Our appeal was not upheld

[Gymbob]

Hi All

This is my first post, so apologies if I was supposed to intro myself somewhere else first!

I'm hoping that someone out there can help us. Our appeal was rejected for our daughter's preferred secondary school. She has special needs, and is on the special needs register, but does not have an SEN. The school we appealed for is massively oversubscribed which was the reason for us not being successful. They also said that our daughter's needs can be met at our allocated school (we disagree), but half of them can be.

Since the appeal we have discovered that the chairman on the appeal panel is also a governor at our allocated school. We know that nobody connected with the school we are appealing for is allowed to sit on the panel, but is someone connected to the allocated school allowed to sit? I'm having trouble finding the answer.

Thanks so much for any replies, they will be so welcome.

Gymbob x x

[prh47bridge]

Being connected to the allocated school doesn't directly disqualify someone from sitting on the appeal panel. However, panel members are supposed to disclose "whether there may be any potential for their independence and objectivity to be challenged in relation to a particular school or family." If you feel the chair should have disclosed his connection to the allocated school you could try referring the case to the Local Government Ombudsman. Even if they agree with you, the most you can expect is a further appeal with a new panel.

Since your daugher has special needs which you think will not be met at the allocated school, you could ask for an assessment of her needs. This may lead to a statement of SEN which would give you another way of getting your daughter into your preferred school without the need for a further appeal. There is, however, no guarantee that the assessment would lead to a statement.

[prh47bridge]

Pixie - I presume the OP means she doesn't have a statement, hence my suggestion of getting her assessed with the intention of getting a statement. That would avoid the need for another appeal completely, nor would it be necessary to prove that the other school will not meet her needs.

To clarify, as part of the process of producing a statement the parents are asked what school they want their child to attend. There are only very limited grounds under which the LA can refuse to accept this choice. They certainly can't refuse simply on the basis that there is another school which will meet the child's needs. Once the preferred school is named on the child's statement, the school HAS to admit her even if it is full.

[admission]

PixieOnaleaf,
I suspect that gymbob meant to say that daughter has Special Needs but has not got a statement.

I would have to agree that unless you can categorically prove that only the applied for school could meet your daughter's needs that you will not win an appeal. The LA will always argue that any school can manage the special needs of a pupil who is not statemented and it is very difficult to argue against that.

Having said that for the Chair of the Panel to have a direct relationship to the school you have been allocated and do and say nothing is unacceptable. Regretably sometimes things do happen where a connection comes to light. I would accept that it probably did not become apparent till part way through stage 2 but at that point they really ought to have called a short adjournment to discuss with the Clerk. I would have expected that talk to have resulted in the Chair informing both you as the appealant and the Local Authority of the connection and asking whether in the circumstances you wanted to continue. That is set down in paragraph 1.15 of the admission appeals code. I would ask for a ruling from the LGO on this, but frankly even if they ask for a second appeal to be heard I don't think you will win based on what you have said in the post.

[Gymbob]

Thanks all for your replies.

Sorry, I didn't quite explain myself properly, although you worked it out for yourselves!

She has special needs and is on the special needs register receiving school action plus, but she is not statemented. We have recently re-applied to have her assessed for a statement of SEN, but were refused because the school does not give her 15 hours of support.

I had quite categorical expert backing from teachers, hospital consultants, etc clearly stating that the school we were appealing for was the closest and most appropriate school to meet our daughter's needs. She has very specific difficulties, and needs a particular environment for her to flourish. The panel obviously disagreed and took the mountain of support we had as opinions and not facts.

I have been told today that the chair on the panel is possibly no longer a governor at our alloocated school, and I intend to find out for sure. He certainly still was when the school's prospectus went to print last summer. To me this still suggests that he was not sufficiently neutral to sit on the panel.

Does anyone agree?

Thanks a lot

G x

[prh47bridge]

I certainly think the chair would have been wise to raise the matter and allow you to decide whether or not to continue. You clearly feel strongly about this so I suggest you refer the case to the LGO. If they agree that this was inappropriate they will order a new appeal.

[Gymbob]

Thanks very much prh. I have contacted the allocated school today to ask whether the chair is still a governor but am still awaiting their reply.

Do you happen to know how else I might find out this information and be sure that it is bang up to date?

thanks

G xx

[prh47bridge]

The only other possibility that springs to mind would be to ask the LA. They should know who the governors are. Other sources such as the school's website may not be up to date.

If you are trying to check what the LA has told you, the only source I can think of is the school.

[admission]

Have a look on the website of the school and see if they have a list of the governors on it.

To be honest it does not matter whether they are still a governor or not. The simple fact is they were a governor at the school and therefore should have declared that.

[mummytime]

I would also be appealing that statement issue. I can't see the school not giing 15 hours support being a reason not to give you a statement. Try IPSEA or SENSOS for advice (or maybe your local parent partnership).

[Gymbob]

Thanks again folks for your replies. I have contacted the local education officer, who said that the chair hasn't been a governor at the allocated school for 'some months'. He is still listed on the school's website as a governor, and they still haven't replied to my email.

I am still not satisfied that he was sufficiently neutral to sit on the panel to I have complained to the LGO. Not sure I would have done that if I hadn't received advice here - so thanks a lot.

mummytime - my local parent partnership advised that my daughter will not meet the criteria for a statement, and when I applied about 6 months ago to request an assessment of SEN we were refused.

[Gymbob]

Another question please - if the LGO decides to order a fresh appeal, will the new panel be privvy as to the reasons why, ie. us doubting a fellow panellists integrity?

Not that I don't think they're all as thick as thieves or anything !! Much. They're all local(ish) people and their paths seem to cross all over the place.

Thanks peeps

G x

[prh47bridge]

The new panel will not be told that it is a second appeal, let alone the reasons. They may pick up the fact it is a second appeal from the vibes. The clerk will be aware it is a second appeal and should also know the reason why. It is the clerk's job to make sure the second appeal doesn't go wrong in the same way as the first.

[clam]

Do you really think that the presence of this panellist swung it against you, and you would have won had he not been there?
I only ask, as it sounds as if you have pinned all your hopes on the very slim chance that it will be different a second time. I understand you feel desperate about the whole situation, but even so. Are there any other solutions at all?

[Gymbob]

Thanks prh, that sounds fair to me.

Clam - we had extremely strong evidence in our favour. I know that counts for not a lot and plenty of people could have had a stronger reasons for admission. But that said - we hired a barrister to go over our case - and even without his input he thought we had an extremely good chance. When our appeal wasn't upheld I googled all the panellists' names and that's when I discovered, in my opinion, an unsavoury connection.

So yes, in answer to your question I do think we may have had more of a chance if the ex governor panellist hadn't been there. I don't actually feel desperate, but I do feel that the appeal wasn't fair and if a second panel dismiss our appeal then fine. We feel very fortunate that our daughter has got a place in an excellent oversubscribed school that have been holding appeals themselves.

The transitionary period will be more than is usual because of her disability and I am happy with it. We are sure she will do well at the school - but she would do better at the other. There are no other solutions that we know of.

FYI - my daughter knows nothing of the appeal anyhow so is completely oblivious to it all. We have told her she is going to the best school for her. We don't have much choice, but we are well aware that she could pick up bad vibes from us so we make sure she doesn't get any and she is happy.

G x

[admission]

gymbob,
Sorry to be a little rude but I am not sure that hiring a barrister should convince you that you had good reasons for admission.
If I had a pound for every appealant who has said they have good reasons for admission which actually are not, then I would be rich!
What you think and what a barrister thinks are good reasons are not necessarily the same as good reasons according to the admissions code. If your barrister was an expert in admission code then maybe that is good advice otherwise maybe not.
I do commend you not involving your daughter, it is far better than she does not pick up the concerns that you have.

[Gymbob]

I don't think you're being rude - I like a good discussion! I would be rather interested to hear whether or not you think our reasons are good or not actually.

Of course, every parent thinks that their reasons are better than the next. And if the complication regarding the chair of the panel is taken out, then I am appalled with the admissions code. It caters for statemented children - but all those special needs children with diagnosed conditions, have to fight to get the most appropriate schools. In my opinion special needs children with documented support from relevant professionals should also be high on the admission policies.

As it is we are in a very grey area with nobody to help us.

G x

[admission]

Gymbob,
I am quite happy to hear what your reasons are, either as a post or privately to [email protected]

I do agree with you that children with SEN can be left very much struggling to get a sensible place in a school. However you do have to understand that government policy for probably 10 years has been that most children with SEN can be educated in mainstream classes. The problem is, as far as I am concerned, that there is a major disconnect between the theory and the practical when it comes to having suitable support for these children in a main stream class and also whether it is the best palce educationally and socially for them. Another consideration is the issue of the other 29 pupils in the class.

However admission code does not really recognise children with SEN, other than with a statement. As I have said in effect the assumption that has to be made is that they can easily cope in a main stream class. The only potential for SEN to be considered is if there is a medical criteria in the admissions criteria, but many do not.

[Gymbob]

I will be very interested to hear your views and will email you later. Thank you.

[MsDav]

Have to agree with Gymbob here. I'm also a mother of a child with SN but not statemented. My son doesn't need a statement he has no need of extra support within the classroom but he does need to be in a specific school due to his emotional needs and his diagnosed conditions which would be more easily managed at the school we have appealed for. There should be (IMHO) a form of statement that doesn't come with funding but which recognises those sorts of needs and makes provision for school placement.

My son can cope perfectly fine in a mainstream class but will not cope in a large school which only pays lip service to the needs of children with his sort of diagnosis. There is a mainstream school a short bus ride away that is half the size of the one he has been given a place at which also has an excellant reputation with children who have these conditions such as ADHD, Dyspraxia, etc etc Like Gymbob said, its a grey area that needs sorting out. The schools won't consider our children under exceptional social or medical need and so we end up having to go to appeal.

We had our appeal last week and should hear this week. I have no nails.

[wasuup3000]

Gymbob have you considered appealing to SENDIST see the IPSEA website against your LEA's refusal assess your daughter for a statement?

[Gymbob]

MsDav Thanks for your support, you have put your feelings across perfectly. I wish you all the best for your appeal being upheld. Pls let me know if you are successful.

G x

Wasuup I have complained to the LGO but will look into the leads you have mentioned. thank you.

G x

[Gymbob]

Admission

I just tried to send you an email and it has failed due to a permanent error in the address (it says). Is there another way to contact you? Hang on I've just knocked the 's' off admissions, so will try again.

Thanks
G x

[bourboncreme]

You have my sympathies,we also have a ds with SEN but no statement.Our LEA is dreadful for statements for conditions like his they seem to have no understanding or real influence ,in despair we have gone private(I am very well aware we are very priviliged to be able to do this)and he is now at a specialist school where the expectations of him are high dahe is responding to them