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It's OK to LTB(38 Posts)
Yes really it is.
I know sometimes we have tongue in cheek threads about partners and sometimes we have threads where one partner has pissed off the OP enough for them to need to turn to MN to let off steam.
However, there are many threads on this forum where the OP is being abused, they inevitably contain the gem 'He's a great dad' (hollow laugh- I told a police officer just that shortly after ex had beaten the crap out of me whilst I had dd2 on my lap, he'd managed to land several kicks on her too and didn't really give a rats arse he was hurting her...but you know he was a great dad ).
There seems to be this preconception on MN that we always tell posters to LTB, actually we don't, when posters come on here and talk about their cheating OH's the first call is never LTB, despite popular misconception there's always a list of suggestions and personal anecdotes including those who have come thro infidelity and have a stronger relationship etc.
Most of us take our cue from the poster.
However, there are very obvious threads where the red flags are flying at full mast, eg;
OP has to keep the house to show home standards of cleanliness with no practical help from her partner, is being constantly criticised for being slovenly because the house is not up to the immaculate standards of her partner (who does not do any housework himself)
OP is being told she should be having more sex as her partner wants it more and everyone else (according to said partner) is having more sex than OP is with her partner/ OP is accused she isn't initiating sex (enough).
OP has young children to care for and no access to money without partners permission, is financially beholden to her partner (he takes care of the money and works oh so hard).
OP worries about partners mood as he tends to be stressed from his job a lot and takes it out on her and the kids by snapping, shouting, being generally short tempered (I work full time and take care of two kids and manage the whole thing without expecting my family to pussyfoot around me, surely that is normal).
The OH threatens to leave OP if she does not improve.
OH tells OP he will take the children in the event OP dares to leave.
OP is looking for advice on how to be a better wife, but her OH has no need to improve it's her all her (according to her OH).
OP has nobody in RL to talk to/is isolated from family and friends, because her OH does not approve of them/feels they're not good enough/interfering etc.
In the above, you know something, LTB, you are a person in your own right, with autonomy over your mind and body. And you can live on your own very easily, because once you lose that dead weight everything becomes a whole lot easier.
Anyone telling a woman in the above situation to improve herself and try harder is frankly complicit in the abuse.
Useful numbers for anyone who wants to get practical help/advice;
Women's Aid 0808 2000 247
Rights of women They have several telephone help lines for issues.
I am fed up with the small contingency who ridicule anyone who dares suggest LTB on a thread, sometimes, it is the only solution, you can't make a relationship work by being the only one putting the work in.
Abuse is not only of the physically violent sort.
It is not normal or right to be browbeaten for sex, expected to be the household drudge, to have no access to money just because you do not WOH, to have to walk on eggshells in order not to set off poor hard working WOH OH. It so bloody well is not.
I'm going to work now but I had to get this off my chest.
<waves pom-poms for above post>
If your partner is abusing you in any way, shape or form, even 'mildly', it's ok to LTB. Such a simple and sensible message but so much antipathy in our fundamentally misogynist, man placating society.
In fact, it's OK to leave even if he or she is not a bastard.
Nobody should feel that they have to stay in a relationship.
If it's not working for you, then it's not.
And if you feel that you can't leave because you are afraid of the consequences, then one more reason for you to do it.
It is OK to hold a moody/VA/grumpy/EA/abusive partner responsible for his actions. In fact it is essential.
yes he may work had/be stressed/have had a tough rough imperfect childhood etc etc etc but ultimately he chooses how to behave towards you!!
Your P is a grown up - and just as you change/develop/grow as a person and move on from perhaps troubled younger years and poor upbringing, so can he. To think otherwise is to infantilise your P. He is an adult and he is responsible for himself. No excuses can justify abusive behaviour.
It may be hard and take a while to know this fact, for the penny to drop - but he is CHOOSING to treat you this way. And when that penny does drop you start to see things VERY differently. it is empowering and a massive step towards LTB.
<follows pom pom waving with a cart wheel>
I will add a quote from a Nº1 Ladies Detective Agency I was reading today, written by a man:
"'Why are there fewer and fewer gentlemen, Mma Ramotswe?'
'It is our fault, Mma. It is the fault of ladies.'
'Why is that?'
'Because we have allowed men to stop behaving as gentlemen, and when you allow people to do what they wish, then that is what they do. They stop doing the things they need to do.'"
Obviously it's the fault of the ungentlemanly men, but as a society and as women, it's sad that we are prepared to condone such bad behaviour.
When we, as individuals and as a group, allow certain men to get away with less than gentlemanly behaviour, they think it's ok not to behave as gentlemen.
Excellent post. Also this:
You don't have to hate someone or no longer love them in order to break up.
And do you know what - equally, it is OK not to LTB right away. I think there is some kind of perception that posters will be hounded to LTB now when they might not be ready or even know if that's what they want to do.
Unless your partner is already physically abusive or showing massive warning signs, then, no, it is not important that you leave yesterday. It's okay to take some time to work out what you do and don't want and how to go about things and whether you want to be there for the rest of your life or have a fresh start.
And there is always the EA thread for hand holding at any stage.
... plus, if you want to leave, you don't have to wait for your partner to agree that it's for the best.
Most divorces are started by women - is this because they don't try enough or because the man they are with doesn't try to change?
I think the latter. Women never leave a marriage on a whim. it takes careful thought, they consider everything from finances, to the effect on children and put themselves last. they do everything they can to change themselves before they finally realise it is their husband who has been in the wrong all along. then they try to change them and finally accept they can't.
All of this thought process doesn't happen over the course of one MN thread. these women have lived with abuse for many years before they get the courage to leave and to say they are being swayed by comments on a thread is ridiculous.
I was told to LTB 18 months before I did. But I was posting at that time looking for hope that things would get better.
I don't think anyone is going to leave a marriage on the basis of a thread on an internet forum either.
What really rankles with me personally, are the posters who all pile in to kick a woman who is obviously down.
Most times people do not want to be told they're living in a pretty horrific situation, but it goes a long way to giving the OP perspective when posters point out the OH is in fact BU not the OP.
What I find shocking is the increasing number of posters justifying really awful behaviour from the OP's OH with he works hard all day.
I'd reckon most of us work hard all day, it's no justification for being an awful human being to the partner you profess to love.
As posters have said, it's ok to leave a relationship, it's OK not to leave immediately if you can't and MN is an amazing resource to gather practical and emotional support and work out a plan to leave.
whatdoesittake. I still feel shock daily that he did not choose the option to change. I don't even think he knows he had the capacity for it, yet I stuck with him for years longer than I should have, all the while believing and willing this essential change to happen.
Sometime you just have to let go of trying to understand and accept that you can't. Someone you love acts in a way that is simply not understandable.
Brilliant thread. Utterly brilliant.
It is always OK to leave a relationship, if you would rather be out of it than in.
Well said, OP. & all other posters on thread, actually.
Lately I'm noticing more this thing on Miumsnet of 'H works hard all day/is stressed' being pointed to (should an OP mention) as not only a reason for his bad behaviour towards his partner and/or family, but as a justification. I find it shocking and sad, tbh. As if having a partner is the be all & end all hence wife must do all she can to keep harmony in the home - even if she's feeling anxious and unloved, and she & DCs are shitscared and miserable. I dont get it, I really don't..
Great post, well said OP.
Very good post OP. The received wisdom of society, family and tradition is still - sadly - very much geared around women 'making a relationship work' regardless of the physical or mental expense to herself. 'You've got to work at it', we're told. 'Take the rough with the smooth'. 'It's selfish to only think of your own happiness'.
If there are some on MN who say 'LTB' or want an OP to LTB immediately, I think it's a very small counterbalance to that tidal wave of RL misogynistic pressure. And if MN support opens a few eyes or gives anyone hope that there are other options to pain, self-sacrifice and a life wasted as a result, then it's very worthwhile.
Bumping this excellent thread.
Wifework is an excellent book on all this .........
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