Do women trade sex for love?

[rednosedays]

Okay I am starting a new thread as I did not want to hijack NJ's thread with discussions about rape and there were responses from a couple of people that I wanted to reply to.

I suggested that without a little bit of manipulation or coercion teenage boys would find it quite difficult to get laid. At least that was how things were way back when I was a teenager but perhaps things have changed.

In my mind I was thinking along the lines of: I will always respect you/I really love you/You are gorgeous/You are the only person for me etc which, in my very humble opinion (but perhaps I am just old and cynical or got it all wrong) were used by members of the male sex in order to get into a female's knickers. I KNOW women can do these types of things to, but in my humble opinion, it was more difficult for a teenage boy to get laid than vice versa.

The female, being susceptible to flattery and (hopefully) fancying the boy (and maybe hoping that he would fall in love with her or whatever) would agree to sex even though there were risk factors eg: she might get pregnant/he might have been lying about how he felt just to get her into bed/he might go around telling all his friends that she was an easy lay etc etc. She might genuinely have feelings for him whereas he might just be pretending.

Okay I was a teenager quite a long time ago and hopefully things have changed (but judging from the discussions that I have heard from my teenagers and their friends they have not changed THAT much).

Just want people's thoughts on this.

This is going to be a very interesting thread!
Watch out for fireworks.

Are you asking about teenage behaviour- or men and women's behaviour?

I suspect there are men and women, and boys and girls, who say things that are insincere in the hope of getting laid. I have been told by men that it is harder for men to get laid than it is for women as there are always plenty of men sniffing around a half-passable woman.

As a teenager- ages ago- my parents tried to instil in me the notion that boys will say anything to get you into bed. This was tue at times but made it hard for me to decide which boys, and then men, really cared for me and who had silver tongues.

My parents' generation had an even different beliefs; my father believed very much that marriage was the price men paid in order to have regular sex.

OP I don't think there is a simple asnwer to your question. It assumes that women are gullible and vulnerable and that they are submissive or passive when it comes to sex. Some women are, but ther seem to be plenty on MN who are happy with 1 night stands and are not looking for declarations of love in order to frop their knickers.

frop? Sorry drop!

Some women do, I'm sure. Assuming that all women do, though, assumes that women don't really like/enjoy sex, and only put up with it for a man's benefit. Which is complete bollocks, of course.

When people are older I think different criteria apply. I can think of one example among a wider network where the teenage girl had sex with a boy, who then decided it would be a good laugh to stick up details on facebook. Of course the boy was an idiot, but that was not much consolation. The girl's parents then tried to pull the rape card which of course failed dismally. However badly the boy had behaved, the girl had consented to sex and in the eyes of the law there was no case. This got me thinking about how I would react if it was one of my own children. In this particular instance the girl had obviously lacked judgement (ie had sex with a boy who was an idiot) but if it were my daughter I would blame myself for not having educated her enough to act with discernment when it came to sexual partners.

I think a young, possibly foolish and certainly inexperinced teenager will say all sorts to try and get his end away. He is learning and maturing. An adult however should know better.

job lots of men don't know any better though- and I even believe that many men are momentarily sincere when they say those things- they are deluding themsleves as well as the woman.

well, the first time i had sex (quite late i guess at 17) it was because i was randy as hell and had hormones flying and i thought he was the sexiest man alive.

that's what made me decide that using a condom would just have to be protection enough and take the risk of it not working.

i don't believe that boys have stronger urges than girls or that girls don't want sex themselves. i find that a very old fashioned idea actually.

actually, the sexual urges and apetite i had between the ages of 16 and 21 were like nothing i have known since (and i have a good sexual relationship with my current husband to be) - at that age your hormones are in overdrive, which i suppose makes sense as it's a good time biologically for a young woman to concieve.

I think girls want sex just as much as boys. I think thet flattery or wooing is quite a natural prerequisite to sex and both parties are happy. Flattreing someone may be manipulative but it isn't coersion.
Compare this with my abusive ex who used to beg me to have sex with him when we were 16. God knows how he managed to get me to his room in the first place and god knows why I let him shag me. I didn't even fancy him! pressure and my weakness I guess.

Dogfish i think your answer was excellent and spot on.

Dogfish - I like your answer too! Sex and sexual attraction are hard currency.

Fluffles - I completely agree that women probably have as strong sexual urges as men. But I would suggest that the average 16 or 17 year old boy might be a bit of a disappointment in this respect.

And I would argue that a woman still has potentially more to lose from a sexual encounter because:

a) she could get pregnant - and the responsibility for this would still primarily lie on her shoulders (or at least she might be the one who feels the greater sense of obligation) with ALL that this entails.

b) there is still a double standard applying with regard to male/female sexuality. A reputation can be quite important so what is a conquest for one person can be a humiliation for another.

"I think girls want sex just as much as boys. I think thet flattery or wooing is quite a natural prerequisite to sex and both parties are happy. Flattreing someone may be manipulative but it isn't coersion."

Definitely.

Some people trade sex for love, not just women. By intimating that only women do this you are making it sound as if we are gullible weak little creatures who have to use sex to get what we want.

I agree with PollyPoo. It's not just women. Men are just as susceptible to flattery. Indeed we should leave gender out if it.

God how depressing that some people still think of sex as mainly a one way street, something only for the benefit of men , or a trick that women use to get what they want .

I thought that the misogynistic myth that women have to be subtly coerced into sex because women don't really like or want it, was truly dead and buried.

In my view there are still double standards applying with regard to male/female sexuality. If you are a parent of teenagers, you are aware that some of those tired old stereotypes exist. This is not suprising when you think that the parents of those teenagers grew up in an era when there were quite rigid gender stereotypes.

I personally find a lot of men of my generation hideously chauvenistic, so it is not entirley suprising that some of those attitudes will rub off on their children.

Mal, just musing over something - I wonder how many women use prostitutes? I mean, rightly or wrongly it is a massive worldwide industry but I am curious as to how many women use the service as compared to men? Just thinking out loud really.

Which kind of ties in with what dogfish is saying: how many women want to have just sex with nothing else attached at all? How many would be prepared to pay for that? I am sure some do but I guess in general women want a few other things thrown into the pot as well.

Hardly any, rednose.

Fucking hell, people.

Those of you who are all "this is the way it is", you do realise that you are actually teaching your teenagers the horrendously inaccurate, sexist principles that you're discussing, right?

Women have sex for the sake of sex. We enjoy it just as much as men. The reason that we don't blatantly go out and grab it, largely, is because of the widespread slut shaming that's rife in society. So you set up a system where a woman will insist on dinner, etc., so as not to be thought of as easy.

Fucking hell, evolutionary biology indeed. Are you bringing out that old canard about it making sense for men to spread their seed and women to seek security? Utter bollocks. Most early societies did not feature monogamous domestic units with a protector-male, they featured communities - largely of women - who stuck together and collaborated for food. Man as protector of the family unit is a myth. If you want to talk evolutionary bollocks biology, it makes far more sense for women to screw as many men as possible to ensure the strongest genetic material wins, and to give as many men as possible a reason to want to protect her pregnancy, in case it's genetically linked to them.

Sorry, "hardly any" was about women using prostitutes.

In answer to your other question about women having sex with no strings attached - well, I like it that way, but it's awfully hard to find. Men kept proposing to me, I found.

Dogdish said..If men could get laid casually as easily as women can - i.e. if sex was on tap - there'd be no marriage, or a lot less of it. Most men only get married because it's the only way to stay with a woman with whom they are having regular sex. Women aren't fools in this and are often very good at getting a good deal.

So my dad- now 84- was right all along?

When I was a teenager he gave me the impression that if I held out long enough, a man would marry me just to get into my knickers; if I "gave in" then why would he want to marry me ever, as he was getting regualr sex anyway, given (Dad's ideas) that men are not naturally monogamous and are commitment phobes.

I disagee with it all, as sex is only part of a relationship and believe it or not, some men want you for your mind as well as your fanny.

I know amn whose marriage has ended and he is adamant that he doesn't want any commitment soon, but he most definitely wants sex. He's put himself on a dating site saying he likes to take his pleasures when he can...pretty obvious what that means. Is he deluding himself? Reading MN forums ther seem to be plenty of women who are happy with a) 1 night stands and 2) casual relationships .

Sorry, dogfish, as a guy are you honestly being serious that "most men only get married because it's the only way to stay with a woman with whom they are having regular sex"?

I mean seriously, today, in 2010? I mean, that is just an insane thing to say, not to mention so derogatory towards men overall that I'm gobsmacked. Are you honestly saying that men get married to have regular sex? Nothing to do with commitment, companionship, happiness, wanting to be a family, friendship. Good grief, to people really think that? Do all the DW's out there on MN really think that their partners married them so they could get a regular shag?