Can anyone give me their thoughts re relationship with parents?

[Nonumbershere]

Have name-changed for this and it's taken me a long time to post: fear of being identified, but mostly because I don't know what I'm asking. I think I just want to write it down and get people's thoughts as a bonus. Am hoping for some perspective on my parents. Am trying to keep this fairly general so I don't out myself - apologies in advance for dripfeeding/omissions.

I'm the oldest sibling. My parents argued a lot when I was a child-mostly about money or mum's 'behaviour' but there may have been other stuff too. It feels as if df was the 'driver' of these arguments although that might not be accurate. I can remember being terrified they would divorce and thinking df was having an affair

dm diagnosed with depression during her 20's. Had inpatient treatment when I was in primary school. I was not, at the time, told what was 'wrong', but was aware something was: dm often in bed, in tears and I was not allowed friends round. Found out diagnosis after looking up names of meds in library. I formed impression that her illness was to be 'hidden' and worked hard to make sure no-one knew all the way through school. I would create excuses, and micro-manage relationships and events so nothing 'upset her'.

df seems more outgoing / gregarious but openly embarrassed and exasperated by dm. Berated her publicly which upset and embarrassed me.

Fast forward to now: I'm much more open with people about dm but have found myself stuck with a 'script' whereby I have to protect her - from df's behaviour, which hasn't changed, and from other stressors. Saw dm and df recently where df was openly verbally abusive to dm whom he appears to see as 'weak'/'dithery'. It is 1) making me hate my df 2) making it hard to see them as can't relax - constantly arbitrating or worrying 3) causing me to feel v alone - I have faced a lot of issues recently but don't feel I can ask for or obtain support. I don't feel I can challenge df without upsetting dm and generally feel my relationship with them is v superficial. This has become v circular as dm now thinks I'm leading a charmed life/am a 'coper.' This is hardest to admit and Im ashamed to say it, but this in turn makes me feel angry, exasperated and embarrassed by her.

I once saw a counsellor (have depression & anxiety myself) who asked why dm was up on such a pedestal for me -her perception was that dm had allowed me to take on a parenting role.

I don't know what I want from this but it's helped to write it down. Sorry it's so long

[MarianneSolong]

I don't think the dynamic between your parents was a healthy one. It is sad that your mother was unhappy and unwell - but it does mean that she wasn't able to nurture you and protect you. It does seem as if everything is rather the wrong way round - where you are protecting her.

I don't think we have to love - or even like - our parents. Sometimes in order to look after ourselves, we may need to put barriers up.

Finding people who can value and nurture us may be particularly hard, if we haven't received good care from our parents.

But you sound as if you have a good awareness about the past and how it has affected you.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Your counsellor has it about right. You feel responsible for your mother who you see as a pathetic (in the literal sense) figure needing special handling. Your DF sounds like a bully and, whilst you may never hate him, I don't think you're under any obligation to like him. So you've adopted a fairly typical position for children of warring/dysfunctional parents which is to set yourself up as mediator, peace-keeper, protector (of younger siblings as well as DM) and yes 'parent'. Of course you can't relax, of course it's frustrating and, given that they seem very wrapped up in their own little drama, of course they're unlikely to offer you any support. They never have.

Depression, some will tell you, is what happens to people who are trying to be too strong for too long.

I would honestly suggest that you redesignate your parents as adults who have to deal with their own marital and other problems themselves. Put yourself top priority and see what happens when left to their own devices. Not the 'no contact' that some will suggest but simply take two or three big steps back.

I don't know how old you are, what stage you're at in life or whether you have family of your own but would you have any opportunity to do something just for your own pleasure and development? Education? Travel? Relocation?

[Nonumbershere]

I think I've got all this misplaced anger and feel a bit 'robbed' - I'm currently trying to ensure my own dc aren't affected by my mh issues and have a little voice asking why my dm didn't protect me. But I know how awful that sounds - believe me, Im the last person who would engage in that 'get a grip/pull yourself together' shit about people with mh diagnoses

[Nonumbershere]

Cogito your post has made me cry. It's quite cathartic even having this conversation as I've never dared say this stuff. I'm married with 2 dc of my own

[Nonumbershere]

Sorry, didn't mean it had made me cry in a bad way - just in a relieved way

[Lottapianos]

I had a similar situation OP where I was expected to take care of my mother. She would offload on me and my sister about how awful her marriage to my dad was. We were well trained from a very young age to put everyone else's needs before our own, with her needs being most important of all.

Like you, I have huge amounts of anger about this and have gone low contact with both my parents. I have been seeing a psychotherapist for the past 4 years and, while extremely painful, this process is helping me to get in touch with anger and sadness and fear that I have kept hidden for years. I'm getting stronger all the time but have good days and bad days. I find it helps to remember the acronym FOG - fear, obligation, guilt. That's the legacy of having parents like yours and mine. I find it helps to be able to name these feelings when they come up.

It's not your job to make your parents' lives better. Putting yourself first is a skill that has to be learned but you can do it. It takes time but it's so worth it.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I didn't mean to make you cry, sorry. The way I see it is that we don't get to choose our parents any more than they get to choose us. Some of us get luck and others are bound to end up with screwballs. As Larkin put it,

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had

And add some extra, just for you.


But they were fucked up in their turn

By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern

And half at one another’s throats.


Man hands on misery to man.

It deepens like a coastal shelf.

Get out as early as you can,

And don’t have any kids yourself.

(But let's ignore that last bit :) )

[Nonumbershere]

I have obtained some distance (geographically - sorry, still fearful of being identified!) but feel myself sucked back in in every tele call etc.

[Nonumbershere]

No, it's good crying, iykwim

[Lottapianos]

'have a little voice asking why my dm didn't protect me. But I know how awful that sounds'

It honestly doesn't sound awful OP. It's totally understandable to have that little voice. I have it too. My best friend has an 18 month old who is utterly delightful. My friend is a great mum to her - she meets her needs, considers her first all the time. Little one is very secure and happy and it's lovely to see. On the other hand, I find myself feeling jealous of her - of the baby! I can see the sort of parenting in action that I didn't have for myself and it hurts so badly. I don't talk to my friend about it and obviously I hide it when I'm around them but I do share it with my therapist. It's helped to forgive myself for feeling this way and to understand why that little voice is there.

[MexicanSpringtime]

As Larkin's poem says the blame doesn't stop with your parents, so it doesn't help. It is good to realise that they blew it with you, so that you can break with your feelings of responsability for your mother and, of course, not do the same with your own children, but the next stage will be to forgive them.

[doziedoozie]

I was described as 'the strength in a dysfunctional family' by a good GP.

The shame around your mother's illness is something that really affects you ime, it affects how you are with people, I find it very hard to open up to anyone (as you are brought up to keep a face on all the time so that others don't know the awfulness of your home life, or that is how you believe you have to deal with it as a child).

This contributes to you being seen as a coper - you aren't really coping you are just projecting this false face to the world of someone who doesn't get emotional about things.

But if you change your behavior, they will change theirs. I would speak up when DF is being nasty, just tell him there is no call for his nastiness in a no nonsense way, his behavior is ingrained probably but at least he can stop it when you are around. Tell him you've had enough of it etc.

And really who cares if this upsets your DM, she is playing a part, some pathetic soul who must be protected or something. Neither your DF or DM are playing good roles, if you do something to change things you are probably doing them a favour. (On the other hand they may never speak to you again but I don't think that is what will happen).

You are a sensible adult, try not to be manipulated any more.

I read these two books which helped although they may not be relevant exactly to your issues.
www.amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
www.amazon.co.uk/The-Dance-Anger-Changing-Relationships/dp/0722536232?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Nonumbershere]

Thank you all for your responses. Lots to think about - agree I need to set some boundaries