would this put you off a school?

[sparklingstars]

The school has had two satisfactory reports from OFSTED, if they get a third then they will be in 'special measures' as far as I know. They are about to get a new head master who hopefully will turn things around, they start next month.

Unfortunately we have to choose a school for our youngest when the new head master has only been there about 8 weeks so we won't have had time to get an idea of whether he has been able to make changes successfully. Our oldest went to the school and did well but that was four years ago now and it's gone downhill since then from what I've heard.

The alternative is a different school but one that is further away and would be more awkward to get to. We don't know anybody who is going to go to the alternative school, the great majority will go to the school that we're not so keen on.

[teacherwith2kids]

Where has the head come from? What is their track record? E.g have they come from a school that has improved over recent years - whether they were a head there or a deputy, that kind of track record might give you confidence. Do you have a chance to visit both schools before you make a choice? Schools are often very different 'in person' from 'on paper'.

Also look very closely at the DfE data on the school. Look particularly at the achievement of children of different abilities. For example, our local comp does brilliantly for medium and high achievers - and thus has impressive 'headline' GCSE results - but i would not touch it with a bargepole for a child of low ability or with SEN as the results for those children are woeful. A different school might have very few higher ability children (making their headline results look less good) but the progress made by children of all abilities may be fabulous (it is possible, for example, to be below the Government's GCSE 'floor' level for GCSEs but for almost all your pupils to be making much greater than expected progress - it all depends on starting point).

[sparklingstars]

Thank you.

I googled the new head teacher, they were one of two head teachers at a high school that was ranked as good for several years, they then converted to an academy and stayed as good for the last couple of inspections, so no real improvements but not dropping either.

Looking at the figures for the school we like the look of least, they have gone 65%, 61%, 77%, 73% for the whole school, when I looked at high achievers and children on free school meals there was a difference of 54% which strikes me as massive difference, it was 23% when comparing high achievers with everybody else. About 10% of the children were on free school meals. This school has a fairly mixed catchment, some very wealthy areas and an average area.

For the other school, 68%, 63%, 80%, 78% for the whole school, there was difference of 64% between high achievers and children on free school meals - even more and 28% difference between children on free school meals and everybody else. About 20% of the children were on free school meals. This school have better figures for the high achievers but worse for the low achievers. The catchment area for this school is an average area and a very poor area.

We looked at both schools, we didn't like the look of the first one at all and loved the look of the second one, plus our DC wants to go to the second one.

[teacherwith2kids]

In your shoes, I would put the second one as first choice (Do you have any chance at all of getting in, by the way? Round here there is only 1 realistic choice for anyone on distance grounds, as if you are likely to get into school A you are by definition too far away to get into school B)

Then the first as your insurance choice, because I presume that you are close enough to get a place there whatever happens.

[sparklingstars]

Yes, we've got a chance of getting in - because of where we live in a semi-rural area and where our house is we're actually in catchment for both schools. There are mainly houses between us and school 1 and mainly fields between us and school 2.
Thanks. It all seemed to point in the direction of school 2 but I wasn't sure if I was being rash in discounting school 1.

[lljkk]

Does 3xSatisfactory/Req Improvement = automatically in special measures? Is that a new thing?

School across town is in SM and I wouldn't hesitate to send DC there (knowing all the background). Just not as convenient as current school.

[teacherwith2kids]

Lijkk (and OP)

I think, tbh, the Ofsted grading of the two is fairly irrelevant. There are Outstanding schools that I wouldn't send any child to, and Special Measures schools I would give my right arm to live near enough to use - but also vice versa.

The OP is being very fair in realising that she MIGHT be turning down 'the next Great Thing' with an incoming head who may change things for the better, and also that she will be separating her DC from their current friends (but then DS only retained one of his primary friends throughout Year 7, and has made a whole load of new ones instead).

If she was saying 'well, I didn't like the other school much, but it does have better results', that would be different. What matters is that both she and her DC prefer the further away school having visited and compared both.

[sparklingstars]

Thanks teacher. Out of interest, what would you look for in a school?

I'm trying to keep an open mind about the first school, as you say it might be the 'next Great Thing' and part of me says it can sometimes be the best thing that happens to a school but the other part of me wonders how much the improvement is actually down to manipulating data or having lots of extra attention which will only sustain improvement as long as they get it.

[NoComet]

Whether, SM should bother you depends on whether you agree with Ofsted that the school has got worse.

DDs school has gone from good to SM and the only thing that has changed is the results have got better.

In my option Ofsted are a bunch of back watching, job preserving, sharks.

However, SM is a soul destroying, moral ruining, good and bad teacher losing, money wasting exercise. At the end of it we will have lost a nice head, some good governors, still have certain useless dept heads/mid management/SLT and have destroyed the nice feel of the school.

If we are unlucky we will destroy a good sixform too as pupils go else where. The main school numbers are down too, which effects money very badly.

Knowing what I know now, I would have sent DD2 somewhere else, but all this rubbish blew up 1/2 way through Y7 and like your elder DD, DD1 has always done OK and been very well looked after. (This was vital to DD1 succeeding. Social adept, non dyslexic DD2 is quite different).

So I think I'd play safe and put non SM school as first choice.

[sparklingstars]

Thanks. I don't know if school 1 has got worse, I know of children who are doing well there but I also know of parents who wish they had never sent their children there.
I was talking to somebody at school 2 the other day and we should have no problem getting a place so we're going for that.
We agree re OFSTED...I suspect many people do.

[NoComet]

Sorry, very cynical about Ofsted, DDs primary was down graded on DD1s years SATs and upgraded on DD2's.

It's a small rural school and these results were far more down to the particular cohorts of pupils, than the school. They'd had pretty much the same teachers and school experience, but more of DD2's year came from confident, pushy, academic households.

It's a total farce. Ofsted revel in change it makes them look like they are needed.

[Ett36]

teacherwith2kids I agree with what she has said. I'm a secondary teacher 13yrs. worked in SM schools and good with outstanding. what's your gut feeling going round schools? I sent my DDs to school with sat Ofsted not the one considered good as I didn't like it but loved one they go too. yes look at Ofsted reports but don't let that be your deciding points. staff turnover is another thing to look at. if lots leaving I'd ask why?

[lotsofdirections]

Wouldn't worry about Ofsted rankings too much, my DD2's school is in Special Measures and this year has 3 going to Oxbridge, 4 to read Medicine, 2 Vet Science and 64% Russell Group. The local Indie has no Oxbridge and 2 on 'wait list' for Medicine. The SM is deserved because they were failing the C/D borderline but it doesn't show the whole picture because able and SEN children flourish. Schools are essentially judged on the C/D borderline but this is not the whole story.

[teacherandguideleader]

Don't go too much on what OFSTED say. I got downgraded in a lesson once for giving too much support to students - bizarrely, when they handed their homework in the next week the kids said they didn't struggle with the homework because I'd explained it so well!

Go on your gut feeling. I used to work in an outstanding school - I would never send a child of mine there.