DD Yr 7 knows nothing of mathematics but gained a 4c in SATs.

[WinterIsComing]

Please don't flame me for not helping. I have tried all sorts, but she is so resistant when it comes to numbers.

She had a simple worksheet to do today; calculating perimeters. It transpired that she:

(a) didn't know instantly or at all (used fingers) what six add eight is. So number-bonds to ten aren't known.

(b) couldn't add that fourteen to ten mentally - forgotten partitioning and no real awareness of place value.

(c) despite me saying this all the time, didn't start with the largest number when adding, or group numbers into sets of tens. Probably because she doesn't know number bonds to ten.

(d) did not know the short method of adding nine to a given number, let alone eight or eleven.

(e) Was unable to mentally double numbers to ten. I have tried and tried with multiplication tables for years. She learns one and another one flies out of her brain. She was a star in assembly in year two for knowing her threes and fours and now 9+9 is unknown.

When I left teaching in 2003 I was quite impressed with the new numeracy strategy because it was direct teaching rather than the "work through the Fletcher Maths books and piss about with the weighing equipment and dominos ask teacher if you get stuck" method I was "taught" by.

Is DD working exceedingly hard to counteract her lack of basic, "making things easy" skills to have got this result? Granted for the last two (well four in actuality) years DH and I have been a bit over-occupied with our incredible sleepless baby / toddler / pre-schooler / reception child who is autistic but I thought that DD's exam results spoke for themselves and that the help I thought I had given her had, well, helped.

She is very naturally talented as a dancer / singer and her artistic ability is advanced. Fine at reading and writing; not great, but I tend to leave her alone on that score apart from a few discussions about the odd technical thing because she needs to feel confidence in one area.

I'm just a bit baffled really. Sorry for the tome.

[Kez100]

Maybe she just has a retention problem. My daughter (creative too) is like that. She works very hard for exams and has to - she just forgets. We are already well into revision for her GCSE because she needs to do Maths daily just to secure basic concepts. Or maybe the teaching has let her down? I think not to be honest : she says it feels like one thing goes in and so another has to fall out to compensate!

[WinterIsComing]

I think that I might do really basic things with her daily too. She had to go to hospital for something minor the other week and we were waiting as you do so I started to ask her to count in three's - cue relapse

I've paid for the Carol Voderman maths school twice now but it is far too repetitive and isn't actually an intelligent adaptive program which sifts and filters users to the level they should be. One hundred questions on multiplying by zero and another hundred about multiplying by one for example. By which time DD is bored solid and has put in enough time entering figures into boxes to be given permission to go out on her bike in the sunshine.

Thanks for replying Kez100 and I hope that your creative DD continues to do well.

[Sam100]

Take a look at mathletics.co.uk. It is another subscription site but it does allow you to choose easier/harder bits of the various topics and gives the parent feedback on how student is doing. Works by lots of little tests on curriculum topics but if you get an answer wrong you can then select the show me bit which then has a very visual explanation. You can choose what school year to start in and maybe she should start with year 6 so you can see where her gaps are.

[cory]

She must be able to get something right to get a 4 c in her SATS though. Ds only got a 3 a and he can do all those things on his head. So is it that she can do things sometimes and not at other times? I'd be wondering about a retention problem too. Or maybe she just doesn't work well for you? My dcs usually work better for other people.

[Joanie]

Hi, my DD is in yr6, but v similar. Struggling with 3 & sometimes 2x tables etc. But she is above age for reading & v articluate sporty etc. She is one of the best in the class with geometry & spatial awareness type matters. So maybe these things will bump her SATs score a bit (although numeracy is the most imp). They do coach a lot for the SATS, so maybe once that stops in Yr7, it all goes out the window for some peeps.

We are focussing (at home) on several 5min sessions on times tables and a little bit seems to be sinking in. Have to repeat it again and again tho, she forgets. I think some people will always struggle like this, so we need to help. Suprised your school haven't helped/noticed tho?

[WitchesAreComing]

That's what I thought, cory and yes she doesn't work well for me at all. What to do about a retention problem though...

Joanie you may be right about the spatial thing and SATs result.

I'll look at mathletics too.

Thank you

[WitchesAreComing]

Oh - am OP with spooky name on, sorry!

[CeliaFate]

You could be writing about my dd. She got a level 4b in her Maths assessment, but can barely add two single digit numbers together mentally. She definitely has a retention problem. She is very artistic though - can draw, sing and act beautifully. It is a worry though, as Maths is so important in everyday life.

[Kez100]

As a Mum of a year 11 suddenly realising this, can I recommend you do a bit of maths every day with your children. We have been doing this since the start of the summer holidays and it is helping. Yes, she does still forget, but the constant revision is still meaning that more is sticking. We have had to approach this with an extra hour of Maths a day. If only we had started earlier!

[bigTillyMint]

Mmmm, well some primaries "prepare" and "support" them very well at SATs time.

[WitchesAreComing]

If they do I really don't know how, bTM. I couldn't give a fuck about DD's SATs results and that's my professional opinion as a former teacher

Mind you I did once work in a "Beacon" Catholic primary and the HT would closet himself in his office after every exam putting in the odd full-stop and decimal point and would emerge knowing the exact result each child had achieved. The top-rated Catholic school in the area once sent home the actual papers for "homework"

DD's primary school was nothing like this. I've been told (former university colleague is HT) that they receive ten social services referrals each week for a start. They are amazing, but the academic side really isn't their priority. Can't imagine them cheating.

[daisysue2]

Same problems with my dds we are advised to use the Schofield and Simms Mental Arithmetic books every night. It does work if you DCs keep it up. It's a gradual building up of skills and you can skip a few pages if they are too easy. Covers all areas in one page which can be done in around 15 mins.

[cardibach]

Eight plus six is not a number bonds to ten issue...Perhaps she gets it from her mum.
I worked really hard at tables and still don't know them. I just can't. I add on my fingers or not at all. SHops could ask me for any sum of money and I'd have no clue. I got a B in O level Maths (at the end of the 1970s, so all you who think GCSEs are dead easy now can't balme it on that). Maths and arithmetic are two different things. That's how she has a good(ish) result but no ability to add.

[breadandbutterfly]

You all seem to be being v gentle about this - if it was my dc I'd be getting some serious help - talking to teachers etc. How can a child reach secondary (no matter what SAT Level they got) and not be able to add 6+8? Discalculia (??sp?) = condition where kids have real problems with basic maths, like dyslexia for reading - could your dd have this?

Realistically, everyone needs to be able to do very basic maths in their heads, calculators or no calculators. It's a basic life skill and it's not fair on your dd to leave her floundering, trying to figure it out on her own. As a parent, I think you have a duty to get appropriate and personalised help for your dc that no online maths course can provide.

[Chelseatina]

A 4C in a Year 6 SAT means that the pupil just barely reached the National expectations which are (in my humble opinion) not very high to begin with. Most pupils would at least be expected to reach a secure Level 4, e.g. 4A, or 4B...a good percentage of a class should actually reach Level 5. So, in essence, it is not surprising that a pupil who reached 4C in Year 6 SAT's is struggling somewhat...

[Kez100]

Well, my daughter made it. She sat foundation early in November of year 11 and has passed with a C (and maximum UMS). She did work very hard though. As she reminded us, in January 2011, she took a GCSE Maths mock (no warning so no revision) and scored an E. It took a lot of revision and practice work from July-November to get her, not just to a C, but to a quality mark and full understanding of the syllabus. But she did it and the best bit is, she understands it and can still do it, months after the exam has been sat.

[Minx179]

I agree with breadandbutterfly in that I would consider looking to see if your DD has Dyscalculia.

Kez your DD should be very proud of herself, I can only imagine the time and effort she must have put in to to raise her grade two levels, but it is not that easy for some children, no amount of revision and practice will get the facts to stick.

Witches your DD appears to be stuck on the basic understanding and foundations of maths is it worth trying to go right back to basics and building on from there?

[FootprintsInTheSnow]

are you sure shecan't ? Or she won't in a home environment.

If I ask DD a maths question, she'll often bat me off with a wild guess and carry on with what she is doing. In context - sitting down with a pencil in her hand and told to not rush - she'll do the same sum accurately.

[Kez100]

Minx, I do know what you are saying, but it was not that easy for her.

If there are SEN issues then, yes, I fully appreciate it may not even be possible.

However, there are also the not very bright at Maths kids too. That's my daughter. I always thought she was doing OK because, in class, she did it but all she was really doing was following the rules shown. The minute time lapsed so did her knowledge of anything Mathematical beyond a level 5. We used to think she had just had bad days on end of term tests but it became obvious in year 9 that wasn't the case - she just wasn't progressing beyond a low level 5. It has taken her immense amounts of work to get to where she did and I found she actually started clicking with Maths after 6 months of intense daily work. I mentioned it because it might help others, especially if they start earlier than we did. My daughter had only 6 months (inc a summer holiday - she did about 10 hours a week over the summer - repetitive basic stuff - level 4 and 5, bit of 6)

Even at the end, I knew she could get a C, but she was still very prone to making lots of silly mistakes. You just can't get away with that in foUndatIon because you need the high scores for a C. We ended up teaching her to review her work and she realised what she was doing. We hoped she'd have enough time in the exams to check properly, and she did. In fact, paper one she said she reviewed and changed about 15 answers! Waiting for the results was a very worrying time.

[domesticgodessintraining]

For some children parental input is vital, the curriculum moves so fast nowadays I believe that without reinforcement some children really suffer.
My niece is working at level 3c for maths and level 2a for English she?s in Year 6 !!! There is nothing ?wrong? with her she is just a product of an education without any parental support whatsoever, my sister does not believe in pushing children she thinks that if a school can?t teach her child in 8 hours what hope has she got when said child comes home.
I don?t agree with DSis, children need constant praise and encouragement. I would do as other posters have suggested and try to do a little extra with her each day to build her confidence before starting secondary school.

[daisysue2]

I'll just say this again as we have had a break and didn't carry on doing maths as posted earlier in this thread.

15 mins four times a week of the Schofield and Sims Mental Arithmetic book is an easy way to ensure you know where your child is at.

Many of the maths teachers, special needs teachers, tutors etc that we deal with all say that this is the best book, way better than Mathletics which we do as well. This is all about mental maths, it's varied and gradual.

Don't be affraid to go over and over the book again and again if they haven't grasped certain concepts. It is much cheaper than any computer programm at only £2.95. I think a reward for doing it helps We say pocket money is give if they have done four pages a week.

Here's a link so you can have a look at the content. This is KS2 book 1 which i'm doing with my dd as she is a 3a in y7 (Ahh I knew I should have kept up the work over the summer holidays and practice what I preach). We use same level book with dd in y3.

www.amazon.co.uk/Mental-Arithmetic-Book-1-Goddard/dp/0721707998/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1327401764&sr=8-2&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21