Is this what gaslighting is? And how do I get past it? (sorry, very long)

[newnamesamegame]

H and I have a pretty awful relationship at the moment, its been deteriorating for the past 8/9 months (have posted about it before ad nauseam). Main issues are, in no particular order: his drinking (moderate to heavy but every night), the fact he won't plan to do anything with DD and I at weekends, his social life revolves around a particular pub, the way he speaks to me which is frequently offhand and occasionally rude.

Only thing that is stopping me leaving is DD. He has been told in no uncertain terms that several things are dealbreakers for me (the drinking, the being out on both weekend nights without any thought for me and DD and the refusal to do anything at weekends with us in particular.) But because we have a DD together, I'm falling into that typical spineless trap of not being able to walk away until I'm 100% sure every avenue to improve things has been explored. I'm sending myself mad with inertia.

Anyway

He has made a recent attempt to get back into my good books after we recently agreed to separate (for at least the third time since Christmas), he has cut down drinking, promised to spend more time with DD and I and things tentatively had seemed better. But we still haven't really addressed the problems in our marriage and he is showing no signs of moving out. I felt we had sort of been drifting for a few weeks without resolution.

He came back last night after a very long shift at work and I said to him, basically "so, what's going on? where are we? we need to talk properly".

Admittedly, he was absolutely cream crackered so my moment wasn't perfect. But his response was, rather than talking about the big issues in our marriage, to berate me for not having a meal ready for him when he finishes work (in fairness, this is something he generally does for me when he can so not just back to the 1950s, although I do work full time so its not that easy). After we discussed this the next topic on the agenda was why its taking me so long to pass my driving test (he knows why its taking me a long time -- its because I work full time and don't get home until 7.30pm so its very difficult for me to schedule lessons in the week. By the way he doesn't have a license either), and why I don't invite more people round to the house for social events and whether this means I am ashamed of him (he never invites anyone).

It was just bizarre... I felt like he was just randomly plucking perceived shortcomings out of the ether to have a go at me about, none of which were in the scheme of things terribly important and none of which were remotely relevant to our current marriage problems. And none of which he has ever raised before in this type of discussion.

He does this quite a lot when we are supposed to be having serious conversations: will avoid talking about the issue in hand and go off on a tangent about something irrelevant and usually pretty trivial that he hasn't previously mentioned, where I invariably come out as the villain of the piece.

Is this part of an abuser's toolkit? or is it just low-level grumbling. A lot of this stuff about abusive behaviour is stuff I have read about for the first time on MN and I am in a learning process....

I have been really reluctant to knock this on the head until I know all possible opportunities to turn it around have been exhausted because we have a DD who adores him. But I am just exasperated by this.

[Mostlyjustaluker]

Why do you think staying together for dd would be better? It sound like he is not very interested in dd and it is not a fantastic environment for her. I am not staying ltb but I am just asking you think about why you think it would be better together as you are at the moment or separate.

Have you thought about couples counselling? We have done it before and it is not easy but for us it made a huge difference.

[Thumbwitch]

No, I don't think that's proper gaslighting - it sounds more like diversionary tactics to avoid addressing the serious issues in your marriage. It's showing a lack of maturity and an unwillingness to take responsibility but not particularly abusive, unless he's making stuff up all the time, especially if it's stuff that he does, that he's accusing you of.

He sounds somewhat inconsiderate and selfish though, and clearly has a problem with alcohol consumption that he's failing to adequately address on a permanent basis.

You do need to sit down and have a serious chat but yes, I think you picked your moment poorly - schedule a better time to do it.

[ivykaty44]

I font know about gaslightening but my teen dd used to use this sort of red herring decoy tact...
this is a grown man not a teen,

[BuzzardBird]

I don't think it is 'gaslighting', I think it is an aversion tactic. He feels you are criticizing him so he gets in there first by doing it to you. The way you approach serious talks might have to be altered. He has probably done this since childhood so you need to find a way of talking that doesn't put him on the defense.

Alternatively, you could kick him out and find yourself a grown up.

[BuzzardBird]

Cross-posted with thumbwitch there, sorry.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

It's not gaslighting. Gaslighting would be pretending something that happened didn't actually happen with the objective of confusing your sense of reality. What you're describing could be summed up as 'attack is the best form of defence'. He's trying to divert attention from himself by going for the 'never mind me, you're not perfect' angle. The idea being that you get distracted defending yourself and the original object of the conversation is forgotten in the process. I wouldn't call it abusive but it is annoying and immature. Correct response is to stick to the point and ignore the irrelevances.

Your problem, if you'll forgive the observation, is that you've threatened him that something is a deal-breaker but you have failed to follow through with the consequences. If you make ultimatums, you have to carry them out or you will simply not be taken seriously. Which is precisely what's happening.

FWIW DCs can be very damaged trapped in an environment where parents are openly hostile and unhappy. Separation presents its own problems but, if you can achieve two calm, happy homes, that's generally better for DCs than one where there is conflict.

[ravenmum]

It is similar to gaslighting, though, in that it can also leave you feeling confused as to what is going on, what your partner's problem really is, what is important or not and whether or not you have done something bad, nasty or damaging to your relationship.

[newnamesamegame]

Cog I know.... the problem is that the way it normally goes is that I will ask him to do something about the problem (usually drink related), he will push back for a bit then agree. Then everything will go swimmingly for a few days or weeks until he has a problem (work, low-level problem with me) and he will then throw his toys out of the pram and say "I'm not going to be told what to do in my house etc...." then back at square one.

Also he frequently is the one who initiates the discussion of moving out. He will say "I think its better that I move out," and I will go: "OK then, off you go." Then days later he will row back from it.

I am totally aware of the potential damage this could be doing to my DD. Incidentally we are never hostile in front of her, its always while she is asleep or out of the room.

I just can't see a way of breaking the cycle. I am starting to feel so trapped by my own inertia. I am starting to envisage how life could be quite good without him. I just can't actually bring myself to be the one who pushes the button on it.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

It doesn't matter than your DD is asleep or out of the room, unfortunately. The animosity is still present and it will infect the atmosphere. At the moment I think the 'trap' is not your inertia but your continued hope that he's going to change. Having been married once to a person with alcohol problems, I do understand what it's like to want the good times when they are sober to become a permanent arrangement. It rarely happens but you can waste a lot of time and energy threatening, cajoling, persuading etc. in the hope they will reform

The only choices before you are either to endure or reject. There's no middle ground.

[Nomama]

So you gave him a list of what you won't put up with...

... now he is making his own list!

Your OP did sound very one sided, my way or you are out. You say he shouts that he won't be dictated to in his own home. Maybe, from his perspective, you have taken a very high handed approach and he is trying to balance the scales.

That you haven't stuck to your guns has diminished your message, so he has no real reason to believe your relationship is where you think it is.

I am not saying that his way of sorting out his own social life isn't selfish, just that, from your OP, you both sounds as though you bumble along in your own lives and rarely connect and that, with very different actions, you both contribute to the space between you.

You need another perspective. Maybe counseling would be a good place for you to both try to get on the same page.