Sleeping/napping in cot- how?

[SkiptonLass2]

Ds is coming up to four months. I'm on a mission to get him more sleep!
I've spent the last couple of days actively arranging three naps a day and he's taking to it well. The problem is I can't get him in his cot!
Previously I've been able to feed him and put him down sleepy but awake but now he gets very upset if I try to put him down in the cot. We are just lying down feeding with no rocking etc.
So my question is: how doing get back to being able to put him down sleepy in his cot? Is it just a matter of being extremely perdistent? I foresee him getting very upset so is it better to try to get him in the cot for every nap, or just one to start with doc that he gets some rest in the other naps?
Is pupd something to use here? Shh pat seems to really piss him off. I'm trying with the dummy but he's not a fan so far (I will persevere!)

I should add he's teething and it's making him uncomfortable

[FifiFerusha]

Hi there,

Do you have a nap routine and how long is his awake time? Considering both of these has helped my DS. Then again i am probably still getting the awake time wrong :)

I started shh pat at 8 or 9 weeks, worked well, and by four months he didn't like it..too stimulating so this might be what you DS is feeling. So fed to sleep for a while and then did a sort of a shhhh stroke thing. You could try this. I put a hand over his legs as he liked to fling them upwards, shhhed and gently stroked his chest(all with white noise on...thinki it calms me more than him mind). it took a good few weeks to establish and he did resist at first...sort of calmed, cried, calmed cried..repeat repeat repeat until sleep. It could sometimes take up to 40 minutes but i looked at it like a little journey or a gradual step towards self settling and would much prefer to spend the time doing this than CIO etc... Anyway, it got quicker, I intervened less and less and he now self settles(some of the time...to be honest, if i get the timing right etc..etc..)Persistence(as you say), determination and consistency are key..(although i am still working through the latter :))

I too thought that pupd might be some kind of magic answer. My DS hated it...he didn't want to be picked up that much, he just wanted to work out how to get to sleep. I found it quite a horrific experience, gave me nightmares and I gave up after three days with no success. Works for some though, guess it depends on baby. I personally like the calmer approach.

good luck xxxxx

[FATEdestiny]

how doing get back to being able to put him down sleepy in his cot?

In terms of sleep physiology, it isn't a case of "get back to", it is more than you now need to teach your baby and before you didn't.

In the newborn fourth trimester phase (up to about 3 or 4 months old), sleep is a passive state. As long as all needs are met, then baby will sleep (just as was the case in the womb). Being awake happens when a need is not met (usually hunger) and then once that need is met, there may be a short period of active time awake but baby will soon return to their passive state of being asleep.

Then babies come out of the newborn phase and from about 3 or 4 months old sleep physiology changes, it matures. Sleep becomes active rather than passive and it matures to be like an adults with sleep cycles including periods of light and deep sleep with small breaks between sleep cycles.

It is at this age that the process of 'getting to sleep' becomes an active process - something you and baby have to actively work at doing. In comparison to the newborn phase where little is needed to get to sleep because it is passive, this feels like a regression. It isn't a regression, it is that the process of sleep has changed permanently and now needs to be actively taught.

It is at this age you need to start thinking about sleep triggers and mechanisms and trying to teach baby to sleep in a way that is sustainable long-term.

Realistic expectations in terms of sleep development to come may also be helpful. Babies start to learn to link sleep cycles from around 5-7 months, so don't expect more than 30-45 minutes sleep for daytime naps. Teaching baby to re-settle back to sleep when waking is good practice, but don't expect it to be successful very often yet.

Also be aware that children don't have the emotional development to go to sleep like an adult (tired, lie down, close eyes, relax, sleep) until school age. Until then baby needs some additional factors to aid sleep - most significantly to feel comforted and secure.

Now is a good time to start thinking about introducing that comfort and security that will be needed long term. Some means for this comforting a child can learn to do for themselves - suck a dummy, snuggle a teddy for example. Other means of comfort need an adult long-term (feeding to sleep, cuddling, rocking in arms) and you need to consider if these are things you want to be doing through until your child is 4 or so years old.

Again set your expectations - you will need to teach baby to go to sleep and you will need to help baby gain comfort until they are at an age where they can access that comfort for themselves independently - that might be 7 months old plus. Have the long-term view in mind.

Do you have a nap routine and how long is his awake time?

Fifi speaks wise words. Watch and limit awake time, rather than time asleep. 4 months old wants about 60-80m awake time between naps. Expect naps of 30-45m.

This will rise to 90-120m awake time between naps once naps start regularly extending past 1h.

What are his naps like at the moment?

[SkiptonLass2]

Hi fate,

He'll regularly sleep in the pram for 90 mins or so especially if it's cold ( babies get bundled up and parked out in the snow to sleep here.)
The last few weeks I've really noticed the transition in sleep. Now he's rousing every 45 mins or so - he can sometimes get back to sleep but sometimes not.

So two hours is too long?thats interesting and I'll take that on board and see what happens.

My main concern is that he's almost rolling over and when that happens he can't be napping on our bed, he needs to learn to sleep in his cot.

I guess its just gentle persistence? Could I start giving him a comfort toy or is he too young for that? I'll persist with the dummy too.

How would you suggest gently getting him into the cot?

[SkiptonLass2]

Hi fifi

We are just putting a rough routine in - I have been putting him down 90-120 mins after last waking but looks like that's too long? I'll shorten it.

We go upstairs , lie down, feed and he is asleep in ten minutes or so. I've been fine with gently retreating As he can't roll over and the bed is huge but once he can roll that's not safe any more (and I ant sit with him all the time- I do occasionally need to pee or do stuff!) but if I pick him up and put him in the cot he yells.

[FATEdestiny]

The pram isn't a bad place for daytime naps. It is convenient and allows you to rock the pram to encourage baby to link sleep-cycles. Just be mindful of rocking him less in the pushchair over-time, so that you work towards him not needing the movement.

But if you are home and could, then starting to move daytime naps into the cot would be a good idea, especially once naps extend.

I would be working on cot sleeping for night time already, but that's just me. Co-sleeping or not is a personal choice. Have you got a bedside cot (a full sized cot with one side removed)? This is a nice transition where baby is in his own space in the cot, but you can still cuddle into him and settle as needed.

Whereabouts are you, if you don't mind me asking? (just with you mentioning snow) You don't need to say, I was just interested and a bit nosey

[SkiptonLass2]

I'm in Sweden :) it's been -25 recently but we just had a big thaw..,

I try to get out for a long walk every day so that's one nap time. He won't accept being put in and rocked indoors but will very occasionally carry on sleeping outside.
I have a big cot by the bed... I hadn't even thought about taking a side off! What a good idea. I think the mattresses are different heights but we could raise the cot I guess. Fabulous idea! Then I can lie him on a towel or muslin and just scoot him over :)

[SkiptonLass2]

If I can't get it set up as a side by side, how would you suggest settling him in the cot?

[FATEdestiny]

Then I can lie him on a towel or muslin and just scoot him over

That's exactly what I've always done. And any wake ups that don't need a feed, you can just lean over while you stay lying in your own bed to settle baby.

Yes to settling in the cot, if possible.