Access to children - scared for their safety

[thesadone]

I would be grateful for some advice, I am considering splitting from DH, things have been bad for a long time and fear of change has kept me in a bad situation for a long time. One of my main concerns is that DH loves to drink, he feels he doesn't have a problem, but he drinks every day and thinks nothing of a Saturday night in drinking 2/3 bottles of wine or 8/10 pints on a night in the pub. Also, when I have left him to look after DC during the day he will always do something they want bike ride for example, but manage to swing past the pub and have a couple of pints or meet up with friends again involving a few drinks. I have managed to shield them from this by rarely leaving them with him on his own, a perfect example is this week I suggested going to London on the train to go to the Zoo, Natural History Musuem etc, his response was great we can also have a really boozy lunch not having to drive, I am horrified how he always wants to drink around the DC's. My question is if we split, he obviously needs to see the DC but without my involvement he will drink when looking after them, what if there is a problem or emergency? Or equally, if he is at the bar, and they are playing outside in my mind they are in potential danger, he says nothing will happen, not a risk I am prepared to take. Can a court put a restriction on him not to drink when he as access to the children? Does this sort of thing exist?

[snowleopard]

I didn't want this to go unanswered but I'm afraid I don't know the legal situation. Could you start with CAB, or ask advice from social services? It sounds very much as if he is an alcoholic, and so there might be something you can do legally. I don't think he will stop drinking though, so it may be more a question of restricting access than restricting the drinking.

Also, could you say to him, you drink too much and it is dangerous to be drunk in charge of the children, so i don't want you to have sole charge. He might be fine with that as he sounds as if he's not that interested in looking after them.

Does he have anyone like a mum who could be there too when he has access, or anything like that?

[sandyballs]

How old are the kids?

[DutchOma]

Hiya, nice to see you back. How have you been getting on since you last posted on 20th November?

[thesadone]

He says he definitely does not have a problem, unfortunately his family live 200 miles away, his whole family with the exception of his mother love to drink. So no help there I'm afraid. He feels that because he doesn;t drink on Tuesday night (I mean I ask you!) that there is no problem. Monday is 3 pints, Tuesday nothing, Wednesday 4/5 pints, Thursday 4/5 pints, Friday 3/4 pints & 2 bottles of wine, Saturday lots and lots but not until after 5pm (because I stop him!) and Sunday 6/8 pints and 2 bottles of wine, he says this is normal, it isn't is it? I feel that this is a vast amount of booze to get through and he manages to drink all that whilst I am trying to stop him, so when left to his own devices much more as he starts earlier. He says he adores DC and I believe he does as he loves to do things with them but not to the exclusion of drinking, which he says is normal for a parent to have a drink to relax. I feel that you should'nt drink when your with your kids, obviously the odd glass is ok, but being drunk with little children is just wrong. Am I being unreasonable?

[snowleopard]

OMG of course you're not! That is NOT a normal amount to drink but what is normal, sadly is for alcoholics to swear they don't have a problem.

Tell him you will agree he doesn't have a problem if he will, for the sake of the kids' safety, with your help, keep a diary of his drinking for one week, then go to the GP with you to discuss whether all this is OK and if he has a problem. If he's so sure it's fine, then the GP will agree with him surely?

[thesadone]

The DC's are 5 and 3.

DutchOma, hello again, things have just been the same, we have had numerous conversations and he has said he will try and be different, I thought for the sake of the family I will give it another shot, but DS has been poorly and he has just carried on as if nothing to do with him, partying every night going to all the things we were both invited to, not at all supportive, coming home everynight drunk and then having long lie ins, because he feels tired/hungover so I will have to manage alone, its my job - to quote him! I am now starting to consider the practicalities of leaving and the care of the DCs is my main concern, hence my new post.

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

But you were asking for advice on conception just the other day?

[thesadone]

Yes I was, and that clearly looks like I'm insane, but I thought in what probably was a moment of madness that perhaps if we had another baby that he might wake up and straighten himself out, it sounds so pathetic to say but he is kind to me when I am pregnant and I hoped against hope that we might be able to sort things out, but after yesterday and his horrid drunken ranting I realise that it would be the most foolish thing to do, I just want a happy family and realising that with him it can never be is just awful. I have desparate desire for another child, and the realisation that I will probably not have one at my age is another pain to deal with, I suppose in a moment of madness I thought perhaps even if I got pregnant quickly I could have the baby and not be with him, but I rationally realise that 3 small DC's and divorce is bad but probably a world harder with a small baby. I'm just a mess, grabbing at one thing and then swinging onto another emotion, why can't I get myself together and just leave, how come even when he is treating me so badly I have hung on in there, what the hell is wrong with me.

[DutchOma]

There is nothing wrong with you but you will have to realise that YOU and YOU ALONE will have to do it. When you first posted we said, several of us, CAB and Women's Aid. They are the ones who have the experience, they will know how to deal with the mess you feel you have in your own life.
If, after three weeks, you have not been in touch with CAB, nor with Women's Aid, there is not a lot we can do for you over the internet.
Sorry to be harsh, but...

[lou33]

i left my exh because of his drinking, he wont admit he is an alcoholic and i doubt he ever will.

he rarely sees the kids, but when he does i have told him that i expect him to turn up sober, not stinking of booze, and remain sober while he sees them, or else i wont hand them over

whether he likes it or not is not my concern, my priority is the children and their wellbeing

i have also told him i expect him to be able to finance their day with him, and not expect me to give them money for it, or for him to borrow cash from them , as he has done ion the past

you just have to stick to your guns and make it clear that he is not being restricted from seeing them, he just has to be sober and able to care for them when he does

you can be arrested for being drunk in charge of a child i believe, i dont know if telling him that would make a difference?

[thesadone]

Thx Lou33, will def get some legal advice on this, but good to know how others handle situations.

[DutchOma]

this is the link to Women's Aid

[lou33]

he is not easy to handle because of his drinking, you need the patience of a saint, but just stick to your guns and know you are doing it for the sake of hte kids well being

[thesadone]

DutchOma thx x

[Fleurlechaunte]

And that is exactly why I name change for various situations on Mumsnet because relationships are up and down and I dont want to have to answer why I was happy one day and not the next.

My dh used to drink like this but I don't allow him to drink around the dc at all anymore. It is a deal breaker for us. I have exactly the same concerns as you op about what would happen if we split and he has them unsupervised. I will be watching this thread with interest because I need the advice too.

[thesadone]

Sorry to be a pest but are there any MN's out there who know if you can get legal restrictions placed on access? I have left a message on my local CAB, so hopefully I can get some advice from them very soon.

[lou33]

i think you would need to speak to a solicitor who specialises in family law to find that out

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

thesadone - I don't think so, unless the contact itself is ordered through the courts, or if it is arranged through social services.

[blinks]

you would do well to see your GP and ask for advise, that way, it will be on your record.

also find your local al-anon group and ask their advise. you will also get some real support and understanding, regardless of what decision you make.

don't worry so much about the future that you don't make decisions today.

[NotBigJustBolshy]

If contact needs to be supervised you can have this at a contact centre. But I believe you need to go through the court process to get this. I split from my first husband because of his drinking and he refused to go through the courts, but agreed to supervised contact at my house - but only if I supervised. This was very taxing, as he frequently turned up very drunk. But at least I knew my dd (4 at the time) was safe. I never could leave him in charge of her when I was married to him, so I would have gone to court if I needed to in order to stop him having unsupervised access. My ex never did face up to his alcoholism or his responsibilities, despite developing alcoholic liver disease and, in the end, losing everything because of drink.

[critterjitter]

thesadone

In answer to your question, yes. CAFCASS (who will automatically intervene before the first court appearance over contact and/or custody) can make recommendations to the court. You will both be interviewed by CAFCASS, and then their notes will be sent into the court for your first appearance (this should happen on the same day).

They (CAFCASS) can for example state that your other half does not drive the children (because of the drink problem) during contact. However, I would think it very likely that they will discuss supervised access in a contact centre if they feel that he does have a drink problem which overspills into his times with the children.

[critterjitter]

PS

Forgot to mention that if the Judge accepts the CAFCASS recommendations (very likely that he/she will), they will be written into any contact order, eg.

• that he is allowed contact on every 2nd Saturday and Boxing Day

• that he may not drive the children during this time

• that he may not visit public houses etc with the children

[thesadone]

CritterJitter, thanks so much for that, and thanks to everyone that has replied, v helpful, I have a meeting with CAB and Solicitor planned for after Christmas, not sure quite when I am going to make the jump, want to get finances and mind completely sorted, but as they say information is power, so really appreciate the advice. Because, I know when push comes to shove, he is not going to play nicely at all.

[critterjitter]

BTW, thesadone, be prepared for a few dirty tricks from his solicitor. I was depicted by his solicitor as a vengeful unhinged mum who wanted to deny him access to his child. And they were raking up every smidgeon of dirt on me for the last 40 years! A love letter that I had as an 11 year old was solemnly presented as proof that I was having an affair now!

However, CAFCASS were excellent at interviewing him and did actually get out of him GET THIS - that he DID drink and drive and was driving on 2 separate licences (applied fraudulently for a 2nd one in a different name after being banned on the 1st one!). They were very skilled at interviewing and seeing what was what.

[Suezzz]

I didn't have to go to court to be able to use a contact centre (ex husband is an alcoholic). My solicitor contacted the contact centre and arranged it.