Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
No one to talk to about this in RL so on here instead, AGAIN!!(53 Posts)
I seem to lunge from one crisis to another, NPD mother, difficult and challenging DC, bouts of depression and now an unsavoury episode with DH last night. Will write it all down as best I can as don't feel I can discuss with anyone in RL.
DH is particularly stressed with work, he has a difficult manager who seems to have it in for him. He has been approached about another role but is unsure to take it. I have recently been giving what I thought was helpful advice about how to deal with this person, one of the emails he bcc me into I thought DH sounded confrontational with said manager and I told him to tone it down and try and be more diplomatic when dealing with this person (manager is based in London and DH works in the region).
Last night, after spending a few days down there, he came in very stressed and upset. The DC had worn me down again with their behaviour but finally had gone to sleep. He was telling me about how manager was being difficult again and the potential client activity would be managed from London, not from the region with DH managing the London team. Obviously this would be totally unrealistic and I said this and suggested that he tells the manager to get someone in the London office to manage team. I think this manager is threatened by DH and wants to push him out by being difficult so my tactic is that DH should try and be amenable, call her bluff and get the manager to be more reasonable and see sense. Well, DH totally flew off the handle, accusing me of always criticising him and his ability and that why can't I just listen and support him when he is going through such difficulties. I thought I was by giving him some helpful solutions like I had with the email incident. He rounded on me again saying I always make life difficult for him and he doesn't need me stressing him anymore. This was wrong but I got on the defensive, and then did personally have a go and said to him if he is that stubborn and pigheaded to not listen to my advice, and that no wonder the manager is being awful to him, and that perhaps its not just me who has to deal with his difficult and frustrating attitude.
As I said, I'd had a long day with DC and so went upstairs to finish my ironing and had been feeling hormonal. He came upstairs to try and reason but I said I didn't want to talk and would he just leave me alone as I was feeling fed up. That's where the shouting and cussing kicked in, he called me some awful things and said he'd had enough of me and our marriage and just wanted out. He really frightened me with his rage and hatred so I just walked out and into the bedroom. I closed the door and not sure what happened but the door flew open and he came barging in with such hatred in his eyes. My head is a bit blurry on detail (due to shock) but I went back downstairs and sat on the sofa watching tv in shock, anger and upset. He very rarely gets that mad but when he does its frightening. One of DC woke up, probably with commotion and I went upstairs to soothe DC and then went back into our bedroom as I wanted DH to leave so that I could put DC in our bed and so I could stay with DC. He went and slept downstairs. I went down to tell him that he was a thug for talking to me like that but he just told me to go away.
This morning we've not really spoken other than about DC Saturday activities. My sadness and low mood has returned (been battling depression this last few months) and I just don't feel like doing anything today as I'm stll upset about last night. He has gone out now and I tried ringing to see if he really meant what he said. Apparently he just gets frustrated and I push him into these outbursts. Obviously he is stressed about work but that is no excuse is it? I was wrong to goad him but I'm not sure I want to do this. Feel like I've enough on my plate, everything feels so awful now, just want to stay in the bedroom away from everyone.
I cant believe how much I've written but I can't discuss this in RL. It's a relief to write it down. Not sure what I want from anyone reading this, just an understanding ear and support. Thanks
How bad is his work stress? If it is affecting him to such a degree then you need to talk to him about his managing his present position or changing jobs. A bit of work stress can quickly escalate into a lot worse.
You said but I got on the defensive, and then did personally have a go and said to him if he is that stubborn and pigheaded to not listen to my advice, and that no wonder the manager is being awful to him, and that perhaps its not just me who has to deal with his difficult and frustrating attitude For someone who feels totally undermined at work so that it is affecting your whole family life, this was not helpful.
I have a dh who gets very grumpy when he is stressed at work so I understand how awful it can be. I used to get all upset at the injustice of it but gradually realised it was usually worse for him and it was really hard for him to leave his horrible work situation behind. I did realise that having any sensible conversation with him when he is upset is pointless. I also have learnt after many years that dissecting an argument about who said what to whom when everyone was cross is also futile. This doesn't make me a doormat, well not much, but it makes us concentrate on the really important stuff.
You need to try and find a solution to his work problem and move forward.
.erm...no...HE needs to find a solution to HIS work problem.
Thanks irokurok, am pleased you have resolved your issues.
I say hurtful things usually due to the frustrating nature of his attitude and inability to accept criticism, it is my last resort when my reasoning has been ignored. I don't feel however that I need to have anger and agression thrown at me when I already feel vulnerable. I have just read a thread on EA whereby the counselling can fuel partner's bad behaviour. I'm going to suggest we go to Relate again but I think I will see the counsellor more on my own initially as DH manipulated everything I was saying.
I think I need to step away from the computer and have a lie down as my head and emotions are all mixed up. Spagetti head mess as you put lemondrizzled.
The work and stress situation - I was in the wrong in what I said. I will go back to not offering advice/keeping my mouth shut as agreed some people like to deal with stress in their own way. (Financially and in terms of job market he cant leave currently)
However I am still really upset that he turns every argument into a character assassination of me and that he doesn't realise how much his angry outburst last night scared me. He didn't apologise, and had no phone call while they are out to let me know that in the least that DC are having fun.
When he gets back I will probably end up apologising for my unreasonable behaviour and I will pussyfoot around resolving our issues to prevent another outburst from him, leaving me frustrated and moaning on here.
Thanks again for the posts.
Have a peaceful afternoon OP and good luck. I for one hope you don't apologise this time...you were only trying to help. And remember ' if you keep doing what you've always done; you'll keep getting what you've always got' . All the very best x
I don't think you need to apolgise at all. There is no need to be a martyr- and that's from someone who could make a fortune as aprofessional martyr if there was every call for one.
I think you could tell him you both could have behaved better but that his work stress needs to be resolved in order to avoid situations like last night in order for you all to move forward.
Good luck. It is hard.
loving is right that he needs to sort his own work problems, since that really is not your responsibility, but he does need to realise that taking it out on you isn't on even if you do accidentally say the wrong thing - you can't be expected to tread on eggshells the entire time.
I like poozlepants's suggestion of "[I think you could tell him you both could have behaved better but that his work stress needs to be resolved in order to avoid situations like last night in order for you all to move forward].
irukurok is right about looking also at your own responses too. You describe yourself as bored and depressed - I think that needs sorting as a priority as you sound very unhappy both in yourself and this marriage. If you feel better in yourself, then you'd be more able to see whether this relationship is something you want to work on together or whether you'd be better off leaving.
I do totally understand the leaving fears BTW - it was one of the things which kept me in my own marriage, so I'm not criticising. I do wish I had seen a counsellor back then - I was in a similar trap of reacting to things and then being made to feel it was all my fault. So I was in an anger/guilt cycle myself. With hindsight, I think we just weren't a good match and each of us brought out the worst in each other - we are certainly happier apart now and actually get on reasonably well over my DD.
Sorry now I am rambling! Just trying to say, get yourself help first, and then look at the relationship as a whole.
Thanks evryone, I took on board your advice, following irokurok advice of stating we could have behaved better, etc. Still no apology but that evening we were fine again.
Last few days have seemed to be ok, DH took yesterday and today off as sick and just rested. I'm ashamed to say when I got home, I did get a bit naggy and moody about something totally minor, naturally he got defensive and during our 'disagreement' this resulted in me calling him an idiot and immature/ childlike. Totally wrong I know and I'm too ashamed to tell you what the petty disagreement was about but I assume due to the stress and me being a nagging wife, DH once again flew off in a rage, threw a shoe at the door and screamed at me that he'd had enough and can't take this and started to cry. The DC saw this, obviously got distressed so I distracted them in the lounge and got them a drink before bedtime, I let them watch some tv. He then picked up car keys and went out.
I felt a bit in shock again after the outburst and managed to calm DC down before I took them up for bathtime and bed. I tried ringing but no response. During bathtime he came home, brought up DC milk drinks but I told him to go downstairs as I didn't want DC to be distressed nor me be near him.
DC fell asleep, and I got a text asking to read a note left on the stairs...basically I'm the cause of his distress as feels tied due to my anger/depressive issues, and he is at breaking point, he only wants to be a good father to his DC, we are not healthy for DC, etc.
I now trying to get my head around things. I'm not sure if this is really the end, I'm very sad that he is in distress and that I'm the cause, I thought it was work. I feel very guilty and shocked again tonight (Saturday I felt teary, tonight I feel numb and strange). If we split up, I would be very scared but then again, maybe it is for the best lightafire - tonight sounds strangely like your past situation.
I'm really at a loss what to think now or do.
Your counsellors job is to listen to your "crap" which by the way is not crap . You have a consellor, use her .
I think you need a break from each other right now. It is not good for the dc. You can't continue like this.
Has he somewhere to go ? Get some space and talk about it ina week or so after you have seen your counsellor.
Thanks cestlavielife, he could go back to his parents who live about an hour away, that would really cause a fallout though, his parents will hate me and think I drove him to stress, I have the impression they've always thought I was high maintenance which I'm not. I have had a good relationship with them, this will jeopardise that now.
He doesn't really have any single mates he could stay with, possibly will have to be a hotel or his parents. Or the couch, we are currently not talking, he is downstairs I'm up in bedroom.
Counsellor off sick with her DC so my session on Friday has been cancelled.
I'm feeling anxious about the fallout from this.
ThE fallout from staying in this situation could be even worse though than not taking action.
He has thrown a shoe
Scared the dc
Stay in the same house together and who knows wannat will be thrown next. (my ex threw shoes to start but it got worse and worse.. Please don't wait fr the worst to happen...)
Stop worrying about what they will think of you.
Someone is going to get hurt when the next item is thrown .
You or one of the dc,
So tomorrow ask him to go to his parents for a while so you can both calm down and reassess. So he will blame you ? Don't worry about it. He is stressed he will seek to blame the nearest person.
I think it would be for the best, I think I push his buttons at the moment. Although got sick pit feeling in my stomach about it all.
Time apart might help us reassess things.
I've just been downstairs, found him asleep in the dark on the sofa and suggested that he stays with parents...got told that he is leaving tomorrow, taking the tent and will find a campsite to stay and think about things. Can't help myself but said but why don't you stay at mum and dads and got told to leave him alone.
There you have it, DH is going to leave and become a camp dweller . I think we are agreed on the time apart/ splitting.
He really does sound like a stroppy, reactive, blaming arse OP. So when.you talk to him about both of you needing space he threatens to go camping? Why would his parents think so badly of you? Has he already primed them? I think you have got into some unhealthy patterns of relating with him, but I know you are aware of this and embarrassed by it. Some people cannot be reasoned with and we end up doing stupid shit to get them to wake up and smell the coffee. I think he has controlling and blaming tendencies. It will be good for you to have some space, even if it involves a lot of posturing on his part. Would you really be surprised if you split up and 3-6months down the line, realised that you are really not depressed at all, just struggling in a difficult relationship? It's not good to alternate between being blamed, and then threatened with abandonment OP. This man has issues.
PS yes you must talk to your counsellor and also explain why you have been keeping this to yourself!
kittybiscuits is right. Your husband has issues and you can't fix them. He has to do it. I think that means he has to be more proactive than going camping for a week but perhaps that is his space to reflect.
Getting so stressed that he is throwing a shoe and crying, is not healthy. He probably needs to see a counsellor or/and his doctor. However, let him make his choices as regards where he goes and what he does. I'm sorry you think that him going home will affect your relationship with your PILs but his need for somewhere to go trumps your need to shield your PILs from your relationship.
I'm sorry if that sounded harsh but I think he is emotionally abusive and I think you both having a break from each other is important. Talk, talk and talk to your counsellor.
Decide if, when and how you would like him to come back. Once you've both had space, you can decide if there are certain steps you can both take to put your relationship back on track, or if it is EA and how you disentangle yourself and your dcs from it.
Camping. Nutter. What he's saying is "I'm going to be cold and wet and dirty and smelly and I won't have nice food so I'll starve too and it'll all be your fault !" when he could so easily just go to his parents' place and be comfortable and well fed. Don't let him use it as a stick to beat you with. If he brings it up EVER, just say "You could have gone to your parents' but you didn't." Nothing else.
He is being extremely childish. He'll probably go to hisparents' anyway, and just try to look a bit dishevelled next time he sees you.
let him go camping if he wants to. just leave him to it. you are not his mother...
say "fine" "as you wish"
it sounds liek you do all childcare etc anyway on you own ?? so wont make much differnence to you... but get some friend/ family help in.
Whatever the stress (him) frustration (you), it was absolutely not a good idea for you to back the enemy.
Do you want a respectful but different perspective on this? I've got one, but I do hear that you're really down and I know myself that sometimes, I find it difficult to handle anything different to what I'm expecting (I mean this with respect and care)
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo you're not going to get anywhere like this! People are being lovely and supportive on here but they are not helping!
You're just backing each other into a corner
Quit the 'who's an abuser' stuff
OP, I reallly really feel for you. But look at what you're saying.
You're giving him all the responsibility for the shit
I think you do that because of your awful time growing up (just going on what you've said about your childhood here), where if you gave an inch, a whole bloody mile would be taken from you
But you don't have to do that now
You can take care of each other
I really do understand why you are demonising him
But it's repeating the cycle of cruelty that was started on you
You're just being cruel to each other now
Ok, I know I'll get flamed, so I'll leave it now. But I think there is something in this.
mydaytocleanthefridge - I am in total agreement.
Good morning, I ddn't get chance to reply last night. Thanks everybody for their advice and support.
After all your advice on here, I sent him a long text on Wednesday night (1am to be precise!) to say that we need some time apart, am happy for him to go camping and do whatever it takes to get his head sorted. I also told him that perhaps he should think about us separating for a while as we seem to be toxic for each other, damaging the DC, etc.
Yesterday morning we were civil to each other and took DC to school and nursery, agreed that we'd speak when we both got back. I could see in his eyes that he was really upset and when we sat down to talk about us as a couple, he burst out crying saying that me and DC mean the world to him and he will do whatever it takes to not lose that, get help, get back onto marriage counselling, whatever it takes, he was practically begging me not to finish things. I admitted I was petty and hotheaded to namecall but everytime there is a disagreement it's me that tries to change who I am and not him, and that I feel that he is being petty and immature also that I tread on eggshells when it comes to criticising him/giving him feedback. (thanks to feisty, kittybiscuits, jux and cestlavie and everyone else for helping me see that and explain that). I also said now is not the time to start the blame game and look at what we need to do as we both love each other. I also said that his violent outbursts were frightening and I finally got an apology and acknowledgement that it was very wrong.
He's not now going to go camping (he did admit that was a bit extreme) but did need some time to get his head together so this weekend he will be going to his parents for some thought time.
We've been getting on ok so far yesterday and this morning and things feel like we are back on track (managed to stay together in the same bed, with the youngest DC in between as usual). I am going to book the counselling sessions as we can't go on like this.
myturntoclean.. and keepacalm, I was a bit defensive when I first read your posts but then I realised you are right. I pick and pick at things until I get a reaction and sometimes I feel that I become my DM with her NPD crap. Coming on here I suppose I have painted a biased picture as I can be a real ungrateful cow too. The thing is, I at least recognise my faults, he really doesn't see (didn't properly before) he is wrong. It has been very hard to get him to see he doesn't always have to be right or so ground me down with his 'reasoning' that I become a child myself and lash out verbally.
I am also still aware that some of you have said this behaviour has hallmarks of EA, I've been there in my first real relationship before and I'm hoping that DH behaviour will change and that he is not that. I'm not sure what to think as for now we seem ok again after the frightnening events of this last week. Perhaps we should have a separate period for longer than just this weekend, but he doesn't want that as he says it will kill him to be away from us and the DC especially.
Thanks everybody for their posts, I really appreciate the help you have given me in my confused state of mind. I will be on here again as things are never straightforward. I will be seeing my counsellor in a few weeks and I will pluck up courage to discuss this. I have always painted him in a positive light we have never discussed these relationship issues so although it feels really hard to reveal the truth I will do it.
Sorry for the long post!
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.