Think I'm being dumped by my brother.......what to do?

[NorthEastNorah]

It's really sad, we have always been very close, but his gf and I don't get along at all.

Since meeting her he has become convinced by conspiracy theories, loads and loads of them. Literally everything can be put down to a conspiracy theory. I don't actually blame her for this change, and it's neither here nor there whether it has anything to do with her. She is very argumentative with our family, and huffy and tutty (iykwim)with my (relatively well behaved) children.

We have all agreed that it is better if we steer away from political conversations/arguments as this inevitably leads on to some mad theories about a few Jewish families ruling the world, che, trails, weather mainipulation, innoculation conspiracuies, food conspiracies, even at times holocaust denial! It is depressing and disturbing.

They've been together 5 years and clearly she isn't going away.

Oh god, long story short, sorry;

Christmas was a disaster, she was very rude to everyone, my kids, my Dad, she was argumentative and kept asking my bro when they could leave. She is also passive agressive, making regular comments about various things, food, people. In essence she's not very nice, but my bro clearly loves her.

A month or so later we went away for a family weekend ,and I stopped being nice to her. Reacted to some ridiculous arguments she initiated, and am now in the dog house.

Been for a drink twice with db and he has torn strips off me three times since we went away. The things he says ought to be unforgivable, but I don't really think he's rational. He is sane, but this conspiracy thing is mental and all encompassing. Also, she has clearly been bending his ear and every time I think we're sorted, he comes back to me with a new level or anger and diatribe.

He's back to ignoring me again I think. She wants me to apologise to her, he has said I don't need to, but I think he might have changed his mind. I really don';t think I can without her and him at least conceding some of her bad behaviour.

Do I accept with a deep sadness that my relationship with him has changed beyond repair and just let him get on with things with her, or do I fight to keep him as my friend and brother.

Guess if it's the latter I need to apologise to her.

[rubyslippers]

i couldn't get past the holocaust denial bit

what a shame you will become estranged from your brother but i couldn't even be in the same room as her

[mrsboogie]

christ. I couldn't be in the same room as her either. Isn't holocaust denial a crime nowadays?

weather manipulation? good grief.

The problem is I think that it is perfectly possible for one person to get infected by another person's "madness" if they let themselves. He is letting her turn him into a loon.

If I were you I would do one of those terrible "interventions" that the Americans do with their substance abusing relatives. I would get any willing family and friends in a room with him (with her not there obviously) and tell him in no uncertain terms that the woman is a loon. Tell him you cannot subject yourselves to her insanity any longer but will be waiting for him if and when he sees the light. Then let him make his own choices.

If he cuts himself off from you all he will become completely subsumed into crazy lala land I'm afraid.

There's no point in apologising to her -unless you are prepared to let her and her awful loony theories dominate everyone else for ever. It will all just keep happening again and again. She is determined to be top dog.

[drloves8]

have you concidered that he may be suffering mental heath problems? or using drugs. the gf sounds just like she defo has issues .... .
do they have kids ?

[TulipsInTheRain]

No way should you apologise to her, that would be a green light to her to keep behaving badly towards you family.

Holocaust denial? ffs, the woman is wrong in the head

I seriously think the posters who've suggested mental health issues... both in her case and your db's.... have it on the money.

In his case it could well be mental ill health by osmosis and if he is no longer in her influence he may start to come back to himself but it doesn't sound like he'll give her up easily........ the sex must be great as i can't see the attraction otherwise

[Kiwinyc]

I like the intervention idea.

He is obviously heavily influenced by her but short of offering her lots of money to get of town like they do US soaps I would try the intervention - but I would seek some professional guidance to ensure that it was effective otherwise you could lose him forever to this loon.

[NorthEastNorah]

Thank you.

I've considered the intervention idea, but he is bloody-mindedly stubborn and I really do think that this would entrench him further, and I'm sure that the rest of my family would consider it to be far too much of a risk.

I think that her and her father were responsible for his introduction to all these mad conspiracy theories, but he really has run with it, and I think often tries to convince them, with success, of madder ideas.

I did initially consider mental health issues, but I don't really think he is suffering from anything serious like that. This has been going on for a few years. He is paranoid and does have a very fucked up world view though, but whether that would constitue a mental health issue, I don't think so???. He was never like this previously, he has always been extremely laid back, he did used to smoke a lot of pot though, and he doesn't anymore. I think that has definitely had an impact though.

Tulips, when you say that the sex must be great, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think that she has always used sex to get what she wants. I know of an incident where she shagged her 50 year old boss, I don't know if db knows about this, it was a long time before they met. I have heard many a tale of her turning up places with him with the tops of her suspenders exposed. She did have some sort of breakdown in the past.

I know that holocaust denial is abhorrent (that statement sounds like such a shocking understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), but in reality this is never mentioned, so whilst it proves a big obstruction to my ability to like her, it doesn't actually impact upon the day to day relationship, as long as politics are not discussed. The other night db engineered a political discussion with me, then started to call me bonkers when I tried to change the subject (after he told me that he wanted to vote for ukip!).

It's so sad. I don't want to lose him.!

[JaneS]

The way you describe it, you sound as if the girlfriend is a truly scary influence on your brother. But, then I read the title where you worry about being 'dumped' and I see you happily speculating on the sort of sex this woman has (with your brother?) ... forgive me, but I think there are problems on both sides and you need to back off a little.

[mrsboogie]

It is very sad. It's a bit like he has embarked on some addiction and can't see how his changed behaviour impacts on his relationships.

Tbh I don't think they are mentally ill (at least no more than some of the other people you read about on here)which is why I was a bit fast and loose with the "loon" terminology. It is just very very odd but there are loads of people around who would rather believe in conspiracies than reality.

Sounds like maybe he was predisposed towards this mindset and she found her perfect victim.

If your overriding concern is to not lose him out of your life completely then could you perhaps agree ground rules whereby no contentious subjects are raised when you are together?

[Ladyscratt]

I have been working with someone like this, poisonous conniving and devious to the point of being seriously evil. I have had to give up a great job because of her.

In your case, I would try and avoid her if possible because she is deliberately trying to cause arguments and he will always take her side.

If she has him she has everything and you won't win.

Try being ultra nice to the point of sarcastic and don't let anything she does rile you turn the table but don't react because she will use it to alienate you from your brother by making out that you are the monster.

People like this will seduce the ones who have the power to enable them to get away with the poison and the evil.

Has she always been like this?

[NorthEastNorah]

mrsboogie, yes I think you're right, he must have been predisposed towards this, and if I do get an opportunity then I'll talk about groundrules again.

Ladyscratt, you are right about the arguments, and I think that maybe forcing myself to be far too nice in response to her is something I'll have to try. I've tried before, and it's worked,. but been a bit galling.

I don't think she's evil, but she is manipulative, and she doesn't like my brother's family, which demonstrates how she clearly doesn't have his best interests at heart.

LittleRedDragon: I think she has had a negative influence on him, I think he is responsible for his points of view though, and I don't blame her for his weird opinions. I don't think she has had a truly scary influence on him, but it isn't good.
I am not 'happily speculating on the sort of sex this woman has with my brother'!!! Oh yuck and yuck. I mentioned it because I think it demonstrates the sort of person she is; (i.e. deeply neurotic and very manipulative, not evil) and it also maybe goes some way towards explaining why he might be with her.
I did lol at your point though! I really really do not have 'those' sorts of issues with my brother!!!

[JaneS]

Fair enough Norah, I realize from your response you're not that sort of person! I just have occasionally come across women (mum, daughter, sister) who are just intrusive - I don't think it's sexual, it's just controlling and not a healthy situation imo. But of course, in this situation you do have ample reasons to be really sad and concerned for your brother!

[mrsboogie]

"Try being ultra nice to the point of sarcastic and don't let anything she does rile you turn the table but don't react because she will use it to alienate you from your brother by making out that you are the monster."

If you can do it - this is probably the way to go. I would find it very hard and would have to make sure never to have even a glass of wine around her for fear of the loosening effect on my tongue. You can but try!

[KoalaSar]

I have a female relative like this - she has poisoned my family against me by lying to start arguments.

I've given up on the entire family, now.

I have no idea about the extent of what she says behind my back - just the general jist.

The sad thing is that others believe people like this. As another poster said - she manages to "seduce" them.

[motherlovebone]

Similar thing happened to our family, though the GF wasnt as loopy as this one.

Ended up all being alienated from DB except me, who would keep my mouth shut.

I think the more you are 'against' them, the more they will stick together.

Accept him, accept her, accept them, and laugh it off, or risk losing him.

Personally i would apologise in a way that didnt revoke my opinion.

'im sorry if you were offended'
'i didnt mean to hurt you'
'i want us to get along'

[BritFish]

holocaust denial.

[swears loudly into a pillow for 10 minutes]

shes freaking CRAZY.

i think you're going to have to put up with it/avoid her though. if your brothers under her spell, only he can come to his senses.

[Ladyscratt]

On the other hand I would be inviting my sexiest friend around when she is there and doing things to make her uncomfortable ie serving up something you know she doesn't like to eat but you can pretend you didn't kow and then apologise profusley but in a way that no,one would suspect actually pisses her off. I know thats mean but it would make me feel better.

Make your brother some nice food and invite them to join you whenever possible, these things will drive her nuts but in your brothers eyes you are being lovely.

[HappyWoman]

what a horrible situation - we have had similar.

You could agree to disagree and like someone else said just be really nice and maybe when she says something so shocking just burst out laughing and say 'you are joking surely?'
When she gets angry - have something to fire back at her - like some conspiracy about how the govenment need to keep us all 'angry' to contol us and you are surprised she has risen to it - and then say 'chillax' dont let the bastards get to you!

If your brother chooses to cut you out of his life i am afraid there is nothing you can do - just be there for him when he needs you.

[NorthEastNorah]

koalasar, poor you, it sounds awful! Hope things resolve for you.

You're all so right when you suggest a 'rising above it' tactic.

Ladyscratt, I eventually came to the conclusion that strengthening my relationship with my bro, going for drinks, calling for chats etc etc was the way ahead, it's the perfect advice, I have to get back to where I was with that tactic. It did annoy her, which was a bonus for all sorts of reasons (I was glad she's annoyed + bro couldn't side with her annoyance etc). However I screwed it all up completely by getting pissed off with her eventually! I feel like I have walked in to her trap.

I resolve to get back to a more manageable equilibrium.

Thank you all

[BitOfFun]

Perhaps she is actually a lizard?

[NorthEastNorah]

omg, I think you might be right [grim]

[NorthEastNorah]

um, I meant