London Independent school for children raised in France

[SandyinParis]

Hello, We're thinking of relocating to London in time for Sept 2014. Help seriously needed to find good schools for daughter 11+ and son 13+.
I went to NHEHS years ago but don't remember all the pressure of the entrance exam, interviews, etc. It all seems to competitive nowadays. My kids are in French schools but are bilingual (school has an international section) so they read, write and speak English. Am thinking about schools in North london consortium for daughter, not sure about son, a good co-ed would be ideal. But not having been in the country for all these years am no longer in touch with the pressures of the senior school entrance exams, etc. Anyone offer any advice? Also do these schools have an intake of "foreign" children, (mine are franco-british-american, don't want them to feel "left-out", if you see what I mean.
any help would be much appreciated!

[Mominatrix]

Hello SandyinParis. Switching into the London private school network has indeed become extremely competitive, and seemingly increasing in competitiveness every year!

Your daughter is in a less tricky situation than your son as she is in-step with the normal timeline for transfer to senior school. I have one son in a French school which is also bilingual and can speak to the levels children tend to be at compared to their English system educated counterparts when leaving at 11. Generally, 90% of children go on to the Lycée or the Kentish Town College. A very, very small number transfer to the English system at 11+ - invariably girls. The transfer is do-able, however the girls are tutored for 2 years prior to fill in the gaps in learning. I am not saying that the French system results in children being academically behind - just that the teaching emphasis of the two systems is different. For example, in Maths there is a higher emphasis on word problems in the English system than the French. You will also need to work with your daughter on verbal and non-verbal reasoning to familiarise her with the types of questions and improve speed. With a bit of extra work, your daughter should be fine to find a school within the consortium.

Your son is a trickier case as Latymer Upper's (co-ed) principal intake is at 11+, and the big central London schools pre-test at 11. There are still quite a few schools which will accept at 13+. He will have to prepare for CE, and you need to contact the individual schools to see what the pass rates are. Sorry I cannot help you more as I am unfamiliar with this stage of school intake.

There are no specific foreign student quotas. Actually, it would be a strange thing to have here in London where the intakes are very cosmopolitan and international due to the population of London.

Are you not interested in continuing at the Lycee or the Kentish town college (bilingual)?

[BagLady75]

Hi Sandy,

I wouldn't worry about your children feeling "left out" - London private schools are incredibly international and cosmopolitan. In my DD's class at SHHS practically no one is plain vanilla British - glancing down the list perhaps up to 50% are bilingual and/or have a foreign parent, and quite a few were born and/or lived abroad.

On the other hand, I'm not sure the top private schools will cut you much slack for coming from another educational system. Fortunately I think you still have enough time to line up some tutors or at least get organized to help them with practice tests yourself.

As the PP said 13+ is probably trickier than 11+ and a lot of boys' secondaries pre-test for 13+ quite early eg year 6 or 7, meaning that you are already too late. In terms of North London boys schools that do not test until year 8 and would therefore still potentially work for you, consider Habs, Mill Hill, Merchant Taylor.

You could also go "international" and check out schools like the American School of London (which is truly excellent) and Southbank International School, as well as the French options mentioned by PP.

HTH

[SandyinParis]

Hi, I am interested in the bilingual option but would really like more emphasis on the English. One of the reasons of moving to London is the truly excellent education system (sports, music, drama) Not sure you get that package in a French school in London, but I may be wrong.

Now I'm seriously worried about my son. Had no idea schools started testing at year or 7 level for 13+.

Interestingly enough I have thought about the Southbank Intl School BagLady75, do you know more about it? And what are people saying about the Kentish town bilingual school?
thanks.

[SandyinParis]

Hi Mominatrix, Thanks for your advice. Am just worried about the "with a bit of extra work your daughter should be fine to find a place in the consortium". Umm...have looked at the past papers, as you say a very different approach to maths than in the French system. As for the English paper, it's above her level but she is a hard worker and we could help her to prepare by focusing on reading comprehensions at home, etc.
My main concern is the school reports. The French systems is so different. The school report is basically just a list of marks per subject and the global appreciation is never more than 3 or 4 sentences. "Serious and friendly pupil, Has made progress this year..." That's pretty much it. They have this obsession with average scores per child like the GPA system in the US. Both my children are around the class general average (for all subjects). Hard to tell how that would translate into the British system and how schools would evaluate their reports. Have started a thread about international schools in london as that is a serious option too.

[Elibean]

I agree with previous posters, I doubt your kids will feel 'left out' - London schools are quite international, on the whole!

My brother's kids have gone through French primaries in London, so not quite the same scenario - and are in SW London rather than North, but: they found the switch from French system to English quite hard, vis a vis the entrance exams and, more to the point, interviews. My niece is going to Putney High, and had a couple of other offers, but the difference in systems really came up during interviews at SPG....the tests weren't the problem so much, as she had tutoring in verbal and non-verbal reasoning beforehand.

I would talk to individual schools you are interested in, and sound them out? You are right about the 'whole package' being stronger in English system - the reason my nephews and nieces are switching to English schools for secondary (they have automatic places at the Lycee from their primary) is exactly that. They are keen on drama, art, sport.

[BagLady75]

Southbank has a good reputation. I used to know a few families there but they have all moved on. The school was bought by Cognita a few years back and went from having very small classes to more normal sized classes. I know at the time there was a lot of unhappiness about the change but presumably it has all settled down now. They get good IB results.

The CFBL in Kentish Town is only in its second year but getting good reviews. I know it is very oversubscribed in the early years - several French families I know applied but did not get places for their reception aged children - but this may not be the case for higher years.

You could also consider some slightly less competitive independents like North Bridge House Senior? And agreed with previous poster it is always worth having a chat with any particular school you are interested in.

[Copthallresident]

Hi

Sandy, we came back to the UK for my DD to start school at 11. She tried for the North London Consortium (Godolphin & Latymer) and got in, along with three other very selective West London schools. She was at a British system International School but one that did nothing to prepare them for entrance exams, so we still had to prepare, using the entrance exam papers and details of syllabuses so we knew what to cover that she would not have covered at school. Godolphin certainly made a point of telling her they valued her overseas experience as did two other schools, but not SPGS who she found generally cold and disinterested in the interview. At the school she ended up at they told me after that they had a mark in the English and Maths exams below which they feel a pupil will not keep up but that is set so that state school pupils and those from overseas have a fair chance, and they then use Year 7 to consolidate. After that the decision on whether to offer a place rests on looking at them as individuals based on their marks in the exams, including also verbal reasoning and general knowledge and their personality, ability and talents as manifested in interview and school reference. The Head said to me that the interview tells them a lot and DD was asked a lot in that interview about her experiences overseas including if she thought America was right to try to exert pressure on North Korea to get rid of it's nuclear weapons!! The Head also told me that she thought living overseas was a brilliant stimulating experience for children and they really valued the contribution they make to the school community as a result of their experiences.... As I recall in her Godolphin interview they showed them some postcards of a tropical beach and snowy mountainside and asked them to comment on whatever came to mind and she used it to comment on some of her travels.

The Common Entrance at 13 for the competitive boys schools is pretty scary if they are not at a school that prepares them, a wide multi subject syllabus, all pretty much GCSE, if not AS level. I wonder if you should go down the route of talking to some of the schools like Latymer that have a wider entry, with a more mixed intake at 11, who might be prepared to let him sit the sort of exam they would set for a girl joining on an ad hoc basis. One of my DD's friends switched to Latymer mid Year 9 and had only to sit tests in Maths and English.

[SandyinParis]

Thanks Copthallresident - congratulations on getting through the hurdle from overseas. Now that I know how competitive all this is going to be I am quite stressed out. I don't remember preparing for any of the entrance exams myself but then that was i the late 70s....Also, how long before the entrance exam did you and your DD prepare? Other than using past papers what other resources did you use? The difference between my case and yours is that my kids are primarily educated in French. They are in an international school that provides 6 hours of English (literacy, History/Geography) and get plenty of English at home, but that's it. No maths, no science, etc. Am I setting my sights too high???
As for my son who would be going into Y9 in 2014 I had no idea not having brothers myself and having gone to an all girls school just how tough the system was. Latymer is a good idea, thanks. I will do more research and yes, make those calls. ;)

[Copthallresident]

Sandy I worked my way through an 11+ syllabus Maths book with her from the summer after Year 5, Maths is her thing and the answers black and white so there were less likely to be "Mum You are wrong " arguments. We also did lots of logic puzzles. If you look at the North London Consortium exams then you will see that a lot of the word problems are actually more logic than maths, or applying familiar concepts in unfamiliar ways, so more tests of logic and lateral thinking than Maths. I remember on the example paper the year she sat it the final question had three of us Mums all with MBAs challenged for a couple of days working it out, it was a good brain workout!! She went once a week in the Autumn term to an old teacher she had where they had a cosy session on the sofa with biscuits who helped her with working under timed conditions and literacy skills.

I think a key issue is your child's potential and thinking skills rather than attainment, they do try to set tests that limit the value of tutoring and cramming. To give you an idea LEH do say that they like to see Verbal Reasoning above the 95th percentile (not 95%, VR is marked according to where the score sits in relation to the rest of the school population, so that would mean that they need to have a score that was above that achieved by 95% of the population). My DD is actually able to score a bit better than that. LEH is regarded as below SPGS in terms of selectivity (rather than actually being a good school, that's a different issue!) along with North London Collegiate. Godolphin is more or less there whilst the Highs, Putney and Ealing are a bit less selective, Surbiton a bit less than those (and a very happy choice for returning expats, more prepared to entertain mid year entry etc. ) Latymer used to be around the level of the Highs but in the last five years has been on a stella trajectory and last year just beat LEH on GCSE results. I understand the Head thinks they are becoming as selective as SPGS. I am sorry I don't know the North London Schools that well but these are all good schools, it's just around here the minutest variation in results translates into parental demand. All of these schools enable clever children to do well.

I don't know any pupils personally who transferred from the French system but I would be very surprised if these schools don't have experience so I would ask them

[Needmoresleep]

Hi,

Everyone gets scared but somehow things almost always work out.

Get:

1. A copy of the Good Schools Guide or subscribe on-line. Try your best to understand what they are trying to say between the lines and if not ask for views here.
   
2. Get familiar with TfLs journey planner. It is not the distance from the school but the journey time that matters. Stick in the postcodes of your favourite schools and also look at journey frequency, reliability and safety. 40 minutes each way is probably the outside limit though some do more.
   
3. Then email registrars especially for a 13+ boy. You may not get a reply until the end of the summer holiday now, however you should be able to tell a lot from how keen they sound in the first instance.
   
4. Consider buying Galore Park's "So You Really Want to Learn Maths" and the English equivalent. These are textbooks often used by independent schools but are also designed for home tuition, eg to prepare for Common Entrance. Getting the right level books will help with catch up. Preparing for the exams themselves will be a different matter. The 11+ exams website will have lots of advice.
   

Note there are two Latymer's I assume people are referring to Latymer Upper in Hammersmith which is the indie one.

DD knows a number of kids in several West London schools. The Lycee probably has the lowest satisfaction rate as it is seen as rigid, having strange scheduling and pretty awful at encouraging extra-curricular. However it is much cheaper and gets good results. Plus there is not the same issue with selection at 11+ or 13+. I suspect despite the known faults, most if not all the parents would make the same choice again.

The main American International School is oversubscribed and can be quite hard to get into. I understand that if you get offered a place you need to snap it up. I also hear that the population can be quite transient, and if you are settling here they may be advantage in joining a settled school population. There is also anecdotal evidence that some popular Universities can be quite "conservative" about the grades they require from home students with non-British qualifications.

I agree with others. London is astonishingly cosmopolitan. Over 10% of DDs year group are English French bilingual. And many others have other languages. There could well be an issue of how the school deals with French lessons but that is minor.

Good luck.

[Copthallresident]

I would be a little dealing with registers, some can be gatekeepers acting on their own shaky ground, and Heads might have a more constructive response. The Registrar at Godolphin clearly thought anyone educated outside GB was a chancer without a hope of a place and kept on about how competitive entry was to the point DD found it quite offensive. She also came out with some howlers in terms of stereotypically wrong assumptions about the culture we were living in eg Do they play tennis in Asia? Her attitude changed completely when they received her completed exam paper (DD sat them all overseas) and was inviting us for interview. If you are getting a stonewall it is worth emailing the Head.

[SandyinParis]

Hi
Much appreciated advice from you all, still scared stiff by the whole process. Will purchase the good schools guide and start reading (betw those lines, needmoresleep ;).
Unfortunately Copthallresident, my DD is not into maths. It scares her and she quickly loses confidence if she doesn't understand, like her mum really ;)
I will however get the books mentioned in yours and other posts and get to work asap. :(

[Needmoresleep]

I was thinking more of the 13+ place. There is always some movement to boarding at that stage as well as relocations etc. If registrars have spaces to fill they will presumably be more positive, than if they know they are already pretty choka.

11+ is more of a cattle market. Lots sit the exam. The school then decides whether they want you or not.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Have a look here too at the syllabuses for the various Common Entrance 11+ and 13+ to give you an idea of what should have been covered.
www.iseb.co.uk/syllabus.htm