Take-up of language A-levels at local comp

[PollyGlott]

Should I be worried? We have recently received the prospectus for our local comp in advance of our daughter's application process for 2009. It's all very glossy and impressive-looking, but closer inspection reveals that - out of a sixth form year group of over 100 students - not one of them studied French A-level! And only one did German. This suggests a number of things to me - either the problem of attracting suitably qualified teachers, or that languages are simply considered too difficult and students are being steered into "easier" subjects. Whatever the reason, it appears that a subject which has shaped my own life and career (I am a languages graduate and now work as a professional linguist) is very low down on the list of priorities for this particular school.

I find this situation quite disheartening. Admittedly, take-up of languages at GCSE was not too bad, but not as high as might be expected for a school with year-groups of 220.

So am I expecting too much?

[Anna8888]

I expect the school has appalling language departments. Why don't you ask to meet the head of the languages department and see what she/he is like?

[duckyfuzz]

as you know, languages at A level are extremely hard in relation to GCSE and to most other a levels - it may have just been a year group with no decent linguists and lots of medics, or may have something to do with the timetabling of the various options, it doesn't necessarily reflect badly on the school or the MFL department

[ecoworrier]

I don't think it's necessarily a problem, nor does it mean the language dept is appalling.

I am a languages graduate and linguist too, and I have to say the situation was the same in my day, and I'm talking over 20 years ago - only 3 of us did French at A level and only 2 of us took German.

Languages have always been perceived as difficult or just haven't appealed to as wide a grouping. So it's not always a case of students being steered towards easier subjects, just that languages are more of a minority interest.

By all means ask the school about their provision and support for languages. Also, you say take-up at GCSE isn't 'too bad', but does that mean it is optional? At my children's school it is still compulsory for all but the really unacademic children to take a foreign language up to GCSE, but unfortunately many schools dropped this requirement like a hot cake the minute the government allowed them too.

I think you'll find at A level there is a huge gap between the popular subjects and the less common ones - at my children's school some subjects are hugely popular, while others attract less than 5 students at A level. Interestingly though, the ones that do choose 'minority' subjects seem to always do very well, so I'm not sure it's a case of poor teaching.

[Nighbynight]

Languages are so ignored in the UK. I recently had an insight into a european office, which employs people from all over the EU. They all have to speak english, french and german.

There are apparently hardly any brits working there. That means, that in the policy area dealt with by this office, britain doesn't really have an input. That is very worrying.

[Nighbynight]

Languages are NOT difficult. In fact, they are so easy that I wouldnt encourage my children to take a language A level unless tehy wanted to become a translator or similar - they should study it in their spare time, and have courses in their chosen subject taught in another language. Just like the ones available in english in many german universities.

You see students on trains in germany, learning vocabulary lists, or reading a novel with a dictionary. You bet they are engineers or lawyers or something, not linguists.

[Lilymaid]

Agree that languages have always been perceived as difficult for A Level. I didn't take French A Level for the reason that I might have only got a C grade (back in the 70s when BBC at A Level would get you a place in any major university). It is much easier to get an A in Psychology, Sociology or even trad subjects such as Geography.

[Freckle]

Language provision in schools is a joke, quite honestly. The govt. bangs on about modern languages and insists that one be taught at primary level, but, at the same time, removes the requirement that a modern language is studied at GCSE level. How stupid is that?

[LadyOfWaffleIsScaryEnough]

I wouldn't always blame the school - we had the best Latin teacher but only 5 of us doing it for GCSE. Everyone opted for easier subjects. I think only 1 or 2 did it at A -level (I would have but I left to go to College). The introduction of things lke sociology/psychology etc. at A level means people are tending to get through with as little work as possible.

[LadyOfWaffleIsScaryEnough]

You don't have to do a foreign language for GCSE anymore?? That is a joke! Even though I took Latin I had to still do French and I am grateful for it!

[findtheriver]

You need to investigate further. To assume that the languages dept must be 'appalling' as one post says is pig ignorant. It might be a damn good dept with excellent teachers. There may be all sorts of reasons why students have chosen other subjects.

Also, remember A levels are actually in two parts - AS and A2 - so do you mean that no one opts for it at all, or that people study it for first year 6th but then drop it? Nothing wrong with that - it's how the A level course is designed. If students are taking it as a fourth option, getting good grades at AS but then dropping it as they move on to A2 with their 3 other options, then that seems entirely normal.

[Freckle]

DS1 attends a grammar school (so you would think they might be a little more stringent about GCSE options) and his compulsory subjects are Eng. Lit. and Eng. Lang., maths and the 3 sciences (done as separate subjects, not as a single subject). No languages at all (other than English obv.). DS1 is doing French GCSE but as one of his chosen options, not because it is compulsory.

I started out as a linguist, doing French, German and Latin A levels, so I find this situation quite disappointing to say the least.

[larry5]

At my dd's school the bright pupils in her year took GCSE in the language they had been learning at the end of year 9 so that they could prove that they had studied the subject even if they only got a D or below as, at the time, they didn't need to study a language after 14. This means that by the time they get to AS level they don't choose to study languages as it is two years since they last studied the subject.

Dd arrived at the school in Yr 10 and studied French as one of her options and is now doing AS level in a class of 3.

Her school is now a language specialist school so all the children will do GCSE French or German in Yr11 in the hope that more will continue to study to A level.

[ecoworrier]

findtheriver makes a good point - AS results aren't usually published so you don't necessarily know if any pupils have taken it that far. Certainly most people I know going into sixth form have 2-3 'definites' and 1-2 'maybes' on their A level list. After the first year, some choose to drop the one they enjoy least or are least good at or possibly the one that just hasn't been the course they thought it would be. Doesn't mean they haven't benefitted from that year.

[roisin]

At my school we have some superb MFL teachers: some of the best, most dynamic teaching in the school. But SMT do not see MFL as a priority and consistently under-resource them, create timetable problems, etc. For instance a yr7 class has 1 lesson on Monday, 2 on Tuesday, then none for the rest of the week: not a great way to learn a new language! Also all students have to do a Technology subject but no-one has to do MFL, even top set students.

Numbers choosing MFL as an option at yr9 (i.e. to study for GCSE) have varied over recent years from 6-13%
That's from a year group of around 200.

[PollyGlott]

Thanks for comments and feedback so far. To answer a few points - the school in question is a specialist technology college so all students have to take a technology GCSE whether they want to or not. MFLs were dropped like hot potatoes as soon as they were no longer compulsory, it would appear. What's more, anyone wishing to study a second MFL after year 7 has to stay behind after school as this counts as an "enrichment" activity.

Regarding AS levels, there were no French entries last year but a few for German - about three, all with quite low grades. I know of one student a few years ago who wanted to take French A-level but was told he would have to go to another school to do it as they would not run a course for just one or two pupils.

I have to say, though - when I was at school and studying English, French and German A-levels - I certainly did not consider myself to be one of the "bright" ones"! I came out with a (for those days) respectable BBD, managed to get a good degree in MFL (despite the D for German! ) and have made my living from languages ever since. Now, though, it seems you have to be bordering on genius to even consider these subjects!

My eldest daughter attends a state grammar where all students are obliged to study at least one foreign language at GCSE. The school also offers optional lunchtime classes in Mandarin and Chinese and has just started an after-school Latin club, with the intention of re-introducing it into the school's main curriculum if there is enough interest.

The contrast - in this field, at least - could not be greater!

[PollyGlott]

OK - so having attended the open evening and investigated, it would appear that the languages department is extremely good but fighting an uphill battle, and - justifiably IOM - suffering from something of a Cinderella complex. Apparently, even having four students wanting to study a language A-level is not enough to warrant funding! Such students are advised to apply to other schools, many of which have the same attitude to the subject (even so-called "specialist language colleges")!

Apart from running the subject down and reducing opportunities for the students, this must impact upon staff morale. Look at it from the teacher's point of view - you've trained to teach a subject across the entire secondary age range, but are denied the extra dimension and intellectual stretch of sixth-form classes.

Any MFL teachers agree?

[scaryteacher]

Nighbynight - I presume it wasn't actually an EU office, as you only have to be fluent in one, and competent in another language. In much of the European Council for instance the language used on a daily basis is English and there are 28 member states involved.

[Milliways]

My DD is applying for Language courses at Uni at the moment. There are only 3 in her A level French Group and about the same for German. (More did German AS but have dropped it this year.)

It is a shame - bu she enjoys the small classes. Complete change from the usual overcrowding and lots of conversation time so skills improve quickly.

If you look at A level figures, not many are taking languages anywhere.

[asdmumandteacher]

Agree with Freckle to a certain extent - i teach in a selective girls school and the languages dept are fab but the kids hardly do them at A Level because the kids are worried they are too hard and won't get A's in them so choose the 'lighter' subjects instead (we have the same problem in my subject, music too) I too am a linguist so it really saddens me

[GrimmaTheNome]

Is there a 6th form college in your area which maybe does do languages?

[asdmumandteacher]

It is demoralising when you build up a great number at GCSE to have that number so rapidly dwindled at A level due to pressures on the kids to get A grades...when i look at the year 13 predicated grades most of them are getting 3 or 4 A grades and most of them are doing the 'lighter' subjects....i am sure when i was at school if you got 4 A grades you were not the norm

[asdmumandteacher]

Agree Lilymaid

[brimfull]

at dd's state comp ,admittedly a specialist language school,there are 3 classes of french A level students.
French is the most popular A level.DD says it's becasue the teachers are so fantastic.
They all have to take french gcse and top sets have to take spanish gcse as well.

They also teach spanish,german,mandarin and latin.

[asdmumandteacher]

Wow! 3 sets of French A Level - thats fab!! I think at our school (selective girls) out of 200 year 12's there are about 20 collectively doing the three most popular languages.

[chocolateshoes]

Languages certainly have the reputation of being a difficult subject at 16+. And I do agree. The range of skills needed are very wide with students having to give and justify opinions on many topical subjects in French whilst many would struggle to express an opinion in English.