Latymer Edmonton appeal

[timeforaholiday]

Has anyone had, or does anyone know anyone that has had, a successful appeal at Latymer? Mine wasn't successful but am interested to know if anyone ever gets through the appeal stage! Very traumatic and ultimately pointless!

[prh47bridge]

I don't have any specific information on Latymer but around 35% of all secondary school appeals in England are successful. It is therefore likely that there have been some successful appeals for Latymer. If you want to know for sure, make a Freedom of Information request to the LA.

[timeforaholiday]

Thanks - what's a Freedom of Information request?

[prh47bridge]

It is request for information under the Freedom of Information Act. Go to this page on Enfield's website and click on the "Ask a Question" tab. Click on the "Select a service" box and a dropdown list will appear. Click on the arrow next to "Your Council" then click on "Freedom of Information". Fill in the rest of the form and off you go.

If they aren't already collecting specific statistics for The Latymer they may say that it is too expensive to collect the information. However, I would be a little surprised if they aren't able to give you the figures for the last year or two.

[timeforaholiday]

Thanks, will do that. If anyone out there has some info on successful Latymer appeals I would be very interested to know the grounds, as I thought we had a really strong case!

[GypsyMay]

I've a feeling that only cases of maladministration would win, i.e. Latymer or one of the councils messed up resulting in someone not being allocated a place who should have been.

The headmaster made reference to illness during his talk, but I think it would not be grounds unless something happened very suddenly during a test with no warning, and I'm not sure that even that would be enough. I think if feeling unwell before the test it is necessary to defer to the reserve day.

Unfotunately whilst all the children who gain entry to Latymer are able, not all of the most able will make it, due to underpormance on the day for whatever reason and there is no mechanism to address that.

I'm afraid I don't have experience of appeals so these are just my impressions based on talks etc.

[prh47bridge]

This is a secondary school so it isn't just cases of maladministration that will win. However, it is a selective school with admission criteria almost entirely about performance in tests which makes it much harder to win on other grounds. Having said that, their admission criteria are very poorly worded. It is clear what they meant to say but a panel looking at what they actually say could easily decide to admit a child.

[timeforaholiday]

Thanks - can I ask prh47bridge what you think is badly worded in their admission criteria?

[prh47bridge]

The whole thing, to be honest. If you take them literally, any child in the postcode areas listed in criteria 2 should be admitted regardless of whether or not they've passed the entrance test as criteria 2 is higher priority than the test. That clearly isn't what they mean as they are a selective school, but it is what their admission criteria say.

Then you get to point 5 which says you separate candidates with the same score by looking at their first round score and, if that fails, looking at their second round score. But if they've got the same total score and the same score in the first round, they are bound to have the same score in the second round. The admission criteria give no indication as to how they resolve the situation when that happens.

It is obvious enough what they meant to say but an appeal panel could have fun with this if they wanted to cause problems for the school.

As a matter of interest, what was your case?

[bruffin]

The criteria you mention are only if there is over subscription

"Only girls and boys who are deemed capable of following an education leading to the higher grades of GCSE in a full range of National Curriculum subjects are eligible to be considered for admission to the school. The Governors will judge whether a candidate fulfils these requirements by reference to tests to be taken at the school. Please Note: The school will be oversubscribed once more than 180 candidates score at least 70 out of 80 on the Non Verbal Reasoning (NVR) test."

The way I read it you take the test they apply following criteria to those who have passed.

" 1. Applicants who are relevant looked after children. [See footnote 1]
2. Those who live in the following postcode areas: [See footnote 2]
E2, E4, E5, E8, E9, E17
EN1, EN2, EN3, EN4, EN5 Sectors 1, 2, 4, 5, EN8 Sectors 7, 8, 9
N1, N2, N3, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8, N9, N10, N11, N12, N13, N14, N15, N16, N17, N18, N19, N20, N21, N22
3. A maximum of 20 students who show exceptional musical talent and achievement provided that, on the evidence shown by achievement in the entrance tests, they are also capable of maintaining the academic progress expected of the rest of the Latymer intake; evidence of exceptional musical talent on any instrument or instruments (including voice) is accepted. As a guideline a pupil should have achieved at least Grade 5 distinction level, but this will depend on instrument as well as previous opportunity and experience. Consideration will be given to candidates without that level of qualification but who otherwise show evidence of exceptional musical talent and achievement. Candidates may be asked to attend auditions
4. The 160 candidates who, on evidence of tests show the highest level of academic potential.
5. In either of the categories 3 and 4 above, where two or more candidates have the same total score the following order of priority will be applied.

1. Test score in first round test taken by the applicants
   
2. Test score in second round tests taken by the top 500 in first round test
   
   Footnote 1: "Relevant looked after child" means a child who is looked after by a local authority in accordance with section 22 of the Children Act 1989 at the time an application for his/her admission to the school is made, and who the local authority has confirmed will still be looked after at the time when he/she is admitted to the school."
   
   Footnote 2: The order of this list is alphabetical. There is no preference order within it.

[prh47bridge]

Admission criteria are technically always oversubscription criteria. Accepting that taking the test comes before looking at the oversubscription criteria, the wording still means that everyone in the postcode areas gets admitted before they start looking at the test results to determine who performed best. What they should be saying is that the test results and musical talent are the tie breakers.

I believe their admission criteria should be:

1. Looked after children who pass the test
2. Children living within the listed postcodes who pass the test
3. Any other children who pass the test

Within these categories the test results and musical talent are the tie breakers.

I am sure that is what they are actually doing but, on a strict interpretation, that isn't what their current admission criteria say.

However, all I'm really saying is that their criteria are badly written, not that this should result in lots of successful appeals.

[timeforaholiday]

Yes, I got a bit confused by the criteria, particularly as some of the music places go to people who passed the written tests, so wasn't quite sure how they finished up with the final numbers! I think you're right, we know what they mean but it could easily be misinterpreted. Oh well, am learning to love our third choice school! Still intrigued to know what would have been in a successful appeal.