Year 3 SATS?

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

After last years Yr 2 SATS being completely low key for my dd (she had no idea she was doing them, the term meant mothing to her, for which I was very pleased), this year the school seem to be very upfront about it all. DD has been coming home for the last two weeks saying that she has been doing SATs papers. I have chatted to her about it and she initially said she they were making her feel worried, but after our chat, she has been fine about them, just taking them in her stride. Today she came home saying that she and ten others in her class were sent to a separate room at school to do another SATs paper that the rest of the class weren't sitting. Any idea why this would be? The scholl isn't great on comunication, so we may well not be told - they certainly didn't tell us the children would be doing these SATs, which I thought were optional, nor did they tell us the children would know about them, unlike last year. Is doing an extra SATs paper likely to be a good thing or a bad thing?

[mrz]

The Y3 SATs are optional for the school not optional for the child as they are used as part of a school's ongoing internal assessment of every child.

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

Thanks for your reply mrz. I know the SATs aren't optional for the child, but I was surprised that the school did not mention them to parents, as last year they sent out a letter telling us about them, but saying that they were going to be low ley for the children and for us not to talk about them. This year seems like a complete change of approach.
I am also curious about this extra SAT that my dd took today with 10 others from her class. Is it likely to be a lower or higher paper, if there are such things? Assuming we get the results come report time, what should we be looking for if dd got 3's at Yr 2? I assume a 3b or 3a?

[mrz]

I think the difference is that Y2 SATs are a national test that all children take and they are often accompanied by lots of hype and dare I say hysteria whereas Y3 optional SATs are for the school to access children's progress internally.

Really can't comment on why some children were taken out as KS2 optional tests don't involve different papers for different levels as in KS1 having a level 2 and a level 3 test...

The expectations are 2 notional sublevels a year so a child achieving a 3 in Y2 should be 3a at the end of Y3 in theory.

[TheCheeseAlarm]

In Year 3 and 4, there are 2 maths papers, at a higher and lower level. Children are only supposed to sit one paper, teachers use their own assessment to decide whether they take paper a or b. Unfortunately, some schools get all children to take paper A, and then if they do well enough get them to take paper B as well. This could be what has happened. Was it a Maths paper that your child sat?

[mrz]

My school does exactly that.

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

Thank you ladies. The paper was a maths one. DD is good at maths but I think stronger in literacy, so if she was doing a higher level paper, I would have assumed it would be literacy and was surprised it was maths.

It is frustrating that we don't know what goes on with assessment at school. It seems short-sighted that the children are told about these tests, will come home and tell us about them, but we have no idea what they mean. Why don't schools tell us their assessment plan for the year (ie children will be tested termly (or whatever), using CAT/SATs (whatever!). Progress will be reported to parents twice yearly (or whenever)). Why don't schools do this do yout think?

[katiestar]

My DD did the SATS maths one on her own this week as she was off the week before (she was given the option of doing it or no).

Me did you do all the Questions
She No I left some out because they would have taken too long
Me so did you run out of time ?
She No I had to sit and wait for ages at the end
Me (thinks) DOH !!
She but I only didn't do a quarter of them or a sixteenth or a half !

I won't be holding my breath for too high a score on that test then !!!

[Feenie]

Because there is only a statutory requirement for schools to report end of Key Stage assessments (i.e. Y6 and Y2).

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

Thnaks Feenie
I know the school don't have to report these other SATS. It is just frustrating that the children take them and we get no info about it. I do feel my dd's school is not keen on letting parents 'in' on the whole thing. We get curriculum information, but very little in terms of how our individual children are doing.
Can I ask if you know why there are two papers that can be done to assess maths and only one for literacy - how does that work? Oh, and do they do SATS for science as at the end of KS1, or is it just maths and literacy?

[lilackaty]

We have just been given a new format for our reports and the parents are told what level their child is working at for all subjects.
It might be that she took the paper and didn't do as well as she could so was given the other one to do.
Literacy is more about the outcome than the questions so the levels can vary more I guess.
One of my children did a year 2 paper (but we only did reading, not writing). I have no idea what SATs my dd did (she's year 4) and I think she missed most of them cos she's been off for half of the last 2 weeks.
They used to do science sats when my dd did (2 years ago) but not sure now - I think so because my friend's class were doing a science test on Fri.

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

Thanks lilackaty. It does seem that parents don't have that much info to go on a lot of the time. It must be good to get clear attainment grades from your school. I will wait and see re dd's report - they tend to give them out the day before the end of term, along with a note saying there is not much time/point meeting with the teacher to discuss them

[lilackaty]

Actually I disagree. I would rather tell parents that their child is working above/below/at expected level and their effort is outstanding/good/satisfactory (or something more appropriate) as I think, as a parent that is what I want to know. I wouldn't mind knowing what level dd is at in Numeracy and Literacy but as I don't know where she was last year, it isn't really relevant iyswim. I give them at my own school where I work but my dd's school don't give them.
The timing seems a bit odd - maybe it's to give teachers more time to write them? You could ask the office the date the reports come out and if it is that late again, mention it to the head or the parent govenor

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

lilackaty - I like the sound of the reports you describe. We have never got comments on effort, nor an idea of whether our dd is achieving what she is capable of or underachieving. We also have no idea of how she is doing in relation to her class, although we obviously get an idea of where she is compared with national stats. However, if the rest of the class is doing better (for example), then that would be useful to know, even if she was doing well compared with national standards iykwim?
As for the timing of reports - it is typical of the school. They don't want to get involved in discussions, so reports always go out the day before the end of the school year. It is frustrating that we don't get a chance to discuss them with the class teacher, and have to wait till the next year, when we are told to give the new teacher a while to settle the class before we arrange a meeting...
It is even more frustrating that the letter that goes with them makes it sound like the reports being this late is a one off, so on 'this ocassion' it is not appropriate to arrange a meeting with the class teacher - grrr!
Sorry rant over!

[lilackaty]

That sounds very frustrating.
My children's school reports only changed 2 years ago and they may change again this year (new head) I guess. The bit I look at is the effort and the comment from the teacher.
It would only be useful to know if your dd's class is average - my dd's class has no core for example - in an average class, my dd would be in the top group but her class has some exceptionally clever children so she is closer to the middle.