How independent should a Yr 4 boy be?

[Solo2]

Following a meeting with one of my twin sons class teachers, I'm left with the message that both my sons should be a lot more independent and that they stand out as much less independent than their peers.

So what should a 'just turned 9 yr old boy' be able to do? The teacher is referring to two things : being able to record what homework they have, do it, pack it in their school bags and return it on time - all without prompting from me.

The other aspect she's referring to, is how they come home and off-load onto me incidents that have upset them during the day, which then elicts my concern and tactfully raising the issue with the teacher via the school's email communication system.

The underlying message I got from the teacher is that I shouldn't really be doing this. I should let my sons sort things out on their own or at least intersperse any worries/ upsets they have from school with some positive comments.

As the school discourages informal contact between parents and teachers except for formal meetings, the email system is the only way to communicate on a general basis. We'd previously been used to a much smaller school where you could pop in and chat with the teachers twice a day and in the course of a general chat, raise any minor concerns. The email system at the current school means that something v minor sounds more signficant because you've had to write it in a message to a member of staff.

I feel duly chastened by this very nicely worded feedback in the meeting and have mixed response. I noticed that my home circumstances were implicated more than once and I wasn't all that happy with this.

I'm a single mother (by choice) and non-traditional family set-ups are almost unique at this school (fee-paying academically selective). The message to me felt a bit like, "get a life and let go of your kids and let them be". My parenting style is very hands-on/ involved and I realise that this may have stopped my twins becoming as independent as those in a family with two parents, perhaps more children and some 'healthy neglect' - but my choice to have children was very pro-active and inevitably, despite running a full-time business also, much of my life revolves around the twins.

It would be v helpful to hear from other MNetters about what their 9 yr old sons are like, in terms of independence, organisational skills, ability to resolve social and emotional from school on their own. I'm not sure if mine really are all that immature/ dependent - but am completely open to opinions and other people's experiences of what a typical 9 yr old boy is like.

[lovingmy2]

i think i'll be packing DS's school bag etc when he is 16 let alone 9.

The only thing i would say is i'd let them sort out any minor issues themselves. They need to learn how to sort out arguements problems by themselves.

My DS is 4.10 and in reception. He rarely tells me abot who did this that or the other. Far more interested in telling me what he got his stickers for, what he had for lunch and who he played with but on the odd occasion he has said about someone saying or doing something he wasnt happy about i have given him strategies for next time they arise on what he could say or do. Unless DS was hurt or afriad i try to let him find his way abit. It is so hard to do as i spend most of my day worrying about him but as a teacher myself i know that going in about every scrape, upset or exchange of words etc would just be too much for the teacher to bear. Children spend most of their days telling the teachers about this that and the other and most are dealt with on the spot and the more serious incidents involve parents.

If you are emailng her to say A said this to b and b said this and then A did that then i'm not surprised the teacher had a gentle word.

[deaddei]

They're all different...but the first thing my son had to do (from yr 3) was empty his school bag, give me all the letters, empty his lunchbox rubbish and take it to the sink ready for cleaning, and put any dirty pe kit etc by the washing machine.
He soon learned that if he didn't do his homework, he would get in trouble at school-I would always ask if he had any and if he did, ask him when he was going to do it and did it require nmy imput eg spellings.

He walked to school from summer term yr 4 ( 2 roads to cross with zebras). But then he is a sensible boy.
I agree with lovingmy2 about school spats- what are they getting upset about? Getting told off/friendship issues?

[stealthsquiggle]

I would guess it is the second aspect that she is really worried about. Whether or not you are bothered about having to nag them about homework and packing bags is up to you, IMHO.

Communication with DS's teacher (Y3) is mostly via home-school book although I could talk to her at the end of the day. I think next year it is likely to get harder to talk to them informally.

Either way, unless something repeated and serious is happening I would really hestitate to speak to teacher or email about what your DTs are reporting back. What sort of "incidents" are we talking about here? I learned the hard way not to wade in on DS's say so when "I'm bored in X.." turned out to mean "I can't be bothered to concentrate in X..." and I emerged very .

I wouldn't say DS can resolve issues on his own - we do talk about them - it is more that I would not involve the teacher/school directly - rather I would give him advice and leave him to act on it, IYSWIM.

FWIW, organisationally - well, DS sometimes remembers stuff on his own and sometimes I nag remind him. I would expect that pattern to continue for the forseeable future, TBH.

[Solo2]

No, it wasn't that kind of email. It was things like my son being upset with not being able to do Maths and the teacher not having time to give him any help throughout the lesson and then him believing there's no point asking for help...and an incident where he felt picked on by a teacher who was cross he'd not finished some work - but the reason being that DS had had an individual musical instrument lesson coinciding often with that class...and other things like a child regularly stealing the juice he takes in for breaktime....stuff like that.

When I emailed about things like this, the class teacher would ask DS about it and he'd be too scared to tell her what he'd told me and just agree with her view point, eg "I should concentrate more in Maths and be able to work on my own without help"/ "I chat too much in the lesson and it's this that makes me behind, not because I've missed a lot of those lessons"/ "I should stand up for myself and prevent the other child stealing my juice".

So the class teacher is left believing that DS is 'making a mountain out of a mole hill' to me at home, whereas I'm not so sure this really is the case and hence my preference for at least finding out from the school what had really happened.

It's most likely that all points of view are valid - but now I feel as if I should take much more of a back seat and let DS cope with whatever happens at school independently, whether it's fair or not.

I suspect from what the teacher has said to me in this meeting, that whilst the school outwardly encourage parents to email about the slightest concern, they don't expect or want too many of these - although the number of emails from me would only ever amount to about 3 or 4 a term.

My approach is usually to back up the school and let DCs know I support the school - and yet I also want to know whether the Dcs concerns have any validity - hence the emails.

It looks like the school expect the children to be more self-reliant in all ways. I'm still left feeling a bit 'not OK' with things and would still value others' opinions.

[Solo2]

Whoops! Had only read lovingmy2's reply when I wrote me second message and so was replying to her directly. Sounds like more people DO feel I need to back off and let go and expect more of my twins.

It's difficult not to want to rush in a protect them, even at age 9 and feel upset and worried if I think they've been mistreated - but of course I can't do this for the rest of their lives and I have to let go sometime.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that the teacher's message was to me, as much as about DCs - and that maybe she doesn't have other parents using the email system in the way that I do.

I really wish it were more like their old school where you went in - at least to the playground - at the start and end of the day and could catch up easily and informally with the teachers then and have a general chat about their lives etc etc so that it felt more like a human connection than just a parent/ teacher thing.

However, at their old school, there were only 10 to 12 children per class but currently there are about 25 children per class and so I expect the teachers are under a lot more pressure and have even more work to do. The teacher in question has a reputation for being absolutely brilliant in responding to parents' emails, even last at night and/or at w/es and maybe she's just been taking to much on and overdoing her caring role.

She says I need to let the twins get into trouble for missing homeworks etc rather than ensuring I know what they have to do and when. DS1 needs more of this - learning from the consequences - and is more laid back. DS2 - who has Asperger's traits - on the other hand gets obsessionally worried about even the slightest mistake he might make and needs more reassurance - yet is the more independent one of the two already...

It's v difficult to let go and also to do this in different ways for each twin....and I'm sure that the fact they were so wanted, and tried for and then I nearly lost them during the pregnancy and they were premature, that I've continued to attend too much to their every need, almost a decade later!

[stealthsquiggle]

I don't think 3-4 messages per term makes you a complete PITA parent, personally - but maybe the time has come to try and give the DTs a bit more responsibility/control and see what happens.

Maybe you and DT2 could write a list of what they need to do - if pinned somewhere prominent, he can check it as many times as he needs to, and if DT1 doesn't check it then he can take the consequences?

[bourboncreme]

i think in choosing an academically selective school you have slightly exacerbated this issue or at least brought it to a head earlier(I know I have been where you are!!)These sorts of school do in my experience expect a higher level of independence partly because they are preparing them for senior schools which will demand this of them.

My youngest ds is aged 8 and in year 3 of a selective(although not massively so) prep.He is expected to write down his own homework and get it done himself,inreality he nmanages to record the task fine but will avoid doing it if i don't remind or set a time for him to do it.He has to remember when to go to his music lesson and to look on the notice board to check the time.He has also to remenber his games kit and different kit for different sports ...this i find annoying as he loses stuff a lot.He also has to sign up for and remember what lunchtime clubs he needs to attend and also what after school clubs he is signed up for.

With my eldest son i felt a bit like you i wanted to protect him and took him very seriously when he reported incidents , and I did fret about it ,it is very iteresting talking to him about this now ,he is 16 ,as it is clear that sometimes he just needed to offload and really didn't need me to interevene,other times he will freely admit that he would play the martyr card becasue he knew I would then spend time discussing and comforting i.e.it was a mild form of attention seeking .He wasn't lying but he possibly wasn't quite as bothered as I thought he was.

In my experience in Year 5 the expectations of independence step up quite sharply so possibly the teacher is also giving you a gentle heads up ,if you are planning to continue in this type of education you need to encourage them to be more confident in talking to teachers etc ,politely of course,I use role play quite a lot for this.I play the teacher and we rehearse what he would say or we practice explaining why they were late,for example I had a music lesson or I needed to return a book to another teacher.

[GooseyLoosey]

My ds is only in Yr 2 but I think that I would tend to agree with the school.

Ds has had some social issues and I became very involved. However, I have noticed that once the school are aware of general issues and we agreed an approach, it is better for me (and ds) if I do not know the minutae of his day and do not get involved in the trivial doings of 7 year olds. We have a general rule that if there is a recurring problem he talks to us about it. We try and agree a strategy which he can implement himself. Only if this does not resolve the issue and it continues would I approach the school. I would say that I now talk to his teacher less than once a month.

Re homework, I have a designated time for doing it and I announce that it is homework time. If ds says he can't be bothered, I now say "that's fine, but you will have to take the consequences of that at school and I will tell your teacher it was your choice not to do it". I think it is important that he learns that it is not for my benefit that he does homework, but his own.

Never easy to get the balance right though and I really sympathise with a desire to "fix" everything for your children.

[stealthsquiggle]

I suspect I will be where the OP is this time next year - Y4 is seen as the 'gentle introduction' to the harsh realities of the main prep school and I think a lot more will be expected of them than in Y3.

LOL at bourboncreme's DS's admission of attention seeking - I strongly suspect my DS does that too - I have started to do the "hmmm, really?" reaction the first time I hear something and only really go into it if I am still hearing it the next day / week, or if he is clearly very upset (there have been occasions when he only just makes it into the car before he bursts into tears ).

[Solo2]

These are all very helpful responses I think most are indicating my need to step back a bit and what you say about your eldest son, bourboncreme, is exactly what the teacher was implying to me about DS1 too. I expect she's had lots of experience compared to me with children like this and it's easier for her to see things objectively, whereas I get v emotionally involved and think, "Who's hurting my child?!!!"

You're right, that she was telling me v clearly that Yr 5 is a big step up - both in academic pressure and in the need for better organisational skills and independence.

Now I'm feeling less reactive, I can see I've probably inadvertently exacerbated things by being one of those very 'overly involved' parents

Thanks to everyone who's helped me work my way through this today ...now I just have to begin stepping back and letting go!....

[bourboncreme]

Solo2 don't be so hard on yourself,it doesn't sound as if she was critical of your boys and she sounds quite gentle and positive.You are bound to be protective of your boys we all are and I know all i want to do is make everythig right for them all of the time.Ds1 is 16 now and it is no better ,I still want to punch one of his teachers who said he lacked emotional intelligence(no...he just doesn't think you are wonderful like all the girls do!)I'm just better at holding myself back now.

Always remember you know your boys better than anyone and if you think it is serious then it probably is ,just try to get themto help themselves first if possible and if they can't then its your turn!