Moving sets in year 1/2

[ncom]

Hi

This is my first post on the forum. Apologies if this is already discussed.

I am very concerned about dd's future.
Here is some info,

1. She moved schools (across countries) and was placed in yr1 in the current school.
   
2. She did not do reception (straight from nursery to yr1)
   
3. She is summer born (end of August - 2 weeks preterm).
   
   Recently I cam to know there are 5 sets in primary schools. In theory, sets are very fluid and children should move to the next as soon as they are ready, however, in practice the movement is very restricted - source of info - www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article3941602.ece
   
   ( plus some friends, other parents etc)
   
   I am really worried -
   
4. Will she be stuck in the same set for whole of her primary ?
   
5. Will it continue in secondary (as the schools get reports from previous schools)
   
6. Will she have limited access to learning ?
   
7. Do they have two tiers for yr2 SATS (foundation and intermediate)?
   
   When I sit with her for her studies I noted the following -
   
   
8. Numeracy - bought her the abacus work sheets. She completed all the three yr 1 books in two weeks. Doing the shape, space and measures book now. Plus, started with yr 2 book 1 (half way through). She knows her times table for 2,5 and 10. Addition(2 digits), subtraction(1 digit). Learning multiplication and division now.
   To me, this seems to be a reasonable achievement at the end of yr1 for a 5yr old.
   (Definitely don't want to stretch more)
   
   
9. Literacy -
   a) Reading - reads CVC and CCVC. ORT stage 4 books comfortably. Working on stage 5 and 6.
   www.oup.com/oxed/primary/oxfordreadingtree/chart_2010/
   
   (songbirds phonics series)
   
   b) Writing - Can write up to 10 sentences in a clear legible way (all joined). Creatively, can write up to 5-6 sentences with punctuation (full stop at the end, capital letters for nouns and at the beginning sentence, question mark if there is question in the sentence, working towards commas and exclamation marks now)
   
   (I am not if this is adequate for level 1 at end of yr1 ?)
   
   Looking at the above things I would have expected her to be in the average set if not in the top two.
   
   Am I setting wrong expectations ? I didn't study in the UK so I have no idea of UK education please some one enlighten me on this ?
   
   Many thanks

[Musicteachingmum]

Don't panic! Most primary schools are not that rigid. In my experience, I have seen children move sets, sometimes even two sets or more, depending on their own personal rate of development. ie. a child may not develop very much one year as they have hit a plateau, but the next year they progress really well.

Best thing to do is to book an appointment to discuss your concerns with the teacher - hopefully they will be able to put your mind at rest. Again, in my experience, primary schools are very welcoming of parents.

[Runoutofideas]

It sounds to me like she is doing well for her age. I wouldn't worry about it, but chat to the teacher early next school year if you have concerns once she moves classes.

From my experience children in the lower groups seem to get more small group attention. I volunteer in my dd's reception class and I am always asked to work on numeracy with children from the two lower ability groups. They have progressed hugely over their reception year, so I don't think she will suffer from "limited access to learning" whichever group she is in.

[redskyatnight]

The numeracy and writing would put her in an "above average" group in my DS's year 1 class. Reading would probably be average.

[disclaimer - I am not a teacher - this is from observation of my DS and his classmates]

Possibly because your DD has moved schools (did she move from an English speaking school?) she has been put in a slightly lower set while the teachers assess her fully. Also the style of learning/teaching may be different so she is having to adapt to it.

IME the groups are pretty fluid but tend to change at "fixed" times like the end of term rather than on the fly. I'm sure her "group" will be reassessed when she moves to Y2. Also, at DS's school there is a fair bit of overlap between groups.

[Cortina]

I share your fears and have had an extremely similar situation on my hands.

I have ended the year far more positively and am looking forward to year 2.

DS has gone from a W a the start of the year to a 2C. He's been on the bottom table. Our sets haven't moved very much and and, consequently I believe, labels are beginning to stick.

As our ability sets are stagnant parents have been very keen to keep their child in the top set and put the teacher under pressure that they remain there. I can't say I blame them.

The disruptive, distracting behaviour seems to be evident in the bottom half of the class. DS has had to cope with a lot this year and I am pleased with his progress.

I'd go in and look wistfully at the top table, all keen to learn and then at the rabble rousing going on on my son's table.

My advice is to tell the teacher what you've told us. Keep the channels of communication open at all times. I have real respect for DS's teacher who has tried to do their best at all times. They do however believe that some children are 'bright' others are 'average' and some 'below average' and this belief feeds through into the classroom on some level.

[Cortina]

I've just read the article, thanks for the link. I concur.

Especially with this part:

The authors said: ?While in theory movement between groups is possible, in practice it is frequently restricted, limiting some children?s educational experiences and having adverse long-term effects on some of those children who start in the lowest groups.

I was bright but never 'believed'. This was in part due to being in a bottom set in my early years.

When S'levels were mentioned, after I'd been in the bottom O'level sets possible, I thought the teachers were out of their mind.

I don't want the same thing to happen to my children.

[Cortina]

Just to add our groups are not differentiated in english or maths, but one size fits all. This will hopefully change next year. It's seems ours is an unusual situation but interestingly it is the same as the one described as being more commonplace in the Times article.

Perhaps this was the way things used to be done?

Feenie and others have done a lot to set my mind at rest. Teachers really do want the best for every pupil. It's just that you might not always agree with their methods, especially if you fear they could be harmful longer term. At our school they are friendly and happy to talk, always, so that's a good thing

[crazygracieuk]

I was in a similar situation. We moved from Germany to the UK and my son joined Year 1 from the beginning of the summer term.h

He started off in the bottom groups but he is now in Year 4 and top groups for everything. Can you talk to the teacher? When he started he was kept lower than normal in maths because the teacher (rightly!) felt that he's do better at the top of a less academic group than bottom of an academic group.

The teachers seem to assess at the start of the term (sometimes after a half term)

He made the biggest jumps in groups after the summer holidays. I took him to the library and read with him daily and this really helped him improve his reading in a way that reading scheme couldn't.

Unless you're at a really academic private school, then I'd expect her to be in the average set too.

[crazygracieuk]

I forgot to add that reading etc during the summer holidays is not the norm at our school so doing it meant that my son could improve/stay the same while others "forgot" what they learned at the end of the previous school year.

I honestly didn't do a lot. Reading literally 1 book a day (10-15 minutes?) made a huge difference, primarily because it was "real" books rather than school ones like ORT.

[Cortina]

Crazygracie - how quickly did he progress? Where did he end up at the end of year one and beginning of year 2 for example?

Did you do any maths in the holidays too?

How much mobility was there in the classroom between sets? Just each term when they assessed the children?

Glad to hear he's doing well and everything turned out well for you.

[crazygracieuk]

A bit of background- I am English and my children have English as their mother tongue. In Germany, Year 1 is called Kindergarten and play-based like Reception but if children are keen to read or write they can.

We found out that we were going back to the UK, the Christmas of when ds was in Year 1. After Kindergarten each day I spent 10 minutes teaching him phonics and writing as he knew nothing about either. He started in Year 1 at the start of the summer term. At the end of term he was on ORT3, could write his letters correctly but his written work made no sense. There were no spaces between his words, no punctuation or anything like that.

In the summer holidays we read "real" books every day and I played a lot of Top Trumps. He's a typical boy so the writing that he would do was in the form of lists.

When he started Year 2 he was put on ORT 8 and the momentum of reading daily during the summer was easily kept up in Year 2. By Christmas he was reading chapter books and by the Easter was a Free Reader. At the start of Year 2 he was put on the second top table. (There are 30 in a class and approximately 5 tables of 6 kids) He could have gone to the top table but the personalities of the second top group suited him better so he stayed there until Year 3 when he became more confident. In Year 4 he went from top group to second group but I'm not surprised by this as he dislikes reading and rarely does it so I suspect that others are overtaking him.

For maths- they have 2 classes (an advanced class who are a year ahead and a normal class who are learning what they should be.) Ds was put in the lower class because they thought that he would do better being top of the bottom group rather than bottom of the top group. He seemed to do well and got 2a for his SATs so caught up with the norm.

Just before the first half term in Year 3, they had an assessment and ds was put in the top class. The top class has 5 groups of 6 kids and he started at the bottom. By the end of the year he was middle group.

In year 4, he went up 2 groups at Christmas.

I hope that my detailed reply didn't bore you! In summary I'd say that he seemed to have changed groups once a term-ish?

[Cortina]

Didn't bore me at all, I found it very interesting and appreciate your time. Also found the OP's article interesting, I hadn't seen it before.

Glad to hear of your son's great progress . My son missed most of reception due to illness, so not exactly the same scenario but he had missed a huge amount of the actual learning. He's done well to catch up. I am hoping that setting will be more fluid and flexible next year.

[ncom]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I am bit more relaxed now.
I will book an appointment with her teacher this week and update this thread with the outcome.

[ncom]

Forgot to add...

BTW, are there any independent exams/competitions/challenges of Numeracy and/or Literacy.... just to see how she is doing on the regional/national scale.

[smee]

ncom, I honestly think you need to just ask her teacher. I'd be amazed if they don't put your mind at rest. As to the groups, all schools vary hugely. My DS is also in year 1 and he seems to change groups almost weekly at the moment. Also at his school the groups vary for each subject, so say for reading they are ability based, but for other subjects they're far more mixed. So I'd say find out what the system is at your school is before you start to worry. fwiw, it would be a very bad school that labelled a child at such a young age.