Having a wobble re preparation for super selective exam

[tittifilarious]

My 10 yo son has asked to sit the exam for the super selective near us in September. It's the only one in they county and usually has about 1,000 kids sitting the exam for just over 100 places. It's not a grammar area so it's either that school or comprehensives or religious schools. Not sure how far we match the criteria for the church schools and we're quite far away from the comps so in a high birth rate year this may be a problem if they go solely on distance. Risks for whatever option we choose.

Anyway, as son asked to sit the exam for the super selective, we said he could and we'd support him. I spoke to other people and it seems that many parents have been preparing their children for up to two years, practising exam technique etc. With this in mind, we decided to pay out for a tutor 1hr per week from June, despite him being quite bright and pretty much at the top of his class in school.

I'm aware that we're playing catch up to many people. He's good at the non verbal reasoning and maths. His written work is good, but untidy and I think an examiner will struggle to read his answers.

His tutor has said he should now be doing as homework around 3 papers for each Bond book (maths, verbal reasoning, non verbal reasoning and English) per week, plus practicing his handwriting with a piece of writing around a subject set by her. This seems like a lot to me. Is it? Despite me saying a while back that it was all completely up to him, and him saying he knew it was a lot of work, I'm now having to nag him to do the work.

I think the most valuable thing he is getting from the tutor is practicing his handwriting and learning to work to exam timescales. I think it is worth him continuing to go for those reasons. But 12 papers per week plus writing for homework seems a lot. The papers he does at home vary between 95% and 80% generally with the odd few (rushed!) being below. Do those marks indicate he has a "good" chance of getting into a super selective based on the numbers of applicants above? His tutor says he is doing well and does well on the exemplar materials from the super selective. I did ask her to tell me if she thought he may be "square peg, round hole"

In the interests of full disclosure, son had an illness earlier in the year which he has almost entirely recovered from but one of the effects was "fatigue". I'm fairly certain it wouldn't qualify him for SEN or anything, but I'm also conscious of putting a lot of work on him.

I don't know, I'm just having a wobble. I don't want to be making him do all of this work unnecessarily. I'm also worrying whether this volume of work represents the homework he'd be set by the super selective? On the other hand, we're only talking another 4 weeks. Just get on with it?

This is all new to us. DH and I just went to big standard comprehensives.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[SWStressed]

Have you tried posting on the forums on elevenplusexams site? You will probably get some good advice from people who know the school and the marks required

[tittifilarious]

Ah, good tip - thank you.

[antimatter]

Just get on with it.
You haven't got much time left anyway.

IMHO this isn't unnecessary work, it pays in long term and teaches them new skills.
(both my kids are in super selective grammars)

[tittifilarious]

Thanks anti

[Ladymuck]

If it is a case where the top 100 scores get a place, then it is essentially a straight competition for the top marks. IME most of the other children who want a place will be working at this level or more at this stage. As Anti said, the skills he is practising now will stand him in good stead for the rest of year 6, and beyond.

There is a real irony when you read through threads around Easter time and see the amount of SATS related homework that many year 6 homework are set by primary schools over the Easter holidays, and yet for these 11+ exams, which arguably have a greater impact on their future options, state schools don't set anything.

[antimatter]

I couldn't agree more Ladymuck

[alwaysdoinglaundry]

Your tutor will know the score, listen to them. Obviously if you feel that it will damage your son long term then don't do it, but there is very little point sitting these assessments in a half hearted way.

[teacherwith2kids]

"and yet for these 11+ exams, which arguably have a greater impact on their future options, state schools don't set anything."

State schools are not ALLOWED to provide any coaching or help at all for 11+ exams, at least in our 'partically selective' area - I don't know about Kent or other fully selective areas. but certainly it isn't allowed here. Many years ago, my DC's primary used to do lunchtime / after school familiarisaton sessions at no charge for pupils, because they felt it mitigated against the type of 'access via money for coaching' that makes grammar entry so unjust. They haven't been allowed to offer those sessions for years.

[teacherwith2kids]

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/policies_and_guidance_to_kcc_sch is an interesting read, which indicates that even in Kent, fully selective, no teaching related to the 11+ in state schools is allowed exceopt for a single familiarisation test, and deliberate breach of this is a disciplinary matter.

[Hakluyt]

Certainly in a Kent primqry schools are not allowed to do any 11+preparation apart from a familiarisation paper. It is known that some do- and any spare places in those schools are fiercely fought over in year 5!

[tittifilarious]

Thank you all.

Yes I agree, we said he could try for the exam and don't see the point of doing it half heartedly. That said, DH is now at the point of "oh this is too much, call it a day and just let him sit the exam" whereas I think well we've come this far, this is something he really wants to do and it's only for another few miserable weeks "

I think I needed a bit of reassurance that this is in fact normal and will do him some good even if he doesn't get a place, so thank you again.

[Ladymuck]

If you are in a "top 120 scores" only zone, which it sounds as if you are, then it is certainly becoming the norm amongst those who are successful. Everyone is trying to get those extra 5-10 points which comes through being confident with timing, and having tried all types of papers. If you are in a place where you just need to pass a qualifying mark, and then spaces are allocated on distance, then you can be less intense if your Dc usually scores well.

[antimatter]

IMHO if it is sitting superselective he should be scoring over 90 now
consistency is the key so perhaps look at his technique and improve that as it's not that difficult to improve on it if you know what you are looking for

[tittifilarious]

Yes it is top 120.

I'm looking out for patterns. He has a tendency to miss questions out - although this is becoming less frequent. I've also marked any wrong where his handwriting makes the answer hard to read. He's generally ok at the non verbal reasoning except for questions where they have a pictures of unfolded curves with patterns on and then ask which cubes could/couldn't be made from the unfolded one. He gets them wrong virtually every time (and I get the NVR papers - I like them in a puzzle book kind of way, but those cube ones stump me too!).

Thanks for all of your answers by the way. I definitely think it is important to know he has given it his best shot.

[Teddingtonmum1]

This time last year I had to literally tie my DS to the table in the end I matched whatever time he done on a test he had the same in ps3 / tv time etc it seemed to work in the last few weeks before the exam we were doing at least 90 mins day. So glad that's over and he passed so it worked I guess was totally exhausted myself !! there is an I pad 11 plus app we used that u can set the time per question that helped get his speed up . First past the post its called 69p well spent

[tittifilarious]

Thank you teddington - I'm not above bribery

I'll look for that app.

[antimatter]

If he misses questions maybe he should put a tick next to those he did and in the last 10 min check that each question has a tick?

[Tittifilarious]

Thank you all for your advice.

Unfortunately the "wobble" has worsened. DS realised he hadn't done a piece of homework for school this morning. It's a really easy list thing that would've taken 5 minutes to do tonight and it doesn't have to be in until tomorrow anyway. He had a totally disproportionate reaction and when I asked him what as really bothering him, he started crying saying he was under too much "stress". I comforted him and said we'd sort something out tonight when we had a chance to talk it through properly.

Anyway, after doing the 5 min of school stuff tonight, I asked him to do the written work from his tutor and one of the practice papers so about an hour's work - his face fell. Then he started being deliberately obstructive saying he couldn't do the writing as he'd never experienced the topic when it was clear it as supposed to be an imaginary piece. Then lots of huffing and puffing and teary eyes. So I said "look, it's an hour of work the you've got the rest of the evening free - that's not too much to do is it?" Again, face fell. So I said "well if you weren't doing this, what would you be doing instead?" Nothing apparently.

I explained to him we're only talking another 4 weeks but he said that was ages. I also said would he want to feel the work he'd done since June was wasted? Then I'm afraid I lost my temper a bit . I said to him that the idea of doing the exam for a super selective came from him, but his dad and I had wanted to support him and that it had cost us time, money and effort to support him but if he didn't want to put in the work, that was fine because I could spend the remaining £150 tuition costs on myself actually I don think I could as I think the tutor would still expect to be paid I said he was fooling himself if he thought he would get into the school by having a go against 1000 kids equally as bright but better prepared so he better adjust himself to the idea he won't be going. So yes, I didn't handle it well.

this is new territory for me. The idea of the super selective came from him. He's a clever boy - at the top of the class in one of the best primary schools in the city. He works hard, he's conscientious. But I can't physically make him do his preparation. And I don't think I should have to - if he wanted to attend this school enough he'd do the preparation wouldn't he? Or am I putting too much expectation on a 10 year old? I just don't know how to handle this. It is much more for him that I want to do the right thing - I don't want him to look back and realise he had a really good opportunity and wasted it (the rest of the schools is this county are ok, but nothing more), especially as the whole idea come from him. But really, is there any point me forcing this now? I think he's already put weeks of work in that I owe it to him to push him to continue but on the other hand, would he struggle with the demands of a super selective anyway even if he were to get in?

It'd be really helpful to hear from anyone else who has faced this dilemma.

Thanks again.

[Didadida]

Poor bloody child and ridiculous tutor.

I've tutored my dc for the 11+ and NO WAY would I suggest any child did 12 papers a week - that is massive overkill for a ten year old and of course your ds has gone off the idea and is stressed. And you are absolutely wrong - sorry, but it's true - to tell him he doesn't stand a chance without masses of work and that he 'owes' you for the money you've spent - what a stressful thing to say to a child!

The reality is that if he's scoring 95% in papers he could pass. What matters is not how many zillions of papers you do, which doesn't teach you anything, but what you learn from them. If his tutor is halfway decent - which I doubt - they will be going through the (few) papers he does with a fine toothcomb to identify what mistakes he is making and why, and then explaining his errors to him. There is no way a tutor would have time to do this with 12 papers a week so it is completely pointless - he will just go on repeating the same errors, whilst getting more and more stressed and tired.

Let the poor boy have the night off, apologise to him! and remember he's the one who has to do the work and the exam, not you, so the motivation HAS to come from him. If he doesn't enjoy it or views the school/exam negatively, he won't achieve highly and you'll risk ruining your relationship with him too.

I'd sack the tutor. Put the ball in your ds's hands - tell him how proud you are of all the work he's done and how much he's learnt, and ask him if he wants to continue ie give it a go. If he fails, it's important he doesn't feel it's the end of the world or he's let you down/wasted your money.

Try to repair your relationship by giving him time off and if he does want to go ahead, make it fun - creative writing should be joyous not a chore. Play word/maths games. Get him to read great, inspiring books.

No more than 1 paper a night - probably half that would do.

Bloody hell there are some awful tutors out there.

[Tittifilarious]

Yes, I know, I ballsed up big time. I handled it completely wrongly. I think you're right in that he's becoming more tired and stressed. FWIW, I've already reduced the papers right down to 2 maths, 1 English, 1 piece of writing, 1 verbal reasoning and 1 NVR (so 4 5 plus a piece of writing) per week, which I don't think is too onerous - but is it? What worries me is that this is no worse than the volume of homework the school would set so is he really cut out for it?

We've had another chat. He wants to do the exam. He doesn't want to do the practice papers. At all. I think he's just sick of it all now. I don't want him to regret quitting now, but I also don't want to regret pushing him too hard (and I've never ever pushed him on anything before).

We've said we'll take it on a week by week basis - if he wants to stop the tuition/practice then he can but it is up to him and I'm not going to push him.

I just wish we'd never listened to the whole tuition thing and done our own thing with him.

[Tittifilarious]

Having said that, in the tutor's defence, she has improved his handwriting which was a major concern as it was barely legible.

[antimatter]

Homework in y7 us going to happen when he is year older. They mature quickly and aren't bombarded with any in the first 2 weeks. He'll be fine.

Best to apologise and give him a big hug Let him have an early night and do dome work tomorrow.

[Tittifilarious]

Thanks anti

[RaisinBoys]

You keep saying that the whole idea came from him, as though he has to bear the responsibility for it. It may have been his idea....but he's 10 years old. He doesn't need to know how much you've spent on the tutor or what sacrifices you've made, he doesn't need to be guilt-tripped and he doesn't need to carry all the burden of your expectation and hope on his 10 year old shoulders.

He needs to know that all you expect of him is to do his best.

He needs a rest. Apologise, give him a few nights off, bin the tutor. Then do a couple of papers over a few days (if you must) to see if there are areas of weakness and that is it.

Doing a paper every night is clearly counterproductive in your DS's case.

Good luck!

[Georgethesecond]

Mine are both in grammars.

I think if he won't do any more past papers he doesn't sit the exam. We always worked on one of each a week. It did the trick.