Ongoing bullying - is a new school the answer?

[Moonatic]

My dd (aged 8) has been at her current school for 3 years. She left her previous school mainly because she was being bullied (although we did have a couple of issues with the teaching there, too).

DD liked the school at first until another new girl started there and everything seemed to change. The "new" girl (ok, she's been there a year now) seems to have replaced dd in her friendship group and seems to make sure dd is always excluded. She whispers about dd and always makes sure there is no room for dd on the lunch table and makes up silly "rules" to make sure that dd either can't play at all or that she always loses in any game they reluctantly "allow" her to join in.

I have been to see dd's form teacher and her headmistress who both insist that dd is happy and there is no problem and that the "new girl" is a lovely girl who would never do anything mean (I am far from convinced about any of this). They have told me categorically that there is no bullying in the school (even though I know of a girl in another class who is leaving because her mother believes she is being bullied). Yet dd is always begging to move school and often spends time sobbing in the car before I am finally able to persuade her to go in to school in the mornings.

I am inclined to let her try a new school. I have looked around a local private school which would potentially have a place available for her and I liked the headmistress there who certainly seemed very warm and caring and quite different from the more brusque headmistress we have at the current school. The headmistress at the current school has said that changing school would just be teaching dd to "run away from problems" and said that dd obviously has difficulties making friends which will probably follow her to any new school. (She knows dd left her first school because of bullying problems).

Is she right? Would it be sensible to let dd move when she is so unhappy at the moment, given that her present school will not accept there is any problem (or, worse, strongly implies that "over-sensitive" dd - their words - is the one with the problem)? Or are we going to make things even worse if it turns out she is unhappy at a third school? Are we teaching her to "run away from problems"?

We can just about afford the private school until secondary although it won't be easy. DD doesn't seem to have problems making friends outside school at things like Brownies and tennis club.

[caravanista13]

As a former teacher I'm appalled that any school would say that they have no bullying. All schools have bullying to some extent but the good ones recognise it and have strategies in place to deal with it. I would usually suggest staying put and working with the school to change the situation but if the school is so complacent I think your best option is to move.

[Unexpected]

Any school which denies they have any bullying is not one that I would want my child to attend. What differentiates good and poor schools when it comes to bullying is how they deal with it. A good school will acknowledge that there is always some bullying but will have a robust policy in place to deal with it in a timely fashion.

[lottiesatitagain]

It is a tough one. Your poor dd. I would write to the head explaining what you have in your op and express your concern that the school is not taking it seriously. I would ask her to reply with an intended plan to help your dd.

My big worry with the new school would be what if it happens again and she wants to leave.

[DancingDinosaur]

Well if they are telling you there is no bullying then they are clearly not going to deal with it. I see the heads point about running away, but if they aren't going to help make things better then you don't have a huge amount of choice.

[PythagorousPlannedIt]

A school which denies it has a bullying problem (and therefore has no requirement to deal with it), is to be avoided. Take your daughter out.

And sometimes running away from a problem is the correct thing to do.

[Moonatic]

Thanks for the responses. Obviously my biggest worry is that dd will end up being unhappy at the new school (if we move her there). On the other hand, she hates it at her current school (and, tbh, I hate being made to feel like I am some sort of hysterical, over-anxious, over-protective parent whenever I speak to dd's form teacher or the headmistress. I am not like that - honest.)

[Unexpected]

Have you seen the school's bullying policy? (They have to have one, even if denying that there is a need for it!) Are they following it?

I think sometimes unfortunately someone who has been bullied in the past can suffer again in the future, maybe your daughter is particularly sensitive, maybe there is something which makes her an easy target for the Queen Bees of the world, maybe something else? However, that doesn't mean that the current problems don't exist and school should be supporting her and helping her with strategies which, if they are denying there is any problem, is never going to happen. So whatever the reasons for the bullying, it is not going to improve in her current environment.

[BrowersBlues]

I moved my son twice once because the teaching was not good and moved him a second time because he was being bullied. I put both decisions off because everyone kept telling me that moving school was very disruptive and that a child is better off staying in the one school.

This turned out to be a load of codswallop! When I moved him for academic reasons he learned more in a year and a half in the new school that he had for years at the old one.

When he went into first year he got bullied. The school tried to mimimise the bullying and their proposed strategy for dealing with the issue was poor to say the least. He moved and spent 3 years in a school he loved with plenty of friends and second to none teaching. The subject choices didn't work out for his GCSE choices so he moved again after 3rd year.

He loves the school he is in now and doesn't reget any of the moves. He has tons of friends from lots of different schools. It is a joke in our house that he has had every school uniform in the district.

He is thinking about moving again after his GCSEs.

I think he has benefitted from all the moves - I would prefer if he would actually do some work at the one he is in now but that's another story...

[Moonatic]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I think you have all helped me to decide that a new school would probably be dd's best option - basically, I can see no hope that anything is ever going to improve at her current school given that they refuse to accept there is any problem. I will call the other school in the morning and see about transferring dd there. Thanks for the advice and for helping me to see things a bit more clearly.

[FabulousFudge]

I would change her school, if I were I your shoes.

[Leeds2]

I don't really think you have a choice. Which is, actually, a dreadful thing to say.

Would she be able to do a taster day at the proposed new school?

[atonofwashing]

Op I feel so bad for your dd and you. What an awful situation to be in.
You've been backed into a corner and have no choice, it seems. Your dd could stay, but she's clearly unhappy. As are u.

My ds is going thru the same thing right now. In fact, he was actually sick this afternoon. He is extremely tired, but a classmate of his told me that he had to step in and stop my son from being bullied. I think he was punched in the tummy. It's been going on for a few years, and the old head did nothing. I wrote to the head, the board of governors and the director of the lea. Not much was done, but things calmed down. This was last July. Now it's back, big time. I spoke with the new head, who I think has a handle on it. Last week, a governor was so furious abt the situation, she spoke to the teacher, before she spoke to me. I was grateful for that.

For a school to deny bullying, that's just hugely unprofessional. I've had that old chestnut said to me too. I am supposing my son is an easy target. I have tried to move schools in the area, but all the schools were full.
My husband has the chance for a posting overseas. It's a pretty drastic move, but one way of getting away from those bullies.

Have you spoken with any governors? They all have a responsibility to the children and are not doing their job if they choose to ignore it. It's disgraceful behaviour. I wish you all good luck.

[Lazaretto]

Personally, I think your dc needs help to deal with these social situations. Moving school will not help.

[ommmward]

Home Ed is another option - much more gentle socially, and children can avoid other children who are mean to them. Great way of building confidence through the rest of primary school, assuming there is a reasonable HE network in your area, and you can manage to juggle it financially and practically.

[atonofwashing]

Lazaretto, I agree with you. However, if a child and their family are not getting any back up, and the child is so unhappy, could you really send your child off to that school each day?

Some schools really do need to wake up regarding this issue.

[mistybear]

My dd 9 was and to some extent still being bullied at her school I went to the headteacher after nothing was being done by the teacher and he said basically the same thing I was a overprotective mum and my dd was playing me !!! So I told him that I did not think I was being overprotective and it was not just my dd who was telling me ! so I told him I was moving schools and would be writing a letter to the local educational authority about the schools lack of help on the matter ! The next day he had the children in and was very shocked when they all admitted to the bulling so he basically told them and their parents if he heard about them bulling my dd or any other children he would be asking them to leave. I think this was a bit of a wake up for most of them and they have left her alone, a couple still go beyond normal teasing but I just explain to my dd that's life unfortunately :( I did explain to her I would move schools and we were going to go private as well but I had to point out that even with moving schools it would get rid of the present bullies but I could not guarantee that she would not be bullied at the new school and that she would also not have the friends around her that she had now, as she might not be the most popular girl she still was liked by most of her year and was voted onto the school council by her classmates so she chose to stay and is now doing really well. it is always sadly in the background but she can be a little quirky and is very much her own person so I think is always going to be picked on by certain type of child at whatever school she goes to which is very sad :( but she has some really good friends so fingers crossed she will be ok. good luck with whatever you choose and I hope your dd will be very happy x

[Temporaryanonymity]

We are in very similar positions. Same age too although in our case the bullying has been physical and taken the form of social exclusion.

I can't say too much because the facts make us identifable. However, due to my most recent meeting with the school I have removed my children. We don't have a school to go to but I'm going to cross that bridge tomorrow.

[atonofwashing]

I was at an all girls private school from year 5 and the bullying was appalling. That was a long time ago ( feel old),but I'm not sure the single sex private route would be any better. Just a thought and of course some schools, private or state, are very proactive.

Misty, well done to your headmaster for doing what he did.
Temporary, sorry to hear abt that.

[MMmomKK]

I am sorry your daughter is having a hard time. And it does seem that your best option now is to move her.

However, you do need to understand why it keeps happening to your daughter and what she is doing/not doing to end up in those situations. She needs to know how to deal with difficult friendship situations, which would happen again at some point. She will not be able to keep moving schools if it happens again.

Hopefully the private school can help you with that. If I were you, I'd look out for the head for pastoral care in the new school and have an honest conversation about your situation. She/he must be able to give you advice on what you should be doing.

Many people recommended this book for the kids about bullying. There must be others as well.

www.amazon.co.uk/Bullies-Bigmouths-So-Called-Friends-So-called/dp/0340911840/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423695665&sr=8-1&keywords=bigmouths%20and%20so%20called%20friends&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Moonatic]

Update: dd has just had a "taster day" at the new school and had a great time. So she will be starting there as soon as all the paperwork is sorted - hopefully as soon as next week.

I have told her currrent headmistress who acted very surprised : "But we thought your dd loved it here! (No idea what gives her that impression, given the number of times I have complained about bullying which, of course, doesn't happen at that school).

Many thanks to those of you who took the trouble to advise. I feel as happy as I can be that we are making the right decision, although doubts will always remain. And dd is much happier already, knowing that, finally, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[experiencedoptimist]

Good luck to your DD. Head for that light and don't look back!