I've run out of no-cry solutions

[bumbleweed]

Dd is now almost 11 months. We've ended up in a situation where I cant put her to bed myself. Only dh can cuddle her to sleep.

As a younger baby she could never go to sleep by herself, she would scream if put down and we had to rock or feed her to sleep.

When she stopped always going to sleep on a feed, I used to rock her, then she started biting and nipping me. Now she just struggles out of my arms and fights me off.

Its as though she wants to be put down, but if I put her down in the cot she cries and stands up again. We dont believe in leaving her to cry. So have ended up where I feed her and do stories and then dh rocks/cuddles her to sleep.

In the night, she wakes up every 1-3 hours (about 5-6 times) and cries. If I pick her up she struggles in my arms until I feed her. I cant cope with that little sleep, so I have reduced her feeds to 3 (my bed-time, and twice during the night) - the other times dh has to go in.

Thing is we are both really tired and I have to go back to work next month . I want to be able to put my own daughter to bed and get her back to sleep again. I need to be able to for the evenings when dh is not here.

We have read the 'No-Cry Sleep Solution' which was suggested last time and tried to implement every suggestion.

I am thinking that the only thing to do stay with her by the side of the cot so that she eventually goes to sleep lying down in there. But I know it will involve so much crying and if she does eventually fall to sleep it will be out of exhaustion and despair. Even the thought breaks my heart.

But I cant see an alternative.

Any advice?

[shatteredmumsrus]

Hello Bumbleweed its that horrible person who didnt buy the book. Im sorry that you are struggling with bed times as I am. Its desperate isnt it. Sleep deprivation was used as torture years ago so my mom said and i can believe it.I just thought id share my story with u. My son was bf til he was 4months and has always loved his milk, even now. It has always been the only thing that gets him to sleep until i had had enough of running up and down the stairs for more milk. It was getting ridiculous. I knew i had to teach him the art of falling asleep. Me and my partner, especially him hated the idea of him crying and screaming so we bought him a soft book and called it bedtime booky and kept putting it on his lap and in his hands when it was bedtime, day and night and eventually he loved it and associates it with bed.God knows what id do if we lost it. I put him to bed with his soft book and say bedtime and he goes off to sleep on his own nearly every night no problem. This is after nights of hearing him scream and scream and bang the cot. It was horrible but it was either that or carry on with the feeding fiasco!If i remember the first night and second night was bad and by the third there was no going back we just kept it up otherwise it would have been a waste of time. The longest he screamed for was an hour and 20 mins. He went quiet for a bit then start up again but i just ignored him. Get a lullaby night light and go in every 10-15 minutes say bedtime and switch it on.Get someone else to sit downstairs while you and your husband go out for an hour. Give them strict instructions not to go in and to be very quiet. It is horrible but you are teaching them something invaluable that they will need forever.Otherwise you'll be doing this til they are 10 and its not good for anyone. That is my advice but it is your choice.
Good luck
xxx

[bumbleweed]

shattered, thank you for telling me about your experience and what worked for you. Are your ds sleep issues sorted now then?

dd has lots of soft toys and things and we had assumed at some point she might get attached to something as a kind of 'lovey' but were leaving it to her choice - nothing as yet

whatever we do, even if she cries, we certainly wont be able to leave the room, or the house . you probably think we are being our own worst enemies, but there's just no way.

[bumbleweed]

anyone else around today?

[colditz]

I'm afraid if you are going to rush to her every time she cries, she is going to cry for you every time she wakes up, because by always having you there when she goes to sleep, she has made the association of sleep = mummy. she has to have you there to go back to sleep. She cries because she is tired, she wants to go to sleep, therefore she needs you there.

If you won't leave the room at all, she will be like this for a very long time IMHO, but if you don't mind that, that is fine.

[shatteredmumsrus]

Everyone is different and its personal choice. He goes to sleep no problem, gets his 'lovey', kisses everyone and we take him up, tuck him in, put lullaby on and sat night night and off he goes. Its just keeping him there that is the problem, he normally wakes 2 or 3 times.

[bumbleweed]

colditz we do mind, that's why we are trying to find a solution

the reason we go to her when she cries is because if we dont she just cries and cries and gets hysterical and then is even harder to settle to sleep

also I feel she will be confused - why does mummy come to me when I cry during the day, but not at night, why does noone comfort me when I feel distressed

[bumbleweed]

psychobabble, it is reassuring to hear that the crying didnt last too long in your case

when you used to put him to bed yourself, did would he lie down and go to sleep, or did you have to rock him? ie did he understand the concept of lying down to go to sleep before dh did the 3 nights thing?

[shatteredmumsrus]

Well i know you dont agree with CC but its the only thing that has workes for us and we are not there yet.I started it last friday and last night he went to bed at 8 and didnt wake up til 4, i put lullaby on and he went back to sleep til 6!!!Amazing. If i compare that to last week of getting up every hour its unbelievable. I wish i had tried it sooner. Listening to them cry is hard but it doesnt last forever and as long as they are safe there is no problem. You have to be cruel to be kind. It worked with my eldest son too and he sleeps 8 til 8 no problem every night.

[colditz]

bumbleweed, what I was trying to point out is that you are going to have to make a choice - do you get up to your daughter every time she cries, or don't you.

If you do, she will (rightly) learn that whenever she wants you there, for whatever reason (a drink, a feed, to cuddle you, to see you, to smell you, to hear you, to watch you walking about), all she has to do is cry, and you will come. She now has a sleep association that is you. That will mean every time she opens her eyes, she is going to cry.

If you don't, you are going to have to teach her to go to sleep without you being there. This will probably mean leaving her to cry, because if you go in every time she cries, she won't be able to go to sleep without you there, you will always be there when she is awake.

Obviously you do mind, I was trying to be polite and point out that you can't have it both ways.

[shatteredmumsrus]

Bumbleweed - read the latest messages on the Controlled Crying thread, there is some really good advice and experiences on there x

[duvet]

Hey Bumbleweed, i just to say hi cos you answered my thread, I should be grateful my dd sleeps thru, mostly, hope you come up with a strategy that you can cope with soon.

[bumbleweed]

thanks duvet

last night was awful - dh working late so I had to go to settle her every time - she just struggles in my arms until I feed her

dh got in late, and ended up going to her a few times - I can hear him singing twinkle twinkle in the baby monitor

think we need to teach her to go to sleep lying down in her cot - but think it could be a long painful process

[MatNanPlus]

Bumbleweed does she have blankets? cot bumpers? i wonder if changing her enviroment might help in the new settling plan.

Maybe try a sleeping bag, a travel cot.

I would look thru the book again and find an approach you can both happily follow and stick with it, it may well take weeks to show a change but changing approaches will confuse her and make her unsettled even more.

[bumbleweed]

Matnan thanks for your reply - we have abandoned sleeping bag because she was getting all twisted

she moves around alot and seems to bump into the sides of the cot, but cot-bumpers are not recommended are they, because of overheating?

I have been wondering whether her cot mattress is too soft and therefore she is rolling against the sides more. I just thought perhaps baby ones were meant to be soft - but havent looked at other options.

the problem with what the book suggests, is that it envisages you rocking or feeding baby until sleepy but not quite asleep and then putting them down and therefore withdrawing contact slowly but surely over time

our dd doesnt really have a 'sleepy' state - she is either awake and resisting sleep or asleep

if we put her down almost asleep she just cries and wakes herself right up again

[MatNanPlus]

True Bumble i dont use cot bumpers and i recently tucked the end of the sleeping bag under the mattress as baby was kicking and disturbing herself.

Some mattresses are much firmer and she could feel more secure.

I would suggest you have a long wind down routine and then a story in bed and one of you sits by the cot no eye contact and no talking/humming and just gets up lies her down again says "sleep time" and sits down, it will take many, many resettles as it will be new to her and you could take it in turns every 30 mins or so so you both get a break but she gets the same message from both of you at the same time, it won't be quick but it will help her teach herself how to self settle, i would also give her very little fruit/veg at teatime and concentrate on carbs so her digestion isn't whirring away.

Yes i expect she will complain loudly at this new tactic but you are with her and by not interacting with her she will not rely on you to get her to sleep but will learn to do it herself.

Do you have any family that could help do this?