would you report it?

[wouldliketoknow]

i guess this is the best section for the question.
what do you think we should do as mumsnetters when someone tells us about a crime?
perhaps is our legal obligation to inform the police, specially when children are at risk or someone can't defend themselves, or munsnet must be a safe heaven, where people can talk without being reported, you know, when they wouldn't tell anyone.
what do you think? what would you like if it was you telling us something awful happened to you?

[scurryfunge]

If there is an immediate risk to the safety of someone then I think it should be reported.

Otherwise, if you are the victim of a crime, it is up to you whether you report or not.

[PeppermintPasty]

it depends what it is and what the question is being asked for, (if you can get to the bottom of that), but broadly i think things should be discussed and not reported, as otherwise people will not come on here seeking help. i know the thread to which i think you're referring, and my view is that the OP should deal with it wherever possible, (as she seems to be in that thread)

if everyone was reporting stuff left right and centre, how would that make users of this site feel? i wouldn't feel safe fwiw, which i know sounds like a contradiction, given the circumstances of that thread.

[PeppermintPasty]

also, what would be the criteria for reporting something? it's not often as simple as "we think someone's being abused". most of the threads on here are about some sort of abuse anyway, or strange behaviour. where would you draw the line?

[Hassled]

If someone posted about a crime - and that's happened way too many times - there's nothing we can do whether we want to or not; the poster remains anonymous. All we can do is urge the poster to get RL help.

[emmyloulou]

No I don't think people should report a "crime" here at all for several reasons.

The short time I have been here, this almost seems like a safe haven for some women, who can use the anonymity of the net to talk. That is important, it's less personal than a phone call. I don't think this facility should be put at risk, as it seems to help so many women.

Secondly the police couldn't really do much although in theory they could trace the IP, it's messy there will probably be DPA issues and I am sure it is not just that straight forward for the police to get info. So they may be reserved in acting unless they have good grounds. I mean lets be honest in a lot of these threads some crime has been comitted, be it assault, theft, abuse etc.

There is also the very inportant factor that this is the internet, no one knows what is truth or fiction, it's a shit stirrers heaven.

I have already seen grudges, stalkers, and trolling on here already. It would be easy to make a rape/abuse thread wouldn't it and leave markers to a person in RL, when they are innocent, or revenge, find out your DH has cheated and come here make up a story and knowingly drop hints.

It's entirely different to making a judgement call in real life IMO, when you can make a balanced choice and form a balanced opinion, on the net you can't.

[scurryfunge]

If there is an immediate risk, there are ways of doing something about it.

[emmyloulou]

But who is to judge what is an immediate risk? I would have thought the anal rape thread was an "immediate" risk as the daughter heard, no-one said anything about getting MNHQ involved to report it to the police.

If a man is beating his wife, that in an "immediate" risk. Where do people draw the line, many threads on here are "immediate" risk, there would be non stop reporting.

Plus who is to say it's all true, it's the internet. There are some right stalkerish, trolling types on here, who is to say someone could not come on here spew a load of crap about someone just because they can.

If women knew the minute they came here they may be reported you'd see an end to women coming here for help in abusive situations I can almost guarantee that, which would be a shame.

[VictoriasLittleKnownSecret]

If MN had a policy of reporting 'perceived crime' it would cut this forum's feed

Many women would be put off for fear of having a heavy handed response to their plea for advice

[scurryfunge]

I agree that no one would want to cut off people from good advice.

If I honestly believed that someone was about to be harmed and could not get out of the situation then I would do my best to prevent that happening.

I'm talking really about someone intent on committing suicide or harming their child there and then.

[SolidGoldBrass]

100% opposed to grassing people up. All you're doing is feeding your own ego at someone else's expense. YOu don't know whether you're responding to a troll, or to someone trying to cause trouble for a percieved enemy (go on MN pretending to be the woman your H left you for and make her out to be a child abuser with lots of easy clues as to where she lives...) - and if a woman is pulling together the strength and courage to leave an abuser, having police and SS on the doorstep prematurely is very counterproductive - she might well be forced into lying that everything's fine (because the abuser has threatened to kill the DC in front of her if she doesn't) and then be too scared to call for help on her own account in future.
Encourage people to get help by all means, but actually stepping in uninvited and grassing is a terrible idea.

[scurryfunge]

I think we are talking about immediate harm not stepping in when someone is experiencing domestic violence. Again, you never know the truth but you would have to judge each incident on its merits and try to make an informed decision.

It is not about "grassing".

[VictoriasLittleKnownSecret]

I agree wholeheartedly with SGb and I think that MN has it's biggest merit in empowering women to make the change themself.

Not waiting to be rescued

[emmyloulou]

You can't judge each incident on it's merits though, you only have one side, a very black and white side. Not really informed is it?

No knowledge of the op, the person being accused, if they are who they are making out to be etc.

How can someone be suffering domestic violence but not at risk of immediate harm I don't understand that.

It's all about interpretation of a situation, which when it is anon, in writing on the net could be waaaaaay out.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Oh FFS! 'Immediate harm' - by the time you've alerted MNHQ, strapped on your fucking BatBelt, tracked the IP, broken the Data Protection Act etc etc hours have passed anyway. This is not quite the same as hearing screams and thuds from the house next door and dialling 999.

[scurryfunge]

Data Protection act , my arse.

You can still do something if need be. Just because you don't give a shit about people SGB, doesn't mean no one else does. Don't be so nasty, just because someone disagrees.

[PeppermintPasty]

look, NO ONE in danger, IMO, would use this site if they thought their situation would be reported. it would probably lead to MN being shut down!!

[emmyloulou]

Scurry I really don't think you understand, it's not as easy as just MNHQ calling the police and they are around the house within 5 mins.

I think you are being way OTT scurry and it's postings like that that will scare away women in genuine need of advice and invite in the trolls for a little bit of Friday night action seeing the OW/neigbour/EXH carted away.

[scurryfunge]

Yes, I am fully aware what is involved in trying to locate a poster in order to check their welfare.

It can be done, it is not easy, time consuming and expensive.

This is why it should only be used if someone reasonably believes that someone else is in immediate danger.

The chances of this happening are few and far between. It does not mean that it should not be done just because it is difficult.

[VictoriasLittleKnownSecret]

Counsellors tell children everything is in confidence UNLESS they are at risk (so I hear the priniciple of the OP)


I suspect their counselling would be shot to pieces if they tagged it with 'unless anyone of several anonyomous/sometimes emotional/often with their own baggage/untrained' MNetters deems you to be at risk............'

[emmyloulou]

Safly, I would be shell shocked if anyone has or will ever post a thread like that and if they I did I would be even more shocked if it were not a massive trolling attempt.

There in lies the danger, SS/police deal with 1000's of malicious reports from neighbours/friends/relatives with grudges, it would be like a stalkers/trolls paradise on here. Not to mention moree than likely a huge watste of rescources.

If you believe someone is in immediate danger, does the fact that it can be done but is time consuming not flash up the very 1st hurdle to this idea scurry?

[scurryfunge]

I think child protection is everyone's responsibility not just counsellors....starnge post.

[ElitistBint]

Id like to know the answer to that question too saf.

There was a poster a while back whose partner was physically abusive to the dc, surely that should be reported?

If its children that are being harmed (according to the poster posting) shouldn't something be done then?

[scurryfunge]

Yes it is a hurdle emmy, it just doesn't mean we should ignore.

I am not comfortable with the "do nothing, it's grassing up " brigade. That is the attitude that protects abusers.