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Told H I want to separate last week he agreed and now...

(59 Posts)
EdwardorEricCantDecide Mon 08-Oct-12 21:29:43

Now he won't move and says he wants to try again etc etc I've tried for 3 long miserable years! And now I've had enough
We own our house although its in negative equity, but neither of us will give up the house!
I really don't want to have to move to a council House and settle kids in a new area move DS to a new nursery etc but I now feel like he's forcing me to.

MrawMraw Wed 14-Nov-12 13:38:53

You can't claim as a single person because he would be contributing to the bills and any working adult in the household's income is counted in the calculations for tax credits. I'm not flaming you I have no interest in other people getting benefits etc, it's just the facts.

Do you work at all? (missed that part)

If you work 16 hours or more (or even if you don't work at all) AND you have savings of less than £6000 you may be entitled to some housing benefit and council tax rebate. Get yourself down to CAB pronto and they can calculate how much it would be you would receive. Then you can look at places to rent which would be within your budget.

You sound miserable, like you really want to leave him, it's affecting your health. I understand that, I have been there myself in almost exactly the same situation (Am 25, 2 DC, work, ex drank to excess and selfish also). I know the feeling of not wanting to "split up the family" but the thing is - It's HIM who has split it up by his actions anyway. What I did with my ex was remind him of that whenever he tried to lay a guilt trip on me - it was you by your actions which caused this I tried the best I could for years. I also reiterated to him that it didn't mean he couldn't have a realtionship with the DC (understandable even if they are a b**ta*d that they will be fearful of this).

Good Luck. x x

charlearose Wed 14-Nov-12 11:58:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MilitantMammy Wed 14-Nov-12 10:31:48

My situation is very similar to yours. I am currently seeing Mediator to sort out view to separating from DH of 20 years. I have been in Al Anon for 10 years. My DH has been in two treatment centres, I have been to group therapy for wives of alchoholics for 3 years and with all I know, and all the support I've had it is still very hard for me to stay focused how right it is to get out.
Do not underestimate how much work (mental) it will take to keep your priorities straight. Know this:
You are doing really well to see that your life it not good
You are doing really well to suspect your life will never be good while married to an Alcoholic
You are a good mother and worried that your kids will suffer if you leave - they may but it will be nothing to the suffering of staying, of setting them up to go into abusive, dysfunctional relationships when they are older
You will need an enormous amount of support - go to Al Anon it';s free and it really helps

You are married to an addict (and your husband is an addict- whatever he says or you think)
You are co-dependent - which means you will find it hard to make your own life and your kids life a priority. Stay as strong as you are. Put your kids at the centre of your life and let that guide you.

sassy34264 Mon 15-Oct-12 13:45:43

Hi ed Just found your thread.

Big hugs to you sweetheart. I know you are feeling down and emotionally battered by it all, but i do think you need to draw on all the strength you have and focus. You are being swayed all the time by his concessions, promises, ways out etc.

Think of it like stops on a tube train. The start is where you are at now and the end is where you want to be. Write down all the processes as the stops in between in order and do them one at a time. Head down, don't waiver.

Ie, CAB, Sol, House hunt, etc and do not listen to him or your mil and sil.

Do not even have a discussion with him. Pick some mantras.

'this is not up for negioation, '

'I do not wish to discuss this anymore'

'we have tried everything'

'i don't want to be with you anymore'

and keep using them over and over.

Treat him as if you are single- no washing, cooking etc for him.

He really needs to get the message that this is going to happen. He has swayed you so many times, he just thinks this is another one of those times.

pm me if you want to talk privately. x

olgaga Tue 09-Oct-12 16:12:56

You can call here for advice re your debts - they're a charity and very good:

www.cccs.co.uk/

Good luck x

EdwardorEricCantDecide Tue 09-Oct-12 15:24:58

Thanks very much. I'm going to contact CAB and debt advice people first u haven't yet read the long comment above with links and numbers will do this when kids are in bed and I have a lot more time to concentrate on it.

mentlejen Tue 09-Oct-12 13:41:53

Sorry you're feeling so low. It all sounds pretty grim for you.

While you might not feel you have the stomach for it yet, getting armed with information that's expert and independent won't hurt. And it'll give you options for whenever you're ready to make a move. And it might help you feel more ready to move your situation on. Right now, it sounds like you don't feel you have any options. Life might feel different if you know that there are other options and exactly what they are.. Debt advice and 30 mins of legal advice is all free so won't cost you more than the courage to ask for it.

Don't underestimate how life with him has changed your thinking. He'll tap and tap away at your resolve for this to be finished. For you it's over, for him it isn't. He's doing anything to buy time to win you back round and is making his life as easy as possible in the meantime. Living with him but not being with him will go one of two ways: a) you'll get back with him because it's easier and he'll be on his best behaviour here and there (but it won't last) b) it'll be horrible for you and pretty tense and difficult for your children and you'll be more unhappy than you are now.

If you're not ready to move on yet that's fine - one step at a time, but please don't listen to just one experience of legal advice and rule it out. And please don't let his parents or anyone else make you feel worthless. His problems are his. He's a grown up. Too much control? Please! If that was the issue he could well have said as much to you and had a grown up discussion about it. That's what adult partners do when they're parenting together. Sounds like you had to be the adult and parent while he cavorted around getting pissed and stoned. Only at the weekends.. You mean only at the time you all have together as a family? So that time meant a lot to him then...

Sounds like his parents are trying to excuse their son's behaviour without giving him ANY of the responsibility. That's bullsh*t.

Start valuing yourself, honey. You're worth more than this. Find out where you stand from people who really know what they're talking about.

olgaga Tue 09-Oct-12 11:52:57

You won't lose anything by moving out. You are married, there will be a financial settlement.

You will obviously need some money behind you and the money for a rent deposit, and you need to be clear about your benefits situation is. Benefits are there to get you back on your feet while you sort yourself out. You don't have to stay like this any longer than you want to. (See the benefits check above).

Give yourself a break, go through the information above, check your financial situation, make use of whatever real life support you can muster. Plan, plan, plan. Contact Women's Aid (link also above) they will help you with local contacts and information etc.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Oct-12 11:52:35

Does your RL support (parents?) telling you to stay know the warts and all version of why you want him to leave? Do they know about the drugs and alcohol etc.? A lot of people will advise a young couple to try again in the early years of a marriage. No-one should tell a young woman to 'put up and shut up' if they know there are serious problems.

Your aunt should have followed up her free half hour with the solicitor with another paid hour and got an 'order of sale' through the courts. Try not to treat her experience as typical, in other words

His family has no say in this whatsoever. They are only defending him because he is their DS. You have not made him smoke weed or drink alcohol.... that's entirely his decision.

The 'stomach for divorce' means 'courage to get properly shot'... and no-one's saying it's easy. But this half-way house you're considering with a manipulative, abusive drunk/pot-head living on your sofa will be far harder in the long-run. You're already crying and feeling sick. That's no life.

The main thing to accept is that this man is a selfish prick and he is not going to be reasonable, so stop searching for the magic button that will suddenly make him 'understand' that he has to accept the divorce and do his best to make him easy.

He wants to carry on living in the house and having his meals cooked and his pants washed, that's all. So ignore anything and everything he says, just smile politely and go about your plans ie see a solicitor, talk to the CAB and one of the debt management companies, and proceed as they all advise (whether that's a matter of finding a new home to rent for you and DC or obtaining an occupation order to force this man out of the house). You do not need his permission or his co-operation to get rid of him. It is not and never going to be a good idea to put up with a selfish and unpleasant man living in the family home - the bad atmosphere affects the children, and abusive men like this one actively harm the children, by lying to them and manipulating them and scaring them.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 09-Oct-12 11:50:13

I am really sorry you are feeling so bad, love.

It's no way to live sad

Would divorce really be worse than 30 more years (or more|) of this ?

There is no magic "cut off" when the children become "older"

GCSE's, another birthday, another Xmas you don't want to "ruin"

while you slowly die inside

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 09-Oct-12 11:48:08

we are not saying you are a criminal ! We are simply telling you that the route your husband is suggesting is not possible.

I think you need to cast your net a bit wider on the RL support front, tbh. What you are currently getting is shit, and being given by people with an agenda of their own/based on situations that are nothing like your own

independent advice is your way forward

EdwardorEricCantDecide Tue 09-Oct-12 11:42:31

All my RL support which there isn't much of are telling me that I should stay at least till the kids are much older. Understandably sometimes I have my doubts as to wether or not I am doing the right thing.
My aunt has recently gone through something v similar and she used her free half hour of solicitor advice then paid the solicitor to send letters to her ex etc the end result was a year of misery for her sleeping on my grans sofa and as he refused to sell their house or buy her out she's now back living with him miserably
His family are now saying that really the reason he's turned out this way is because I took too much control when dc were born. And that its me who's changed so I owe it to him to go to counselling etc.
I really don't think I do have the stomach for divorce certainly not ATM.
I'm sorry I know that I have been given support by some on the thread but to me it feels like everyone is telling me I'm a criminal/fraudster which I absolutely am not! I've never claimed any benefits other than CB and CTC in my life and have been in full time employment paying my taxes etc since leaving school.
Yes emotions are certainly running high ATM up until yesterday I felt happy thinking that he had finally admitted that it wasn't working and we could both move on. Today I feel stressed, I can't stop crying and just feel really sick.
My poor dc have had the tv babysitting them all morning sad

olgaga Tue 09-Oct-12 11:32:34

You might find this useful:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce – Advice and Links

It is useful if you can get to grips with the language of family law and procedure, and get an understanding of your rights, BEFORE you see a solicitor. If you are well prepared you will save time and money.

Children

If there are children involved, their welfare, needs and interests are paramount. Parents have responsibilities, not rights, in this regard. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It does not mean equal (50/50) parenting time - children are not possessions to be “fairly” divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (“Statement of Arrangements for Children”). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order - “Residence and Contact” regarding children, “Financial Order” or “Ancillary Relief” in the case of Finance. Information and links to these can be found in the Directgov link below. Residence and Contact Orders are likely to be renamed Child Arrangements Orders in future.

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don’t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation – there’s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don’t just stick with the first lawyer you find – shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you’re happy with.

If you can’t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law.

You can also find out about Legal Aid and get advice on the Community Legal Advice Helpline on 08345 345 4 345
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/Governmentcitizensandrightscontacts/DG_195356

Co-operative Legal Services offer DIY/Self-Help Divorce packages, as well as a Managed Divorce service. Their fee structure is more transparent and they have a telephone advice line as well as offering really good advice on their website:
www.co-operative.coop/legalservices/family-and-relationships/

You can read advice and search by area for a family lawyer here:
www.resolution.org.uk/

You will also read good advice and find a family lawyer here:
www.divorceaid.co.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients – Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. This can help by encouraging discussion about arrangements for children and finance in a structured way in a neutral setting. However, it only works if both parties are willing to reach agreement.

If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. This is important because while a Mediator should have knowledge of family law, and will often explain family law, they are not there to give tailored legal advice to either party - so it’s important to have that first.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:
www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights and issues around contact are further explained here:
www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown
www.maypole.org.uk/

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read – there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements – savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you have no access to financial information, or you are aware that assets are being hidden from you, then obviously you will not be able to reach agreement on finances. If there are children, as you cannot divorce without adequate arrangements being agreed on finance and children, you will have to apply for a financial order anyway. If there are no children, and you are unable to agree on finances, you will also have to apply for a financial order (follow the Direct.gov links below). This seeks financial information from both parties going back 12 months. So it is in your interests to act quickly once you have made the decision to divorce.

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:
www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm#7

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Parenting issues:
www.familylives.org.uk
www.theparentconnection.org.uk

Other Support for Women – Children, Housing, Domestic Violence
www.womensaid.org.uk/ and refuge.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 2000 247
www.ncdv.org.uk/ - Helpline 0844 8044 999
www.gingerbread.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 802 0925
Housing www.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown
(Note that there is usually an appropriate link on these websites for England, Wales and Scotland where the law, advice and contact information may differ.

mummytime Tue 09-Oct-12 11:20:29

You have got plenty of support, its just you don't seem to be willing to listen. Here it is again:
Go and talk to CAB, and get debt advice (as well as benefits tax advice).
Go and talk to a solicitor, you can get 1/2 hour or so of free advice, you maybe entitled to legal aid, if you are you need to act fast because the rules are changing soon.

People on here are not (or even if they are, it is an anonymous forum so you can't be sure they are) experts! You need proper advice.

People here will support you, but not to commit benefit fraud or act illegally.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 09-Oct-12 11:16:30

Erm, just a minute, you are getting plenty of support here hmm

CajaDeLaMemoria Tue 09-Oct-12 11:00:55

It would make your situation so much worse to start a claim as a lone parent with him still there. They'd come around, and check it out. It's far too suspicious. You can't be a lodger in a home you own, so he couldn't do it anyway, but even if he signed the house over to you he'd have to pay the market rent and that would count as income for you. They'd check where you sleep - sleeping on the couch would be seen as short term and isn't legal for lodgers anyway - where you keep your clothes, where he keeps his food... Then you'd end up owing TC money, and possibly being investigated for benefit fraud. Don't go there, however tempting he makes it sound.

Seek legal advice today. You can get half an hour free in most places. As you have the children, you have a good chance of being able to stay in the house, as far as my legal knowledge goes. If he won't leave, you'll need to start divorce proceedings and ensure you get what you are legally entitled to for you and your children. It might not be how you wanted it to go, but it very rarely stays amicable if someone behaves like a child, and that is what your husband is doing. He hasn't left you any choice.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Oct-12 10:58:44

When you don't know what to do, that's the time to get some RL back-up and then call in the professionals. At the moment emotions are running very high, it's difficult to think straight, you're on the back-foot making a lot of assumptions and you're writing off things that may or may not be possible in reality. The big danger is that you end up doing nothing at all and landing right back where you started with a lazy pot-head, drunk, whispering his own agenda in your ear, ruining your life and that of your DCs.

With some RL support - a friend accompanying you to meetings, for example - and with professional advice about legal matters, finances (debts/benefits), accommodation etc. you'll be better placed to work out what to do next.

EdwardorEricCantDecide Tue 09-Oct-12 10:51:58

Commuting = committing

EdwardorEricCantDecide Tue 09-Oct-12 10:35:31

whitecherry no I'm not trying to find ways round commuting benefit fraud!!
I've already said that if what's on this thread is true then yes ill need to find my own place if he's adamant that he won't move!
I came on the relationships board as I stupidly believed I might get some support through the most difficult time in my life!
Never mind eh [silly woman emoticon]
Up until last night I was under the impression that he was moving out! He then comes in and said he's worked too hard for house/family [confised] and won't move as he wants to make it work. I said I don't as I've taken his shit for too long! I then started looking for rentals for myself and realised that to rent a place big enough for me and 2dc would be a LOT more expensive than my current mortgage payments and that I can't afford it. So I now have to look at getting a council place, which may take a long time.
Then this morning he said why don't continue living together as friends get our money sorted etc and take it from there.
ATM I haven't agreed or disagreed to anything! And have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do moving forward!

Whitecherry Tue 09-Oct-12 10:19:40

You are either a lone parent or you aren't...., you can't be in the same house long term. You might have 'read' it on here, but that would be because it's temporary..... You are trying to find ways round committing benefit fraud!!

Gives us lone parents a bad name this kind of thing

I split up from my husband in march and applied for ctc and I.s. the same day. He slept on the sofa when he was at home for the next 2 months till he found a place. I.s took 7 weeks because they had to investigate as we were still in the same house. It is possible, but it's not easy.

cestlavielife Tue 09-Oct-12 10:09:22

He can't really be a lodger in a house he joint oWns and if you sleep on sofa but share wardrobe with him it won't work will it ? And it isn't a solution. Either he moves or you move. Moving starting afresh isn't so bad . Look at rentals nearby nursery . You can't assume you would get a council house either you would be intentionally homeless surely unless he is violent towards you and you flee to a refuge

EdwardorEricCantDecide Tue 09-Oct-12 10:04:37

Will have a look at the debt advice services today and look into solicitors.
I am disappointed because I really thought we could be more amicable than this and could manage without a solicitors. sad

EdwardorEricCantDecide Tue 09-Oct-12 10:02:00

NarcolepsyQueen do you know then is that's the "condition"? I don't have a spare bedroom but for the past few weeks we've taken it in turns to sleep on the couch so I don't think that would even e an option for me.

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