Deciding between schools - what to look for

[microcosmia]

Hello I'm new to posting here so please bear with me! I am very conflicted about choice of secondary school for ds (special needs but very able) who is due to start in September. I am lucky insofar as I live in an area that has a good many schools that we are eligible to apply for. Where we live there are 2 private and 6 state/non fee schools. We were advised to apply to several to increase the chances of being accepted in one so we applied to 1 private and 3 non fee paying. To our surprise he was accepted in all 4 and we have been narrowing it down since. We declined the private place as state schools around here are typically very good, and are about to turn down an all boys RC (very good but very sporty school) as he might not fit in there too well. This leaves us with 2 options.
School A is top performing, very academically pushy and ultra strict. The high standards and strictness would suit ds who likes rules and targets. Families we know who chose it are mostly happy but they don't have SN children. A third of his current mainstream class will go there so he will know someone at least.This is his preferred school.
School B is more easygoing and flexible by comparison but in a good way - we are hearing very good reports from parents that their children are happy and doing well. DS doesn't want to go to School B as he will know no-one there and finds the social side of things very difficult. From speaking to both schools it's becoming clear he will get far more support in School B. He did entrance exams in school A and got reprimanded off for wandering off to look at a display on a wall when he should have been in line. He didn't seem to realise he was being chided but I cant help but wonder if this is not indicative of how things will be for him there. He is prone to getting distracted and forgetting things. For this reason DH and I feel school B would meet his needs best.

We have tried discussing the differences in the 2 schools with him and he is insisting he wants to go to school A because "you have to work hard". He says he's determined to prove himself and I do believe he could do well there with the right kind of support but I question now whether he is likely to get that there. He needs support at school now and manages well with it but still has off days when he gets frustrated etc. We need to give one school a final answer by the end of this month.
Has anyone any advice ? We have considered letting him try School A first and moving him if need be but there's unlikely to be a place in School B then as demand is high all around here (Dublin).
Sorry for the long post - my mind is so overloaded with this at the moment.

Microcosmia

[Trix2323]

My sympathies with the overloaded mind - I know how that feels!

My thoughts on school choices are that the preferences of the child are sometimes underestimated. It is essential that he wants to go to school, and this is more likely to happen if he is enrolled at the school he has chosen. His reasons for wanting to go to school A - that they would make him work hard - are admirable and should be applauded.

The social side can be very complex for some children, and can even interfere with them doing well academically (I know from experience). I would be reluctant to push a DS towards a school that he is so vehemently against. I would also not advocate "easygoing and flexible" for someone that likes structure.

Would it help if you get some more information about what the SN people at school A might be able to do for your DS?

[microcosmia]

Hi Trix thank you so much for your response. I have been having broadband blues so couldn't respond until now. I agree with what you say regarding structure etc. DS was so enthused about School A and their motivational pep talk really got through to him. Unfortunately without supports I don't know how long his motivation would keep him going.

DH and I spoke with both schools since and the bottom line is school A are not prepared to put supports in place and told us straight up we should consider other schools They are unwilling to allow him opt out of Irish class (he has an Irish exemption) and said he'd have to sit in the class even if not doing the exams. That's 5 periods a week for the next 6 years....

School B told us about the extra tuition and supports they give to other children like DS and how they hope to get a similar allocation for him 5hrs Maths/3 hrs English, Social Skills Groups etc. They were sympathetic to our concerns and gave us a lot of reassurance that he'd be supported to overcome feeling isolated. We discussed their academic programme - they offer the same range of subjects as School A at the same levels. They are governed by the same local authority. There is a more friendly, laid back feel to School B but the Head assured us he was strict but approachable and that the school policies were enforced and we saw evidence of that on our visit. It's a very new school so no track record yet but they've amassed an impressive array of Science Awards already so DH is convinced. The trouble will be to convince DS... We will broach the subject next week during mid term here and gauge the response. I'm dreading it to be honest. Wish me luck!

Microcosmia

[BackforGood]

I think your 2nd paragraph in your 2nd post answers it without any questions for me !

[pchick]

Maybe visiting school b again will encourage him to go there.

[orangetulip]

No experience of SN, but just the attitude of school A gives bad vibes to me - sounds like B would be a far better choice for him... If they're new as well they might be trying really hard .. I know the making friends thing would be tough initially, but if you're looking at the next 5 - 7 years, hopefully that's a short term concern

[microcosmia]

His current school have suggested they might take him on a visit to school B after the mid term. They can't "persuade" him obviously but they can highlight features they feel are of interest to him. The more I think of it the more this might be the way to go. He would be independent of us on the visit and that might be a good thing.

No one else from his current school will be going to school B. Where we live is the only place where two catchments overlap (luckily for us). No one else from our area goes to his current school which is at the far end of catchment 1. School B is the other end of catchment 2. School places are allocated on the basis of feeder schools. His school is not a feeder school for school B but is for school A, in fact the staff in school B had never even heard of his primary school! We can apply for catchment 1 as we live in it but were told there were no guarantees whatsoever of a place in School B and genuinely didn't expect one as schools in both catchments are generally oversubscribed. We almost didn't apply for school B for this reason and I can only imagine what I'd be posting now if we hadn't.

We are going on hols for a few days during mid term and hope to find a good moment to raise the subject with him.

[BackforGood]

If it's any help. IME friendships change hugely in Yr7. Neither ds nor dd are now close to any of the dc who were at their [irmaries - they've both got friends from different primaries.

[microcosmia]

sorry just to clarify meant to say we can apply for catchment 2 because we live in it

[microcosmia]

Backforgood What stage is Year 7 ? Is it the end of primary or beginning of secondary ? Forgive my asking - in Ireland they finish primary in 6th class aged 12 or 13 and start secondary in what's called First Year/First Form, I imagine it's roughly similar?

Several friends told me the same thing about their children not continuing friendships into secondary. I just keep remembering that on the day of the entrance exam roll call at school B there were 139 kids from all the catchment 2 schools in their school groupings together and poor ds standing to one side on his own. I think that might have something to do with his feelings about it. Not sure I'd have felt too comfortable myself in the situation either! Could be a challenge for the social skills group...

[BackforGood]

Oh, sorry.
Yr6 is the last year of Primary (the year they turn 11)
Yr 7 is the first year of secondary (the year they turn 12)
What I meant was, a lot of families put a lot of emphasis on them "having (a) friend(s) from Primary when they started secondary", but my experience is that the secondaries usually split up children from the same primary school, and do a lot of work on mixing the children up and ensuring all the children get the opportunity to meet and work with lots of different people.

[microcosmia]

Thanks BackforGood. Ds will be 13 by the time he goes to secondary which is actually not that unusual here but I can't imagine that he'd ever have been ready at 11 though! Was it a huge change for your children going from primary to secondary? Did it take them long to settle? I like the idea of mixing up the children from the same primary - it seems like the fairest way.

[cory]

The one thing I have learnt from years of parenting children with SN is never, ever put your child in a school that does not want him. Friendships can change and frequently do, but being surrounded by negative adults can wreck your life.

My dd had to go to a different school from most of her friends due to disability and it didn't do her anything like the same damage that was done from previously being in a school that found her needs a nuisance.

[microcosmia]

What a terrible experience for you and your daughter Cory. It never ceases to surprise me how much variation there can be in attitudes to SN but you wouldn't expect that from education professionals. Maybe I am naive. We have had excellent support in primary and I never underestimate for one minute the effect such commitment had on DS. No I definitely don't want that kind of negativity for him - the gains we've made were far too hard won iykwim.

[LadyGnome]

Are there any local activities or clubs that your DS could get involved with where he might meet children who are going to School B. At least then there may be a few familiar faces when he gets there even if its just someone he has played football with.

[BackforGood]

I think it is a big change, but parents worry more than the dcs . My dcs are all pretty confident people and had been used to doing things like going on District Scout Camps with people they didn't know before they got there so none of them are daunted by the idea of not knowing people before you start something - they've learned they are just friends you've not got to know yet.
My dc's Primary school was 3 form entry too, so they were used to being one of 90 in a year, and used to being in different groups with different children for maths, English, and then different folks for breakfast club and maybe different people in the choir or football team, or whatever. Both my dcs go to smaller secondaries with (ds) 4 form entry and (dd) 5 form entry, so not such a jump. I taught at a school with just 1 form entry, many of whom went up to a 10 form entry secondary. I think they found it a greater shock!

[microcosmia]

DS is a reluctant joiner he finds group activities difficult he doesn't "get" the rules. He has co-ordination problems and can't keep up. Most clubs around here are sports clubs but in the last few months a computer club started and he was keen to join that. All the kids seem to sit glued to their laptops and scarcely talk at all ! I never would have thought 30 kids in a room could be so quiet!

On a positive note when we were away for mid term we met two families staying in our hotel who have children already in school B. Ireland really is such a small place you meet your neighbours on holidays etc but that can have advantages too! Two of the boys befriended DS and included him in their group. These two had similar interests to DS and they hung out in the lobby playing computer games and went the pool together. It was a brilliant experience for DS. Then incredibly one of the mums told me they are moving soon to a house 5 mins from ours and her son is worried he will not know anyone. He will stay on in school B. This boy is only 6 months older than DS although he's a year ahead so we agreed to keep in touch and DS has already got an invite to the cinema this weekend which was greatly appreciated. So fingers crossed he may yet come around to the idea of School B. It must be all the good vibes on this board that are at work!