Abusive relationship

[Tictac105]

I've NCd for this.

If somebody bullies you into having sex with them, is it rape? If for example, they make you feel guilty for saying no; say they will go elsewhere for it, or generally pressurise you into it after you've said no.

I've left him already, but I keep having awful dreams about the 'relationship' we had. (Replays of actually events and sometimes an exaggerated version of what happened).

I feel like I'm constantly on edge every time my phone goes off, in case it's him or his family.

I think I need professional help to 'get over' the abuse in the relationship and all that happened once I left, but I don't know where to go to start the process. I left him in December, but only just feeling like this now.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Feeling traumatised following on from the end of an abusive relationship is normal and I would answer yes to your first question. You may also want to talk to Rape Crisis. It was not your fault that all this happened.

Talk also to Womens Aid on 0808 2000 247 and enrol on their Freedom Programme; this can help you going forward.

[LegoCaltrops]

Yes. My XP did this to me, a lot. It never occurred to me until a couple of years ago (nearly a decade after I left him) that's what it was. He used to tell me he would cheat or pay for sex if I didn't do what he wanted. It's manipulative & abusive & it's not your fault. Definitely look at the Freedom Programme & contact WA.

[Tictac105]

Thank you for your replies. I will definitely contact WA. I've been considering the freedom programme for a while now.

Sorry to hear you went through similar. Did you tell anyone RL? I haven't and I'm not sure I want to. He never physically forced me or hurt me, so I'd be worried people would think 'it can't have been that bad then.'

[pumpkinpie5]

Hey. I am going through something similar and have started a thread where I have received lots of great advice and support which might help you too.

I am no longer with my ex but it's taking me a long time to deal with everything that happened in the relationship and since. To answer your question above, yes it is rape. If they have pressured you into it after you have said no, and they know you don't want it. I have spent a lot of time research things and trying to find answers as I have been going crazy at times trying to deal with everything. If you look at sexual abuse, there are different types - one of which is coercive sexual abuse, and covers all of what you have talked about above.

I am seeing a counsellor privately and she has been brilliant. I have a long way to go but didn't see her originally intending to talk about the rape and abuse- this was something I realised and admitted to myself after many sessions just dealing with the breakup. I would highly recommend you see a counsellor or call rape crisis, they will be able to help you work things through. I won't lie, it is tough at times and I have felt worse, and still struggling but having someone on your side who is unbiased and there to listen does make a difference and get you crazy constant thoughts out of your head.

Really hope you can get the support you need to work this all through


X

[InTheNorth123]

Hi pumpkin, sorry to hear about your experience
I hope the counselling is helping you. Did you go to your GP to get referred, or just find a local counsellor on the internet?

(I'm not sure how to NC on my mobile. I'm the OP).

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

There are various legal definitions but the impact on the victim is very similar. Rape is specifically proceeding with sexual contact with someone against their wishes. Coercing someone into sex with threats or manipulative techniques is termed sexual abuse. You don't have to have been injured or physically intimidated for the experience to be extremely damaging. I'd recommend you talk to Rape Crisis and I hope you get the help you need.

[InTheNorth123]

Thanks Cog. I go through stages of feeling ok about things, but that's usually if I'm busy. I'm on holiday ATM (Uni student) so I guess that's why it's on my mind more than when I was busy in Uni and placement etc (trainee teacher).

I'm not sure if I'm ready to speak to rape crisis. I think I'd feel like a fraud since he wasn't ever physically aggressive.

[TisILeclerc]

Yes, it is definitely rape. I was married to my ex for 16 years during which most of 'our' sex life was as you describe. There were a few occasions where it was more forceful but generally it was guilt and simply an entitled expectation that I would put up with whatever he wanted.

It really is rape though. I knew this but it wasn't quite real to me until dd1 reported some historical physical abuse in February this year. In supporting her statement I was also interviewed and disclosed everything. Although the physical abuse towards both dd and I is beyond the statute limitation, the sexual abuse he perpetrated to me is still under investigation. I am awaiting a decision from the police shortly as to whether they intend to take it to the CPS or not. If they do, they will be seeking a charge of statutory rape.

It may help you to know that it wasn't the more rare episodes of violent sex, but it was when I told the police officer about the times I would lie there and cry which affected her most. I would just cry while he got on with it and in the closing months of our relationship I challenged him about this - I told him that I would cry, but that he had obviously never noticed. He said 'oh no - I know you do'

I suppose what I mean by that is that the guilt, the pressure, the entitled attitude and all of that are what has screwed me up most. The violence was normal to me, so those times bother me less. But the constant manipulation is what stays with me.

You have every right to feel the way you do, and you have every sympathy from me. I also want you to know though that I'm good now. It has been an interesting couple of years, and there have been various men in my life - some good, some not so good (or at least, not right for me). It has been a tremendous learning curve and I'm now in a good place where sex is enjoyable and I feel I'm able to verbalise how I feel about sex. Counselling has played a huge part in that. Do seek it out as it is enormously beneficial, even if it doesn't feel like it in the beginning.

[TisILeclerc]

Apologies for the appalling syntax and grammar

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"I think I'd feel like a fraud "

I should think that's a pretty common thing they hear at Rape Crisis. It wasn't that serious, I didn't come to any harm, I could have objected more forcefully, I went along with it, I feel like a fraud.... etc Nobody here is saying you're a fraud and I think that, if you tell your story to Rape Crisis, they'll react similarly.

[TisILeclerc]

I agree. I equated rape in my head with men who force themselves on strangers in dark streets at night. Not with the father of my children. I wasn't treated as a fraud.

[pumpkinpie5]

Hi In the North

I found my counsellor privately. I had previously been referred to one through a GP but she wasn't right for me. Its very important to find one you feel you can build a good relationship with. Its definitely worth it and would second the post above.

TisILeclerc - I could have written your post. I was with my (abusive)ex for nearly ten years and very similar to your situation above. I have recently been disclosing things to my counsellor, and yes, it is the emotional side of things, the constantly being made to feel guilty etc that has been the hardest. Am on my own and think I will be for a while - still lots to work through, but great to hear you are in a good place now and can enjoy a healthy relationship, I was worried I would never get to that place but you have given me hope!

In the North - please do seek help, you may feel worse at first but I feel so much freer to tackle all these issues.

Good luck xxx

[InTheNorth123]

Tis, you sound so strong for reporting him. I hope you get the outcome/'closure' you want from it.

I'll definitely start looking at private counsellors. Do you mind if I ask what they charge roughly? I know they'll all be slightly different. My Uni have a counsellor so I think I'll go and see her when I start back at the end of the month as well. (I think we're entitled to six 1hr sessions each year).

Thank you Cog. I'm sure they deal with this a lot. I read some statistics about sexual assault and I think the figures were something like: 90% of rapes are carried out by somebody known the the victim. Rather than the stranger in an alley at night assault which most people associate with rape.

I actually bumped into a friend in the supermarket earlier, and she told me ex texted her on Saturday night (presumably drunk) to ask if he could 'fuck her'. Just sums up his whole attitude towards sex. It's something he does 'to' somebody rather than 'with' them. She seemed pretty disgusted and said that there isn't one nice thing about him. (She isn't the first person to say that to me since I broke up with him). I'm still not ready to tell anybody IRL, but I'm slightly more confident now that when/if I confide in somebody, they'll believe me. He is obviously struggling to maintain the nice guy act.

It does make me worry about my DS's future though. ATM he sees his dad in a contact centre for 2 hours a fortnight. (This is because his dad tried to commit suicide in February and has a long history of MH issues). I'd hate for my DS to grow up thinking his dad's behaviour towards his new partner/s is normal. That's what worries me most

Sorry for waffling.

[SolidGoldBrass]

North, so sorry this happened to you and yes, it was definitely sexual abuse.

As to your DS, in a way the fact that this ghastly man has demonstrable, proven MH issues will make it easier on DS - his father is mentally ill and behaves unacceptably is an easier concept for a child to understand than 'your father is just a shit.' (Even though he is a shit.)

[InTheNorth123]

Thank you Solid. DS is only 15month, so too young to understand ATM, but I'll try my best to explain, when he is old enough.

Supposing DS's dad took me to court to get unsupervised access/shared custody, where do I stand with regards to his behaviour? I wouldn't want him to have unsupervised access because:
A, he is an abduction risk. Parents live abroad in ME. No chance of getting DS back if he did a runner

B, if ex tried to kill himself again, I really do think he'd take DS with him. (Last time he attempted it, he wrote a cryptic FB status (yes a FB status!!) saying he was 'doing the right thing for his son' or something).

C, I don't want DS to be exposed to that level of abuse (direct or indirect)

D, I am absolutely certain that ex and his parents are narcs. Ex's parents were not nice to ex when he was growing up (so he says) and I don't want my DS to be subjected to that either. (They have displayed very narcissistic behaviour towards me. I think ex's parents are worse than ex actually).

I don't want to press charges against exp (only because the conviction rate is so low, otherwise I'd seriously consider it) so, in court, would it be considered hearsay rather than fact? I couldn't cope with the idea of pressing charges and him getting away with it.

Sorry I've gone off the topic. It's helping me to write it all down. I can see how much of a shit he really is.

[TisILeclerc]

Ok, you need proper legal advice. I suspect that if he is considered a high abduction risk that you could do something about that. Does your ds have a passport? I am aware that if you hold his passport then you are able to get the passport office to place a marker on his name so that another passport can't be obtained by saying it is lost or something like that.

As for the MH issues, are these well documented? Are social services taking it seriously? If so, you may well be able to extend the amount of time that he has supervised contact. Although, I'm not sure from your post whether it's full supervised contact (ie where a social worker has to supervise) or supported (where they are allowed pretty much free access in a room with other absent parents and children, vaguely watched by volunteers). I would suspect that if you fight, given the suicide risk and threat to your ds ss might favour supervised.

You can - to a point - fight to stop your ds being exposed to abuse. My dcs are now seeing their dad (apart from the eldest who refuses but is 16 so can do so) fornightly for two nights, to be supervised by either mil or fil (ha bloody ha). We will eventually move to unsupervised and there is very very little I can do about this, despite his continued emotional abuse of the children and me (when he gets the opportunity which is less and less), and despite the fact that he has admitted almost all the physical abuse I have alleged against both me and against the children. He has denied everything that DD1 alleged and has also (obviously) denied all the sexual stuff.

As for pressing charges, I can only tell you what happened with me. DD and I made our statements in early Feb. STBXH was interviewed a couple of weeks later. I delayed a little with confirming to the police that I would be a willing, co-operative witness for a few weeks. I guess this was because it was a huge deal for me - the thought of a judge, a jury and any onlookers including family knowing what that bastard did to me was enormously daunting. I talked at length to my best friend about it and she finally got me to do it by asking me if I thought he would do it to someone else. I still had that 'in a dark alley by a stranger' mentality at that point so said of course not, but she asked me if I thought he would do it again if he was in another relationship. Well, that's another question isn't it? Of course he will do it again because it is the way he works. He is absolutely convinced that he has done nothing wrong, so if he was in a relationship with someone he could control (the only relationship he would be able to form) then yes, I do believe that he would continue to rape someone else. I then considered how I would feel as I would almost certainly meet this woman as he (unless he fucks up in a big way) he will continue to see the dcs. If I knew what her life was going to be yet still did nothing, how would I feel? Pretty fucking awful. So I told the police I would co-operate fully and the rest is as I said. I'm waiting to hear whether they have sufficient material to take it to the CPS and then we'll have to wait to hear whether they will decide to prosecute. They won't take it to court if they don't feel they have a reasonable chance of conviction. If he is convicted it means a mandatory prison sentence of several years.

I think though (after this monster post ) that the essence of what I'm trying to say is get legal advice. And make social services your new bff.

[queenoftheknight]

This happened to me too. I also did not realise that it was rape until I was a couple of years into counselling, with the right counsellor too.

I would be guilted into sex. I know that he paid for prostitutes, he had a massive collection of porn on his, and my computer.

It was hearing our DS saying "stop shouting then" over and over again, as we argued about this, that finally did it for me, and I kicked his perverted arse out of our lives forever. I can still hear that little boy saying that in my mind..it makes me cry...it was about fifteen years ago now.

I would lie there and say..."fucking hurry up you bastard" whilst deliberately watching the telly over his shoulder, and refusing to move.

He did the same thing to his next wife...she rang me last year, out of the blue, and was in pieces.

This bastard works with sex offenders. I await his name on the news at some point, as his deviancy seems to be getting worse. I have kept the hard drive from fifteen years ago too...instinct told me to, so I did.

I continue to work very slowly through it all with my counsellor, and one day would love justice.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Have you never reported him queenoftheknight? Could you and his next wife (exW?) go to the police together? The case-load of historic abuse is getting a lot of traction at the moment so I'm sure you'd be taken seriously. If he's a sex offender responsible for other sex offenders that sounds like putting an alcoholic in charge of the pub.

[TisILeclerc]

Indeed Cog - it sounds like a really sensible idea doesn't it?

Queen all my allegations are historic. If he is tried and convicted I protect my dcs and other people from him. To me, this is the most important thing. I think the justice element is the other major factor. He will never admit that he did wrong by me and him being convicted would not either. He will simply think that I have manipulated a whole jury and then the sentencing judge (he really does think that I'm capable of doing that, the knob) but it will at least mean that justice is done. And his family will also have to accept that there are not two sides to this particular story, that he was wrong, that he is an abuser. That we are not both at fault because if that was the case, I would be in prison too.

[queenoftheknight]

I have spoken to my counsellor and my family support worker about it (family support because I am involved in current crap too, unrelated) Both feel that I am not yet strong enough. I am now in touch with wife #3, and could potentially be with wife #1.

That would be my ultimate goal....justice. I don't know if the others would want to be involved.

He should not be doing the job he does. Wife #3 is adamant about that.....I don't want to give anything away here, although I hate numbering us, it seems wise.

[queenoftheknight]

To add, the last time we spoke, wife#3 was divorcing him.

[TisILeclerc]

Then bide your time lovely. I have been accused of calling revenge 'justice' but it's not the same thing at all. Thankfully the laws in the UK are on your side - you have the luxury of time to heal and find your strength. I wish you all the very best

[queenoftheknight]

Thank you...and the same to all of us going through this.

I am aware now, that it has affected me much more than I realised. I have cried typing these posts. Probably a good thing.

I thought, in my core beliefs, that it was all I was worth. I do not believe that any more, and maybe I will trust a man again, but it will be a long time.

Much love and healing to all.

[LegoCaltrops]

I never told anyone except DH, who knows everything.

[InTheNorth123]

So sorry Lego.

I've still not done anything about my situation yet. DS is back in nursery next week, I will call WA then I think.

How do I go about getting SS involved? I did call them in February but they fobbed me off and said I needed to get a solicitor.