Those who have survived controlled crying....

[barbie1]

Can you please tell me how?

DD is 7.5 months and had never been a good sleeper.

She was crawling at 4 months, standing at 5 months and almost walking now. The doctors tell me she is forward and that she finds it difficult to switch off

We live abroad so have no family or close friends to help, hence having to give cc a go for all our sakes

So here we are 3 weeks in, i put her to bed awake, she cries, stands up and paces the cot. I leave. Go back, lie her down and it starts again.

We went from crying for 2 hours (on and off, never longer than 10 mins before i checked her) to her letting me lie her down and patting her off to sleep after about 20 to 30 mins of crying.

Never once has she just laid down and gone to sleep.

She naps well in the day, has a routine for bed etc etc.

How can i encourage her to lie down and not scream for hours???

I know cc is a highly emotive subject and i don't wish to be flamed for doing this... I really do think its the only option i have left now.

Barbie No help I'm afraid, but a huge (((hug))) for you, and I hope someone comes along with some advice soon. How are you feeling? Any better?
What happens if you leave D standing? Does she just cry until you lie her down? I so hope things get easier for you really soon.
Lots of love xxx

Honestly I wouldn't do cc at such a young age, but then my fist two had dummies and last two bf to sleep. How does she go to sleep in the day?

She's very young and perhaps you tried some of the methods too early and made her a little insecure? (not trying to make you feel shit) What's wrong with patting her for 20 minutes?

I've done CC with all three of my DC, but never as young as 7.5 months, usually from 9 months upwards. You do sound like you're making progress from 2hrsto just 30 minutes though.

Can you put her in a sleeping bag so that she can't get up as easy?

Is it too dark/light in her room? Maybe a night light?

Her current age is when babies get clingy, so maybe just a phase she is going through? Has she aways been like this or has it started recently?

Just to say my last two had reflux and so cried a lot and I have no help either. Is there a reason you are so determined that she goes to bed and just goes to sleep? Do you think she should be doing this? Does it really matter?

Did you know that when they're on the verge of walking they can't self settle? The trademark signs of this inability are standing in their cot, anger, frustration, sadness, this behaviour continuing despite best efforts to help them self soothe.

I admit I don't like cc but it is well researched. Big developmental milestones like walking take a lot of effort for their brains and they cannot self settle. It's as frustrating for them as it is for you.

Have you tried anything else? Other methods?

I had a similar child. Very desperate to be mobile, hated lying down, wanted to run before she could crawl. Sleep was a nightmare. But I knew she was frustrated by being trapped inside a body that wasn't developing fast enough for her. I worked on making my life easier. Co-sleeping, comforting her, cuddling her. Whatever it took.

It's so hard.

well... look at your title

"has anyone survived controlled crying"

do you think your daughter will survive ti?

she's very young, she is doing a LOT developmentally.
why do you feel she needs to fall asleep by herself? what's wrong with cuddling her or feeding her?

and if after 3 weeks it still isn't working i would suggest that you give it a break

Pat her to sleep

My DD became very wakeful when she learnt to crawl and sit, as did my DS

It is normal and you can't sleep train them through it IMO

The other night DD woke and wouldn't settle - she was pawing at my top which is her sifpgn for wanting a feed

So, I fed her even though she hasn't had a night feed for ages ... Sometimes they just need you/hugs/cuddles/feeds and that is ok

I come firmly from the school of thought that ability to self settle is developmental. I don't think you 'teach' it. Maybe it's a developmental milestone that she isn't ready for yet.

I know you're tired but nightime parenting with such a little baby is as important as daytime parenting.

I looked at it from the pov of, what's the easiest, quickest way of making everybody happy and well-slept? CC at 7.5 months is achieving neither for you atm.

Agree that self settling goes out the window when somethings up like learning to crawl/walk or illness etc etc. People who use CC have to "retrain" their babies after a "bad spell".

My DS has funny periods where he wont self settle which just requires an extra bit of cuddling/feeding or patting. Other times he settles just fine.

Try not to pressure yourself into having a baby who magically drifts off. If you've got something on your mind it can be hard to relax, right? Well it's even more the case for your little one.

Ditch CC for now and try something more soothing. She needs more reassurance and physical comfort I reckon.

Is she waking a lot in the night?

Ie. only sleeping for two or three hours and then crying out again?

If not, and she actually manages to sleep quite well, and only wake once, or wake very early, then I would accept that from a 7.5 month old baby.

Controlled crying does work well fine but, imvho, should be saved for when you could reasonably expect a baby to sleep all night without parental presence. So, when they are well in to the weaning process, when they get properly tired during the day from lots of physical exertion, when they have settled down to one long nap during the day, when they are completely used to sleeping in a separate room from the adults.

We did sleep 'encouraging' from about that age and it worked well. I don't know why people think it's necessarily too early.

Thanks for all the replies...

Dd has always been a poor sleeper, i was more than happy to co sleep, cuddle, feed to sleep etc etc. We have done the shh pat method and a whole host of others.

It's not that i'm desperate to go to sleep on her own, i'm more than happy to pat her to sleep...just not every 45/90 mins throughout each and every night.

The main reason is that i'm scared something bad will happen due to lack of sleep, very nearly crashed the car on Dubai's main road...I'm scared that i wont be fast enough to catch her when she takes yet another topple in her quest to be walking etc etc.

Seriously i really am at my wit's end

I have read so much research into all of this and believe me its not a decision i have taken lightly.

If she had once been a good sleeper then i could accept this is just a blip, but sadly she is one determined little lady.

Im open to other ideas if anyone can help?

Ah yes my DS was like this. I thought you were just using CC for the start of the night.

We found an early bedtime really helped (6.30pm) as he'd be so overtired he wouldn't sleep well at night. Also at that age he needed 3-4 naps a day (he'd only nap for 45 mins at a time).

You might need to go for an earlier bedtime as she would have lost sleep with the CC which could make things harder.

He got better around 6-7 months when he learned to sleep on his front. We had a few blips due to solids giving him bad wind plus learning to walk, teething etc. Then worse at 9 months and now better at 1.

Can you try a method of soothing which is not as stimulating as CC or patting? So pick up til she stops crying, gently rock til drowsy then put down and stroke her back til she falls asleep? So you're teaching to self settle in a slower fashion.

I found this book very helpful although long winded in places.

I did find watching this programme gave me some more ideas with mine and also showed the difference between both methods, tbh they both got fairly good results I thought. It doesn't seem to be on 4OD right now but you can read their tips.

You're probably feeling completely at your wits end right now with exhaustion if she is waking that often at night. Try not to do anything rash despite how exhausted you feel I do often refer to that book even now, he does talk about CC in there, however I found by following lots of his other advice I maanged to avoid CC in the end. Can I send you a very unmumsnetty ((hug)) it must be hard for you right now x

I agree with tea, that's a great book I've used myself!

I think you are right to take lack of sleep (yours) seriously. Lack of sleep can cause depression. And it can be dangerous, as you say, if you need to drive.

As I said, both mine were about this age when we started 'encouraging'. They don't seem to have suffered any ill effects. They are 12 and 13 now.

I feel for you. My DS was the same, walking at 8.5 months and loath to go to sleep. We never really cracked controlled crying although the health visitor said I should persist. DS became so distresssed, pacing the cot and screaming that he started to dig holes in his own scalp and made himself bleed and in the end I gave up.

The only encouragement I can offer is that somewhere about 15 months, after him staying up until 11pm every night and me wondering if I would ever get an evening to myself or a decent night's sleep again, at about 8pm I just asked him if it was sleepy time and he reached out to be picked up. I put him to bed (in a bed), curled up beside him for 10 minutes until he was sound asleep and that was it.

The problem just went away and never came back. It's not much of a new tactic though, sorry.

Hello,

I'd say I'd reached your stage of desperate tiredness from such a prolonged lack of sleep when dd1 was 9 mths old (continuous night waking). Probably not an exaggeration to say it nearly broke our marriage.

I wasn't wise enough to come to your decision that I could fix it, but my dh did and he took over. He said when I was popping in every 10 mins from his listening remotely it sounded as though I was disturbing her more and I should leave it longer. I went out and left him to it. He was tough. 45 mins crying night one, 20 mins night two, my dd has been a perfect sleeper ever since (she's 7 now). She needed us as her parents to teach her that going to sleep on her own was ok and good and she could do it.

Whether or not it was the best thing for our dd (I happen to think it certainly was, with hindsight) it was certainly the best thing for us as parents and for our jobs/relationship/ability to care for her with patience and energy. Good luck. If you do decide to do it, you only really have one shot. Giving up halfway WILL make her more determined to get you to give in on subsequent attempts.

Lots of support and good wishes to you!

Goodmorning ladies,

Last night was horrid, 6 x wakings all before 10.30pm after being put to bed at 7pm.

I fed to sleep the first 3 times, it was only after her waking every 5 mins the last three times that i started the cc....we were still there at 2am. (i picked her up and tried to shh/ pat her a few times too)

So i have concluded with a little help from all of you that cc isn't working for us right now.

Which brings me back to needing some help.

I cant feed to sleep each at every wake up, my boobs just can't handle being pinched, scratched and pulled every 45 minutes. She refuses a bottle (but thats a whole different thread!)

More than happy to pat her back to sleep but the problem is she will not lie down, wants to be up and pacing the cot. Once we lie her down the crying starts and the whole thing starts again. This is where the cc came in, we would leave her and keep going back in until she would lie down and let us pat her to sleep.

Rocking her to sleep has no effect what so ever, unless she is still a little awake from a feed and the rocking will send her off, but like i said i cant feed her every time.

5inthebed thanks for your suggestions, we are in Dubai so all of the sleeping bags seem too heavy and anyway she freaked out at not being able to move so freely. We have a night light, she is like a moth...she gets drawn to it and refuses to sleep because she likes looking at it!
At about the 20 week mark she would sleep from 6.30pm until 2.30am. At this time my mum was out and she was able to give her a bottle, she was also not as mobile so she would just lie in the cot and let us pat her to sleep. So no, she hasnt always been like this.

showofhands you are of course right, the developmental mile stones have in fact thrown her at each stage. How did you overcome this? We have tried other methods but none seem to have any effect, bar the feeding to sleep.

teaandcakeplease thank you, i watched the program on 4od, in fact it was after watching it that we started the cc. The book looks promising i will keep a look out for it.

abr1de can i ask how you did the sleep encouragement?

madrush thanks for sharing your story. If i was a case of only 45 mins the first night and 20 mins the next i would continue but sadly for us that doesn't seem to be the case My dh is very supportive but dd only seems to settle with me.

So has anyone else got any suggestions for getting the little monkey to settle? Im not looking for ways to get her to go through the night, im happy to feed her a few times through out. I just want her to have more than 45 mins of sleep at a time.

barbie really sorry to hear you had another tough night.

TBH it sounds like she's massively overtired and needs to catch up on sleep for things to improve.

Can you consult a sleep clinic? You can do it over the phone. I know you're in Dubai so the call charges will cost alone, but I think it'll be worth it. Others on MN have used them successfully. Here's a link to Millpond

Barbie - I really, really feel for you. I am in the 'it's ok to encourage your baby to self settle' camp. I've also been at my wits end in your situation and we eventually resolved it with the help of these people. We had three phone consultations with them and they designed a plan for us. 2 years on, ds still sleeps like an angel - going to sleep happy and content and waking up 12 hours later. I honestly believe that we did the right thing for him and us; we are all much better rested and a happier family. It cost about £80 for the consultations. It some of the best money I have ever spent.

Good luck.

iggly thanks for taking your time and coming back. I will take a look at the link and if all else fails will give them a call. We do have a lady who can come to the house and help sort out all the problems, at 500 pounds it's not cheap but might be the way we have to go.

I agree, come 2am she was overtired but she still wouldn't give in a lie down, we ended up in my bed and i fed her to sleep.

We are going to continue co-sleeping for a short while until i'm satisfied she is getting enough sleep at night and then i will try a different approach.

Why gets me though is the fact her day days naps are good! every 2 hours she will nap for 45 mins and stay asleep...just why not at night?

To be honest it sounds like you are doing too many techniques, pick one and stick with it.

7months is still young, i did cc with mine at 12months and to be honest if you do it you have to follow it, no feed to sleep no shush pat its confusing otherwise and that means she doesnt know what to expect from you.

My DD never slept well and woke 2 hourly till 12 months, my sympathies, the book recomended is good, maybe try the gradual withdrawal technique?

x post blameitonthebogey thankyou also, i will look into your link too.

I cant stop crying today, i cant even go to my mum's or anyone else for some support. It's days like today that being an expat isn't so much fun.