How the hell can it be enough sleep!

[lazzaroo]

dd2, almost 1 year old. Seems to be surviving on a stupidly small amount of sleep (I am not!). She has always been an early riser but the past few days she has been waking at 4/4.30am! We've tried leaving her. Yesterday was okay (ish) & she did eventually go back to sleep but this morning was a compete waste of everyone's time & efforts. Gave up at 6am, fed her & got up.

She typically has a nap 2-3 hours after waking and then another after lunch if she can last that long. These have also been ridiculously short recently. I know it sounds like over tiredness but she's coping very well on it. Not grumpy or whingey....until about now.

She'll be in bed at 6ish.

She has a tooth poking through & started walking a few weeks ago.

How do we correct this?! Or do we give up trying & just get on with it!

[minipie]

DD went through a phase like this. She usually has fairly little sleep (maybe 12-12.5 hours per day) but at one point it was down to 10-11 hours incl naps.

It was just a phase though, she went back to 12 hours after a little while.

You could try pushing bedtime back v gradually? DD now goes to bed at 7.45 and wakes at 6-6.30, with a 7pm bedtime it was 5.30, god knows when she'd have woken with a 6pm bedtime

[lazzaroo]

Thanks. Tried a little later bedtime last night. 4am start today. Forced her to have a late nap this afternoon so that bedtime could shift later again & trying to avoid over tiredness. She's just settling now. Fingers crossed!

[minipie]

how did it go? it can take a few days for any adjusted wake up time to kick in as the habit of 4am has to be overcome.

[lazzaroo]

She woke at 3am. After an hour I gave her a cup of milk (I know, bad habit!) and she went back to sleep. But only till 5am. I had absolutely no energy to do anything about it so we got up. It was then a nightmare getting her settled for nap. She slept for 40 mins at 8am. We've been out all morning so she's just gone down for another nap. She so obviously needs a long nap but I just know it'll be another 40 mins.

I'm very tired & snappy at dd1 it's not fair.

Thanks for checking back in

[BrianTheMole]

What does she do when she wakes? Does she start crying? Are you going in too early without giving her long enough to resettle? I used to put little books and toys at the end of dc's cot. When they woke up they would have a little play with them, I could hear they were awake but didn't go in unless I really had to. I found that most of the time they fell back asleep again, unless their nappies were full of poo.

[BrianTheMole]

Don't give milk btw. If you have to give something, make it water, but try not to do that either. You don't want to get into the habit of providing something for her to wake up for.

[BrianTheMole]

I found that I was the problem when getting dc asleep. All my fussing actually made things worse. I found I had more success if I kissed them goodnight, walked away, and stayed away unless they were really distressed.

[80sMum]

Is her room warm enough? If heating goes off overnight could she be being woken by being a bit too cold? Or conversely, could she be too warm, sweating during the night and waking up thirsty?
Does she sleep in a gro-bag or under a blanket? Sometimes blankets get kicked off, so she might get cold.
Is there any other extraneous thing that could be waking her? Does she have nappy rash, could it hurt when she wets and that could be waking her?

[lazzaroo]

I leave her. 2 nights ago we were at it for 2 hours, from 4am-6am. Cuddle, say night, leave her etc etc. She as toys in her cot which works for a bit but not long. She also scratches & pulls at her hair/skin when upset so can't leave her for too long or she hurts herself. We also have another DD to think about.

I was desperate last night. I need sleep & the milk worked. She's waking up anyway & has been for ages without being rewarded with anything.

She has just woken. So another 40 minute nap. I've tried to re-settle her but she won't have it. Even though she's obviously still tired.

[lazzaroo]

She is in a gro bag. Have tried all combinations of layers etc. I suspect teeth might be waking her but she won't resettle easily even after calpol etc

Dd1 also woke frequently & was early riser. She has enlarged tonsils & a sleep study has just confirmed that she suffers breathing difficulties at night. I always worry there's a genuine reason for her behaviour that we are just ignoring.

[shamble]

lazzaroo no words of wisdom but huge sympathies - we've had similar problems. Do you have a DP who can do any shifts at night so you can catch up on some sleep?

[minipie]

Oh jeez, sorry if my late bedtime idea has made things worse

Oddly enough my DD has just begun another phase of sleep refusal. Yesterday she only had two 30 min naps (required long pram walk to get her to sleep, and a much bigger awake interval than usual) and then only slept 9.75 hrs at night. 8 pm asleep, 5.45 wake up. So I guess that's similar to you albeit shifted two hours later.

Today has been much the same, not looking forward to tonight.

I think it doesn't help that we are at home more than usual due to weather/Christmas prep/playgroups ended etc. And she's starting to walk (but your dd is already walking so it can't be that for her). is your dd on the verge of anything else? talking maybe?

here's hoping this is a short phase!

[lazzaroo]

It doesn't matter mini pie I'm willing to try anything. Although I always fear pushing bedtime back as with dd1 she'd just wake up the same time & be grumpy! I hope you get a good night.

We've been out this afternoon & she's been fine. Again, no whingey-ness.

I think I maybe just have to come to terms with it.

DP works away 2-3days a week but helps out when he's home. It's a killer when I'm home alone!! Early night for me tonight!!

[lizzywig]

I have had had my fair share of sleep problems with dd who is now 2 but the one thing that has remained consistent is that the more sleep she gets, the more she will want and the less she has the more she refused it.

How does she settle at bedtime? My inclination is for you to try the gradual retreat as it teaches self settling. I remember doing this a year ago on the run up to xmas as dd was waking at 4am. You have to do it if they wake in the night and in the end they get it. Please try it, worth a try?

[rachyconks]

DD (13mths) was a bit like this. The only thing that solved the problem was sorting out her daytime naps. She gets up about 7, goes back down at 10:00-10:30am for about 2 hours, then has 45 mins - 1 hour in afternoon (around 3-3:30). It took week of staying in the house and doing sleep training to get her to nap properly. We found the key was routine, putting her down at exactly the same time every day.

Hope it gets better soon. I hate being woken too early :-(

[minipie]

Hmm see DD self settles fine these days, so don't think that would help us.

Napping - if DD woke at 7 never happens she wouldn't be tired enough to nap for 2 hours at 10am. She woke at 5.45 today (having gone to bed at 8) and she wasn't tired till 10. Some children just don't need much sleep sadly!

[lazzaroo]

She can self settle. Sometimes she falls asleep feeding but usually goes down awake. I can't spend a week at home to 'sort' naps. I have a 4 year old who needs to get out & do things!

We had another shocker last night. Awake 1-2.30am then up at 4.30am. Nap for 40mins at 7.30am, has just had another 30 mins. Will have another nap this afternoon. She used to nap for longer but isn't at the moment. Even if I manage to re-settle her by rocking, she wakes as soon as she is out down. I can't let her sleep on me in the day, again I have her sister to think of too.

Guess there's no easy answer but thanks for suggestions anyway.

[minipie]

Naps - will your dd nap in the buggy? I use the buggy for naps because dd sometimes wakes after only a short nap, when I know she needs longer. (she used to do this all the time, now it's rare and only when she's teething/overtired). If she's in the buggy (with dark shade over it) I can often rock her back to sleep within a few mins, whereas if she was in the cot I'd never be able to resettle her.

[lazzaroo]

Yeah, she had one nap in pushchair today. Wouldn't go back to sleep! Sometimes she will, sometimes not. It's all so unpredictable, which s why our 'routine' has always worked on hours awake not set nap times.

[NK5BM3]

Is she waking because she's hungry? Alternatively she may not need so much naps now.

My two have never been great nappers or sleepers. And they still aren't (5 and 3). But the big one goes to bed about 9 and wakes about 7.30. The little one a little later.

[lazzaroo]

I don't know NK. this morning she woke at 4am. Gave her some milk but she still wouldn't settle. DH got up with her & she ate a whole weetabix before going back to sleep at 6.20am. She woke again at 7am & has had a bowl of shreddies, half a slice of toast and about 100ml milk.

She eats well during the day & has porridge, banana or similar before bed so I don't know how we can possibly up her calorie intake!

[lazzaroo]

Best present ever, she slept 6.30 to 5.15 with brief wake up at 2am. Didn't do anything different yesterday so she remains a mystery!

[lazzaroo]

And she went back down at 8.15 & is still asleep