Question regarding maths levels - would appreciate comment from teachers here

[idlingabout]

I just have a query over something which came up at parent/teacher meeting re dd. This is absolutely not a complaint and I could have thought to ask the teacher but she was running late and we were the last appointment and had already had a good long conversation. My dd is in year 3; back in November did a maths test so teacher could bench-mark etc . DD got a level 4c with which we are all very pleased and teacher has put her with year 4 children for maths (mixed year classes).All absolutely fine. She wanted to explain to us that at the end of the school year that dd's maths level will not be able to be any higher than a 4c as they can't test beyond that.We agreed that perhaps we could compare actual marks (ie percentage score). The teacher is fantastic and I have no doubts that she will continue to motivate and stretch dd but I just wondered why they don't test beyond a certain limit. I'm sure there is a good reason.
Sorry so long-winded

[snorkle]

I expect the tests they run at that age just have that ceiling - they might be using the optional SATs tests for year 3. The SATs tests at the end of year 6 have a ceiling of 5, so not surprising if the lower ones have lower maximums as well. The problem with maths is if you get too far ahead curriculum-wise you end up getting bored later.

[idlingabout]

Think you are right Snorkle. I suppose they only teach certain aspects for year 3 and 4 and then have a test which covers those elements. I'm not worried, just interested and certainly don't want to be pushy.

[Bubble99]

What a sad and insane situation that a child can not be allowed to progress at their natural rate - because they will be bored later with the curriculum that the government prescribes for their age.

All wrong.

[idlingabout]

I would agree with you Bubble if I thought she would be genuinely bored and 'held back' .However, as this is just the 'testing' aspect I am assuming that she will be given other challenges. For example ,she hasn't totally mastered her tables yet so there is loads to be done there. I also have a lot of faith in this particular teacher. Having said that, I agree that government prescribed curriculum doesn't cater well for those at the edges of the spectrum.

[snorkle]

What they do bubble is try and stretch them sideways - giving them more challenging extension work within their age curriculum rather than forging ahead, getting to A level at 14 (or whenever), and then wondering what to do next. It works to a degree.

[cushioncover]

Agree with snorkle.
Also level 4 is VAST. Many children just touch level 4C in Y3 but will still be level 4 in Y5 despite making sound progress. They should then reach level 5 in their Y6 SATs

Also keep in mind that just because the optional tests do not score any higher this does not mean that her teacher will not be setting her appropriate classwork and keeping an eye on her progress. Bubble, Saying the Y3 tests don't go higher is not the same as saying they can't stretch her further.

[Christywhisty]

My DD Year 5 was getting extension work in Maths last term with 2 others, partly because the Ofsted report said they were not challenging those who were good at maths enough. They were doing a lot of problem solving.

She also got invited to a maths masterclass at the local comp which they did finding the nth term, which is level 6, normally covered Year 7/8. She really enjoyed it.

[Heated]

As an indicator of how good your lo is, children can enter secondary school on level 4 (level 3 are entitled to catchup sessions in yr 7), although if good at maths, a level 5 is expected by 11. As a rough guide it takes about 18m to progress through a level.

[idlingabout]

Thanks everyone - thought there must be loads of extension work.Still intrigued though that if level 4 is vast as you say Cushioncover, why they aren't allowed to test her beyond a 4c ( ie 4b, 4a) especially as I would have thought it in the schools' interest to have an 'indicator' of progression in this world of league tables and ofsted.

[cushioncover]

They will be testing her, just not with those official tests.
Tests such as optional SATs, NFER or heinneman only produce one test for say Y3 or sometimes 3 (for each term for Y3)

So teachers use the same tests every year for each Y3s. The next test is probably the Y4 test which they won't want to give her because a) she'll be expected to sit it next year b) it will also cover lots of work which she won't have covered yet and it's quite possible that this would skew her level and she'd actually come out lower than in the Y3 test. In essence, you need to know more to get a 4C in Y4 than you do to get a 4C in Y3.
Despite being bright, she wouldn't do as well as many Y4s on the test because they've spent the year learning lots which she will not have touched on in Y3.

They are clearing meeting her needs in the practical sense as she is being grouped with Y4s for maths so don't worry too much. She will almost certainly now be tracked each year (checking she has progressed in line with her ability) and school will teach her towards and expect her to get, a Level 5 in Y6.

One other thing! Don't expect her to go beyond a 4B at the end on Y4. That would still be excellent progress and shows that she has consolidated a L4. TBH, getting a level 4 in Y3 is more an indication of a child's ability as there aren't enough L4 questions to show a 'true' level 4. Hopefully then getting 4A or 5 at the end of Y5 then a 5 in her SATs.

I hope some of that makes sense.

[idlingabout]

Thanks Cushioncover - that helps alot. I wasn't worried as I am very confident in the teacher but was just intrigued by the system.