlier than the others if you can because it is having a knock on effect etc.....I am so polite, I hate to be stern with people but it is my little boy I feel sorry for x

Ps was 5 this morning, argh, wishing for that 6am wake up to come back again.mwhat on earth is going to happen when the clocks go back. I dread to think :(

[longdiling]

You shouldn't have to pussy foot around her! Obviously no need to be rude but tell her it's causing massive problems and you need her to work with you. Give her a few options and ask her to choose one she feels she can commit to for a week or so. In the meantime, go back round the other childcare options and see if a space has come up or if you can go on a waiting list.

[theothersideoftheworld]

OP mine was 4.30 today. I know exactly how you feel. Come half term I'm going to get to grips with it but I can't tackle it now as I don't want to wake my eldest.
Can you just tell your cm that your little boy is tired and miserable in the evenings and he MUST have a decent sleep. You are paying her remember and it's not an unreasonable request!

[Aristacat1]

I was a nursery nurse and have now got a one year old and do part time nannying. I understand that first and foremost you try and do what the parent has asked. If for some reason it hasnt happened I would explain the reason and sit down with the parent and try and meet a middle ground. It sounds like she has a lot of children and so therefore it is difficult but maybe you should suggest a 'meeting' to compromise.You are paying for her service so you have every right to speak up and tell her what you think and how it could work. As a childcare proffessional she should know that the childs needs are the most important. If she has to many children at her setting then she needs to prioritise and be honest with you. Honestly ask to meet with her. xxx

[Aristacat1]

Oh also I have the same issue with early rising and have tried napping patterns early nights late nights etc she just wakes at 5-530 atm grrr 2 weeks ago it was 6-630 and wasnt reay doing anything different. Hoping it will change soon. She sleeps from 630-5-5.30 but i generally leave her and she chats and drifts bk off or just gabbles for a while. She sleeps abput 2 hours in the day on average maybe more somedays, maybe less. I give up coz other wise I end up so wound up haha. Let us know if you talk to ur cm. Good luck xx

[Writerwannabe83]

My DS started going to a CM when he was 9-10 months old and at that age he was still having two naps of 90 minutes a day. I desperately wanted my CM to adhere to his nap times but I knew it wasn't practical as she had school runs to do and other children to entertain. It used to break my heart at how tired he was following the days of being with the CM. However, as the months passed he transitioned to doing what the other children did which was nap after his lunch for 1.5 hours which wasn't ideal but at least it was something. When he was home with me though he still had hid two separate naps.

DS started nursery earlier this year, not long after he turned two and although he still has a 90-120 minute nap at home after his lunch I know that when at nursery he doesn't nap at all and some evenings he looks exhausted. Thankfully he only goes to nursery for two days a week so he can catch up on his sleep on the days he's at home.

You have my sympathies OP, worrying about a child's sleep is completely natural as the thought of them being kept awake when they are tired is actually quite upsetting.