Vendor's solicitor is a complete arse

[TremoloGreen]

Any advice for me? We are desperately trying to buy a house before DC2 makes an appearance. In a chain of three, we're the only ones with a mortgage. Everything is ready and OK, except the vendors have never registered their property with the land registry (they've lived there over 40 years). They need to make a first registration before our lender will agree to the purchase. I realize normally it can be done afterwards, but there is a slightly non-typical situation with a right of way which is why they need to do it. Their solicitor thinks they should refuse to do it (I have no idea why, othher than he is trying to avoid doing more work).

We have explained to them really carefully why they need to do it and they were happy to. They went to their solicitor and said they wanted to do this, but he managed to (perhaps deliberately) misunderstand them and basically just took a statutory declaration about the ROW from them and send it to our solicitor rather than process the registration himself. I don't think they really understand the situation. Their solicitor is now not replying to any communications from the estate agent or our solicitor. he even went on holiday for a week and didn't bother to leave anyone in charge of the case, even though he knows there is a deadline of 7th November. It will take 2 weeks from whenever the registration is done for our lender to process it, so we have a really tight deadline now.

Other then go knock on the vendors door and beg them to campaign their solicitor to do his job, I don't know what to do. We offered them a 5k incentive to complete by our deadline but they seem very relaxed about losing 5k (and/or possibly their sale if our mortgage offer expires and I can't get another one while on maternity leave).

[lalalonglegs]

Whenever I've been in the position of a vendor's/buyer's solicitor not doing what they're meant to, I've asked mine if he can do the work on their behalf (at my cost) just to get the process moving. Frustrating but it might be worth asking your solicitor if he is able to help with any of the paperwork or at least send a (very pointed) letter to the vendor's solicitor explaining exactly what needs to be done in order to complete this task.

[Spickle]

Who decided that the deadline was 7th November? Is this your preferred date because of DC2's imminent arrival? Unfortunately, whenever there is an issue at Land Registry, it won't matter to them when your deadline is, it will take as long as it takes.

Throughout your OP, you don't mention what your solicitor is doing about the first registration, only what the vendor's solicitor is not doing. Of course the vendor's solicitor will try to get out of doing the work - he is representing his client and trying to save them money and his time. First registrations are not uncommon - it's only since 1997 that all transfers of property have to be registered, so there are still many properties unregistered. Your solicitor should be insisting that the vendor sort this out, after all your solicitor works on behalf of your mortgage lender as well as you. If your lender demands the property is registered before completion, then that is what your solicitor needs to do.

[mandy214]

And you still have more than 2 months?!

[TremoloGreen]

Sorry, our solicitor has repeatedly pushed theirs to do the first registration and explains that as she acts for the lender as well, she cannot proceed any further until this is done. She also reiterates that his delaying will probably cost them 5k, or even the sale. The EA does the same.

We all agreed the deadline of 7th November back in early July. This is based on a) baby's due date and b) when our mortgage expires for porting purposes, hence us having an extra 5k [early repayment fees] before this date. The issue of the first registration arose at the beginning of August and our solicitor first asked for it then, but theirs has been worming his way out of it for over a month. I tried to explain the situation directly to the vendors over two weeks ago, and they spoke to their solicitor the next day but still no movement. Like I said, I don't think they really understand the situation.

I am fully aware that the Land Registry don't care about our deadline.

I suppose I will go with lalalongleg's suggestion if we still don't hear any response tomorrow, although I don't know if this is something our solicitor can really do.

[marzipancustard]

I doubt your solicitor would be able to do the registration on behalf of the vendors - it would require the vendors becoming his clients & could be very faffy! But that's beside the point - the vendor's solicitors should be doing it! Definitely push the vendors to chase their sol - explain it to them in simple terms.

I agree time is of the essence - first registrations can be time consuming & the land registry might be busy.. so speak to the vendors asap to get things moving! Good luck.

[TremoloGreen]

Gahhh! I have left increasingly hysterical messages with everyone today and yesterday. Have had zero sleep aat the thought of still being in this hell-hole of a rental when baby arrives but looking increasingly likely. EA seemed to think it would take two to three weeks, which might be OK if it got started this week, but I don't know what she's basing it on anyway.

[mandy214]

I think you need to calm down (for you and the baby). You will alienate everyone by pressurising them with hysterical phone calls - it won't help. I'd ask your H to get involved and to push it.

[Spickle]

It took me three months to get a piece of land registered at Land Registry and that was expedited (Xmas did delay matters a little). So, although it "might" be done in 2-3 weeks, I do think that is optimistic. My buyers also couldn't proceed to purchase without me getting the registration as their lender also refused them a mortgage unless it was done.

The EA actually doesn't know much about the legals so please don't rely on their advice, it will be between your vendors/their solicitors/Land Registry to sort out.

You, will not have much influence over it apart from contacting your own solicitor for updates. It may be expedited because of your deadline with the mortgage lender but you have far more leverage over the vendor before exchange and completion. You cannot sort this out afterwards if your lender won't give you a mortgage. I am sure the vendor's solicitor is putting pressure on the vendor to pay for the first registration, but if they are unwilling then their solicitor can also not proceed until he has their agreement. Rest assured they cannot sell to anyone until this is done.

[mummytime]

Or the other possibility is too look at other properties - and maybe even make it clear to your Vendor's that you are doing so - that might speed things up.

[TremoloGreen]

Hi thanks all. I don't think the cost is going to be an issue, we are talking £200 on a transaction to the tune of half a million. The vendors did want to do the registration, it is just that their solicitor keeps telling them they do not need to, so he isn't going to do it.

There's not much point us looking elsewhere - small village, properties in our price range come up a few times a year, and no hope of completing on anything else before Nov 7th anyway.

Apparently the senior partner of the estate agency knows both solicitors very well (small town) so is ringing them both today to find out exactly what the issue is and agree a way forward. Although this is apparently what our solicitor has been trying to do for weeks.

From the PP saying this took her three months, I guess that is the worst case scenario and I should get prepared for it in case it happens. I might take DD to my parents' place around my due date and plan to have the baby there if it looks like we're still months away. I just feel so sorry for DD as she has already had so much upheaval relocating and moving to temporary accommodation already.

[TremoloGreen]

Update: we have offered to pay, in case that is the issue (if it is, it hasn't been communicated). We are waiting to find out tomorrow if this is acceptable to their solicitor... apparently he has said we need to find a new solicitor or he will recommend to the vendors that they find a new buyer (!) They are very led by him (changed surveyor etc on his say so) so it looks like we're hanging by a thread again... we've already had two purchases fall through

[Bohemond]

Your EA needs to get properly involved. The house is virtually unsaleable without the registration.
We had a similar situation but it was on a piece of land acquired and being sold as part of the purchase that had not been registered. With all parties working together it took just over 3 weeks to sort.

[TremoloGreen]

The EA is involved and spent over an hour talking to their solicitor today. The problem is I think he half convinced her that he doesn't need to do the registration. She's not a legal expert.

My understanding (we also had a ROW with our last house) is that this is a requirement of the mortgage lender, and that is also what our solicitor is saying. The EA should talk to our solicitor tomorrow, so hopefully she will come away understanding that the house is unsaleable without and can communicate that to the vendors, I think that's our only hope really. The biggest problem is that nothing is being communicated to them and/or they don't really understand the issues so they just do whatever their solicitor says.

If a solicitor told me I need to find a new buyer because he doesn't want to do something, I would find a new solicitor! But I don't think it will be that simple for them...

I am happy to throw whatever money at the situation we need to now as we have already lost a fortune on aborted purchases and house prices rising.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

What you need to do is get your lawyer to and a letter to the other lawyer in idiot terns setting out what needs to be done and why. Enclose a draft registration form with it.

Then the solicitor should attach a covering letter to the idiot's guide and say to the other solicitor that you wish the letter and draft form to be passed to the sellers. Make sure it states in the letter that if the registration form is not completed and lodged within say 7 days, you will withdraw from the purchase. You need to as the house is not saleable to you (as a non-cash buyer) without the first registration. So you may as well be in charge of the process.

Make it clear in the letter that you also want an all parties meeting to discuss (ie everyone attends with their solicitor) to discuss and resolve any issues. It's much harder for twatty soliciters to give duff advice then

There's no problem with your solicitor providing a draft form to the other solicitor to provide advice on. What cuddly happen (due to conflicts) is your solicitor acts for you, the lender and the seller in the matter of the first registration

Your solicitor should be able to deal with the other solicitor - it's part of the job unfortunately. However, if you feel they are not up to suitably doing so, ask to speak to the partner managing the transaction for advice (am assuming the person dealing is not a partner, which would be unlikely)

[TremoloGreen]

Our solicitor is a partner - it is a small family-run company, run by her and her husband.

I am annoyed with our solicitor as well now, as looking back through the correspondence, she has never supplied the explicit reason why this is necessary. Perhaps she assumed that their solicitor would know, but he clearly does not and has now convinced the sellers and their EA that we are asking for somehting unnecessary and delaying the sale.

Helpfully, their solicitor has now gone on holiday again without telling anyone, but is back Tuesday.

EA has somehow managed to get his secretary to prepare all the paperwork so it can be signed off by him on Tuesday with us agreeing to pay. However, because doing this registration will bring us so close to our completion deadline, I can see that he will still refuse to sign it off if our solicitor has not supplied the explicit reason for doing it.

I am so annoyed with her as well now, she does not have a free apointment to discuss this with me today, so I have outlined everything by email that we need, no response yet. The EA is going to try and speak to her again today.

I would change solicitors if I didn't think that would delay things further, and also in my experience with other sales/purchases, they are all very poor at communicating, once they think they are right about something. I can't guarantee that we won't just meet this situation again.