Whitgift School - how do the Non-sporty boys fare?

[Rolymo]

My son loved the science course at whitgift, but I can't shake off the feeling that he may get lost if he doesn't shine at sport. Anyone got any experience?

[LIZS]

Have to say the boys we know who have gone there are sporty (ie. local club rugby team players) as well as academic. They do run enough teams to accommodate all. Have you considered Trinity as that seems more of a halfway house and is also part of the Whitgift foundation.

[Caoimhe]

It does have the reputation of being uber sporty and the majority of the boys I know there are very sporty types.

I was quite shocked when I visited that the headmaster's talk was almost exclusively about sporting achievements.

Agree with Lizs that you should consider Trinity too - it is smaller than Whitgift and, although sport is pretty important, it is more renowned for music (think Trinity Boys Choir).

[Rolymo]

Thanks. We're looking at Trinity too. He did do the sports course there for a day, but didn't feel as positive as he did about Whitgift (probably because he was doing sport all day!)

Any thoughts on Caterham? A bit further out, but their results seem rather impressive. Or is that just a co-ed v single sex thing?

[Caoimhe]

I did consider Caterham - I thought it was a very nice school but it's not in quite the same academic league as Trinity or Whitgift. Not that I was too bothered by that as ds is hardly Einstein!

The only thing that put me off Caterham was the difficulty of getting to it. They don't run school buses from my area and the school only picks up from the station - there is no drop-off at the station at hometime. It is really far to walk so ds would have been stuck trying to get home!

Have you considered Royal Russell? I know it's not a high-flier from an academic viewpoint but it is easy to get to by tram.

Are you looking at 10+ or 11+ (the former is supposed to be easier)?

[Rolymo]

Really?

2010 A level results

Trinity A 21%, A/A 61%
Whitgift A 18.2%, A/A 60.5%
Caterham A 25%, A/A 66%

GCSE results

Trinity A 35.2%, A/A 73.1%
Whitgift A 35.9%, A/A 70.2%
Caterham A36.4%, A/A 70.3%

So what are these results hiding if Caterham is in a different academic league? Am very curious? Don't see many soft options amongst the Caterham subjects.

We're not on the tram and are from the south, so all schools are equally do-able. If anything Caterham is a shorter journey than Trinity. I guess the lack of lift to Caterham station is offset by the fact that it is a downhill walk:)

My son is fairly academic so we do want somewhere with a bit of a stretch. Royal Russell don't publish their results which is a bit worrying. We'd been looking at 10+, but that really narrows our choices down to Trinity, as Caterham doesn't do 10+.

[Caoimhe]

That's interesting. My ds is already at T so I haven't bothered looking at the results for a while. Caterham has always had the reputation of being half a rung below T and W. Of course when you are looking at those kinds of figures it's all a bit marginal anyway!!

If I recall correctly I only compared the GCSE results for the core subjects between each school rather than the overall percentage. Do you subscribe to The Good Schools Guide? They have this fab thing called QlikView which produces all sorts of whizzo graphs comparing schools' results.

I suppose you have to bear in mind that Caterham's results could be bumped up by having girls - do they publish the results separately by sex?

LOL at "downhill walk". Of course you could always do Caterham Prep followed by the senior school. Caterham is a very, very nice school and T, W and C all have different strengths and weaknesses - it's more a case of which one would be the best fit for your ds.

Surprised RR don't have their results on their website but I'm sure they are available if you ask for them. Obviously, again RR has a Prep if you prefer an earlier move than 11.

[breathtakingben]

Hiya,

I'm in year 13 at Trinity if anyone has any questions. :)

Also, Trinity is easy to get to on the tram via Sandilands.

[Caoimhe]

- hello Ben. Pity you are in Y13 - you'll miss the arrival of the girls in September!

[breathtakingben]

Can't see the fuss really. What's a Y chromosome between friends :P

Means it will be more difficult to get into the sixth form, and I'd just be distracted...

[Caoimhe]

Agree re the difficulty of getting into the sixth form - poor ds is only in First Form so he has a long way to go.

Shouldn't you be doing UCAS stuff or something?

[basildonbond]

we know a couple of non-sporty boys at Whitgift - one's very musical and the other's fantastic at drama - they do both excel at something though, which I think is the key ... the ones I feel for are the boys who aren't particularly good at anything as I think they'd be a bit overlooked

[Rolymo]

Thanks. I think that that gels with the impression that we got, that merely being a strong academic isn't enough at Whitgift, you need to excel at something too. Trinity and Caterham seem less focussed on the "stars", though both seem to have suffered from a reputation that they're not Whitgift standard, even though the current exam results (last 3 years) seem to indicate otherwise. I guess a decade or so ago that may have been true. The strongest fans of Whitgift are those parents who themselves went to school in the area, so may be biased based on historical results.

Any thoughts on the differences in opportunities for the boys at Trinity and Caterham apart from the most obvious one!

[Caoimhe]

I agree with you, Rolymo, that Whitgift's historical reputation is the thing that makes people chose it despite the fact that Trinity and Caterham are overtaking it academically.

Of course some people are also swayed by the lovely old building and flashy sports facilities (and the array of exotic beasties!). I'm not sure the headmaster is an asset, though.

You will also find a different ethnic mix at Whitgift to the other two schools (this is particularly noticeable at Caterham although becoming more obvious at Trinity now too).

Differences in opportunities - hmm, well T is definitely stronger in music and I think gets better sports results (I don't pay much attention to the latter). C has the benefit of being co-ed so drama may make mores sense there - although T import girls sometimes for drama stuff.

T is quite big on science/engineering - I'm thinking here of the Trinity School Racing thing - not sure if C do anything similar?

Re sports - football is pretty minor at T and rugby is big.

I think the differences are in the margins and you only need to consider them if your ds is really, really into one particular thing. For example, if he is a keen singer or musician I would definitely suggest T. Good luck!!

[Rolymo]

Slightly scary at how few differences there are then: there is a club at Caterham which builds a Caterham kit car each term, and Caterham definitely excels at the sciences. C's main sports are rugby, hockey and cricket. If anything I thought that Trinity had the edge in drama in terms of facilities, so perhaps I'll have a closer look.

[Caoimhe]

I remember now - yes I was told about the Caterham car thing! I'd completely forgotten that!

If I remember rightly the drama facilities at C are across the road from the main buildings - I don't recall them as being at quite the same standard as T but I could be wrong. I also had the impression that T's art facilities were slightly better.

Of course T is cheaper which is always an advantage!!!

[LIZS]

Would agree the art facilities are better at T but think C scores on setting.

[breathtakingben]

Everyone's UCAS stuff has been sent off; I'm currently doing German homework.

[Rolymo]

Ok Ben, how many of your teachers are you planning to keep in touch with post Trinity? And how many would you view as truly inspirational?

[breathtakingben]

I have 6 teachers across three subjects. (Bio/Chem/German)

I'll probably keep in touch with my german teachers, but that's it. If I get in, I'm anticipating that medicine will take over my life, and I'm not really the most sociable person either.

3/6 of my teachers is inspirational. that goes up to 4/8 with my AS politics tutors, and there a few others who inspired me during GCSE. This is normally due to intellectual ability/opinions that interest me.
On the other hand, there have been 2 notably bad teachers during my time at Trinity, (I was only taught by one) and both have left. My English teacher was a tad boring, but the others are great.

[SchoolsQuestion]

I have a few friends and acquaintances with children at Whitgift. Feedback is that its pastoral care is not very good and that staff are only interested in the achievers (academic or sporting). However, if you are on of those achievers, then it's a great school. When the parents went round the schools, the Trinity talk was all about what the school can do for your son; the Whitgift head only talked about what you/your son can do for the school (in terms of fame, sporting or otherwise, and hence bringing notoriety to the school).

Here's the results from the Sunday Times this weekend:

GCSE %A*-A
Trinity - 73.1
Caterham - 70.3
Whitgift - 70.2
Royal Russell - 35.4

GCSE A*
Caterham - 36.4
Whitgift - 35.9
Trinity - 35.2
Royal Russell - 11.8

School ranking (GCSE)
Trinity - 96=
Caterham - 118
Whitgift - 119=
Royal Russell - 392

A level A*
Caterham - 25.3
Trinity - 21
Whitgift - 18.2
Royal Russell - 6.8

A level A*-A
Caterham - 66.4
Trinity - 61
Whitgift - 60.5
Royal Russell - 35.5

A level A*-B
Caterham - 92.3
Trinity - 90
Whitgift - 88.5
Royal Russell - 66.1

School ranking (A level)
Caterham - 48=
Trinity - 64=
Whitgift - 80
Royal Russell - 320=

[Ladymuck]

It is always difficult to read the trends though. Certainly the introduction of A at A level is now significant, esp if you are in the indie sector as it seems that many of the top unis are routinely throwing an A into the offer.

[Caoimhe]

Thanks for that SchoolsQuestion.

LOL - Dr Barnett must be sobbing into his little doggie's coat!

[camptownraces]

All the "performance tables" for 2010 are available on the government website, both for GCSE and A level.

Don't forget, if a school put boys in for IB (instead of A-level) or IGSE (instead of ordinary GCSE) those results will not be included in the tables. Ask each school whether this applies.

Each school's apparent performance is as much related to the calibre of the intake of pupils, and their motivation and application, as to the teaching.

Don't forget that some of the schools you've mentioned actually heave boys out if they seem not to be making the grade academically or otherwise, before they can besmirch the school's published results.

OP had a good question. In my experience, a non-sporty boy can feel quite unvalued at the school in question. All the staff know which boys have scholarships, and don't expect much of those who are not "scholars".

[Ladymuck]

I don't think that that is true for the igcse, for these schools at least. I think that Whitgift, Trinity and Caterham all do igcse for some subjects (and all do for maths), and in order to get to the stats quoted you have to include maths.

[deaddei]

Just as an aside, Whitgift were beaten at football last Friday by an "improving" boys state school.
As you were.