SATS Stress making DD Ill - Advice Please??

[rockinhippy]

Sorry if this is a bit long winded, I'm totally wiped out & find it very hard to keep it simple when I get this way, will try, but please bare with me :)

Yesterday & today DD, who is year 3 - has had a bad flare up of her stomach problems - ongoing - IBS/Possible Chrohns Diagnosis - aggravated by food additives, lactose & stress - but we have it very much under control & she's been fine for ages - (bar a few weeks ago after she was given a cheese wrap for school Dinner - otherwise after years of dealing with it, we know her triggers & I work very hard with her diet to make sure she isn't ill.

She came home from School yesterday complaining of stomach pain, saying she'd had at School too, but dealt with it herself as it was the end of the day, but otherwise seems her usual bubbly self, if a bit pale

Tonight she comes in, all her usual bubbly self telling us of her day, & then later running to the loo, she goes on to tell me she had to lie on the School bench at lunch time because she had very bad pains & then had to run to the toilet & had bad diareah, she is very good at dealing with this herself, as after a lot of School stress last year, she was going to School with constant problems & has just learnt to cope herself :(

Tonight the stomach pain & diareah continue & she's now running to the loo 6 times since getting in & now not sleeping because of it & is dizzy & washed out.

I'm wracking my brains desperately trying to work out WHY, I know she hasn't had any food/drink to set it all off - so that leaves stress, but initially she seems happy, chatting about her School work etc

I now feel pretty crap as during the course of further chats with her tonight, it turns out that this last 2 days they have been sitting SATS & I had no idea I thought they weren't doing it at her School, after some talk of it last year, or being totally thick, thought even if they did, it didn't start until year 4 or later

So suddenly Bingo!! - this is the reason she is suddenly so ill

she is a little perfectionist, & even though she's been told not to worry & to leave questions if she can't answer them & is bright & able, she she owns up to feeling pressured by the time limits & not wanting to leave any questions - she also owns up to thinking that this is all part of her "last School exams" (O"levels) so feels she has to do well :(

I'm really not happy about her sitting exams at such a young age, its ridiculous, but if she didn't worry about it, then fine I would accept it as part of the system & let it go - but its making her ill - tonight very ill :(

So my question is - how do I stand on insisting she doesn't sit any more?? (until yr6 ) - I know I can get my GPs backing on that because her problems are well documented - can I do that - as after all its her welfare thats my concern, not silly tests.

I doubt at the moment if she will be well enough for School tomorrow, but if I keep her home will they make her take the SATS at a later date??

How does this whole thing work?? - I'm happy to fight any system that isn't in her best interests, but its all new to me & so feel out of my depth[confused[

Can someone please explain the SATS system & how I stand as far as excluding her from it until older for health reasons.

Thank You :)

[cece]

The Year 3 SATs are optional for the school. However, if they have decided to do them as part of their assessment cycle then if your DD is off ill tomorrow then she will do them when she gets back.

[rockinhippy]

Thank you cece - especially for reading my long winded post

would you know - can I insist she isn't made to do them at all & if so how - Head or above??

As she is ill as a result I feel very strongly about her not taking part

[manicbmc]

She will have to do the tests or some kind of assessment - otherwise how can they tell if she's made progress and pick up on any problems?

This could be stress related but, as this is school we're talking about, it could be a stomach bug (there are plenty doing the rounds at the moment). Hope she feels better soon.

[manicbmc]

She won't be the only one who gets stressed by tests but opting out is doing her no favours for the future.

[rockinhippy]

Thank you Manic

no there are no stomach bugs in School ATM - I asked

& they already she's doing very well at School, she's very bright & has done well all through School even when dealing with health problems, so no real problems to show up

[rockinhippy]

already know she's doing well

[sleepingsowell]

As far as I know if she misses the SATS they won't make her take them individually.

The SATS are for the school's rating - nothing to do with your DD, whose abilities will be well known by her teachers and she will be in groups according to their existing knowledge of her.

Definitely, definitely keep her off - don't let her waste another moment on it. They are not for HER at all but for the school.

Also, I would be asking the school for a referral to Ed Psych to see if they can assess her anxiety levels and get some strategies in to help.

Also, have the teachers put any strategies in? There is a book for kids that my DS was recommended, called "what to do when you worry too much" and it was revolutionary for him.

There may be something similar to help kids who are over anxious about getting things right/perfectionists. I would be asking for some specialist input to help, as your DD's problems seem so pronounced in terms of the effects of anxiety on her system.

But please, don't give the SATS another second of your time. The school don't even have to do them. They mean nothing in terms of your dd's long term education.

[PotteringAlong]

I'm torn between 2 answers (very unhelpfully-sorry!). Part of me completely agrees with you and says just keep her off and say no.

BUT - assessment is a part of school life and, although she is only in year 3, you don't want to go in and make it into a bigger deal
than it is, if that makes sense, because then she'll see it's something to be stopped because it's bad, rather than something you just do your best at and it doesn't really matter.

I don't know the answer. That's not what you want, is it?!

[rockinhippy]

sorry Manic I disagree - & feel tests so young are ridiculous, especially as making her ill - I don't believe it will affect her future, as she's bright enough to get by that -IYSWIM -

my concern right now is her health & I don't want to go back to daily stomach problems, possibly for months, as once it starts it can be hard to settle again IYSWIM - that will do her far less favours

So I will be opting her out, but I just need to know how I go about it??

[sarahfreck]

I think the first thing would be to discuss it with dd's teacher. Explain what has happened and ask for their advice on minimising stress. It maybe that a quiet word from DD's teacher/headteacher saying " You really don't need to worry, you are doing fine and your sats results will fine." might be enough. (Teachers of course are always right whereas parents who say exactly the same things know nothing!)

You could also go back to your GP and ask his/her advice. Maybe some help form CAMHS on dealing with stress might be useful?

[cece]

The year 3 sats are not published so they are not like the Year 6 ones. They will give her the tests on her return as the results will be used on the assessment tracking that the school uses. They need to do these as they need to assess her progress and monitor whether she is on track to achieve what is expected of her in Year 6 SATs.

These assessments will happen throughout her time in the Juniors so I am not sure how you are going to negotiate that she doesn't do them. Then what will you do when she does the Year 6 ones? I think the issue here is how they are put across to the children. Are they a big thing or low key? Or is your DD sensitive to any kind of test normally eg spellings/times tables etc?

[sleepingsowell]

Assessment is part of school life, I agree with you - however some children have needs for assistance to cope with some aspects of school and I don't think it sounds fair on this little girl, for her to be in that position until the adults involved have given her some targetted strategies to arm her with the ability to cope

Some kids have this naturally, some kids need a bit of extra help with this sort of thing

and my point being - at year 3, it is perfectly easy for the teachers to have a complete overview and knowledge of their pupils abilities without sats

SATS are a govt check on teachers and are not supposed to be an 'exam' for primary kids.

[rockinhippy]

Thank you sleeping that is what I thought, but wasn't sure :)

& she has in the past seen the Ed Phsyc, due to on going class disruption/bullying & the effect that had on her - but that was quite an extreme situation - she is know at School to be a perfectionist & it was discussed at the time too....& also something I've personally worked hard with her on too - my motto being - whats the worst that can happen - will anyone die - then theres absolutely nothing to worry about

She isn't a big worrier, can be quite laid back, but she is a perfectionist & very competitive & sadly does have a very sensitive digestive system that reacts badly to the slightest hint of stress, even when she isn't really worrying that much - unfortunately its common with IBS etc

Though thank you, the books do seem like a great idea, so I will look into that :)

& thank you pottering - TBH, that was something I have considered - she's going to have to do exams at some time & I don't want to make her feel that way, so I am playing it very carefully with her - she's complained they gave her no warning & that has made it seem worse, as she wasn't prepared - though I can see why they would do that - to stop any worrying - its had the opposite effect with her.

silly thing is - she actually thinks she's done well, only missed a couple of questions due to running out of time & said it was easy - yet still makes herself ill because of the time limit put on her (she flaps like crazy if I ever have to hurry her along for anything - Teachers/Phsyc just put it down to her personality -

not sure how I'm going to get past that, she is what she is & thats great, I just don;t want it at this age :(

[sleepingsowell]

bless her. This thread is making me smile. My DS at the same age didn't even mention there had been tests. He couldn't have cared less!

I'm sure that with such a supportive, sensible mum as you she will get the help she needs. A few more strategies should help her alot I think.

And her perfectionism will probably be a GREAT characteristic, helping her do well in school, and to at least CARE about what she does

[IgnoringTheChildren]

SATS are a joke and the sooner they are stopped the better. (I say this as a teacher and as someone who used to mark SATS exams) This kind of pressure on young children isn't helpful, yes she will eventually be assessed by exams (unless she attends a school where they think it's better for her to take BTECs in order to improve their standing in the league tables...) but that's a long way off, by which point she will hopefully be better at dealing with stress.

You know your daughter and if this is making her ill then it's clearly not right for her to be doing the exams. Talk to the school, hopefully they will understand and work out what's best for her (and if they don't just keep her home - after all she's clearly ill!)

[rockinhippy]

Thank you Sarah - yes I will speak with Teacher first, - that makes sense - but I know the Teacher saying don't worry won't make any difference, we've been through that before with her....& will take her to see our GP tomorrow

Sorry I'm getting more tired & cross eyed so will answer others in one

no, she doesn't stress over spellings etc - a little, but not to the degree that makes her ill - we did have problems last term, where I felt she wasn't reaching her full potential - she seemed to have lost interest a bit & she was stressing over her friend beating her with spellings - started daydreaming her way through lessons, something I posted here for advice about - but none of it made her ill & resolved now with a new teacher with methods DD is more comfortable with - she now owns up to being bored in lessons with the old teacher, even though she loved her to bits

I think its the word SATS that has bothered her, she seeems to think its really important - I think had she not been told it was SATS, she may well have been fine

& yes totally agree they DO know her level & abilities, she's not a shy kid & revels in taking part in class discussions.

I will opt her out this year - but you are right in that its something that she will need to deal with eventually, so looking into coping strategies now, for future seems a very sensible idea - thank you:)

[rockinhippy]

Thank you Ignoring :) - that is VERY reassuring & makes me even more determined - I do have Teaching friends & Family, (but it was too late to ring anyone tonight when I had time to sit & think on this) - I've heard them alll complain about SATS in the past, so know many Teachers also aren't happy about it with kids so young either - naively I hadn't realised it applied to DD just yet or I might of taken more notice & asked more questions at the time & again didn't predict her stressing over tests, as she loves a challenge & likes to please at School & generally sails through this sort of stuff - just seems the word SATS has triggered this :(

Got to admit I can see where it comes from with her - she's still learning, she knows that, so lacks confidence in her ability because she compares herself to adults, its come up a lot & I've tried to reassure her, as do her teachers - a few more years - when she's got the whole literacy thing under her belt I think its more than likely her confidence will grow & the tests won't matter so much - thinking back, I think I was the same myself as a kid - I can just imagine being faced with any test at her age that I would have gone to pieces - yet by 11 I had it all under my belt & I wasn't phased by the 11+ & sailed through - it makes far more sense not testing kids officially until older :(

& sleeping thank you :)

& if my friends & successful people I've known are anything to go by - your DS will probably end up a millionaire - weirdly amongst my own friends etc its the School drop outs that have done most well for themselves :)



& Thanks again everyone - thats helped a lot - I know what to do now :)

[rabbitstew]

I'm sorry, I don't understand - I thought SATs were done at year 2 and year 6??? No way are they compulsory at year 3 and even at year 2 they don't publish the marks of the papers - the tests are just used to back up teacher assessment. There is no reason whatsoever why a child in year 3 would have to sit any SATs papers.

[rabbitstew]

I would be extremely annoyed at a primary school wasting teaching time every single year to do assessments on the children. It smacks of a headteacher not trusting her staff to do accurate classroom assessments and not trusting them to be any good at passing on accurate information to the teachers in the year above. Or a school totally disinterested in the stress put upon the children. Surely they can find better means of improving and standardising the teachers' classroom assessments, rather than torturing the children with silly test papers every single year?

[elphabadefiesgravity]

Whilst I am very anti SATS due to the way that they are used children do have to get used to some form of testing.

Dd's school does not do SATS but this week is assessment week. They know they are doing tests and the results will be reported to parents and used internally by the school. I beleive that some SATS papers are being used. However it has been kept low key, there was a school concert last night for example.

Testing is a part of school life and I'm afraid your dd can't get away from it. The fact that the school is using SATS papers to help them test is neither here not there.

Saying that I think you need to speak to the school. As a child I rarely took an exam. The doctor told my parents they had to be prepared that I would not gain any qualifications due to my asthma. (I normally took the first paper then was off sick the rest of the week.) Thankfully I grew out of it before my GCSE's.

[rabbitstew]

Testing in the form of sitting down and completing a formal test paper at a particular time does not have to be part of a child's school life throughout primary school. You really do not need to start practising exam technique and how to answer questions in the way expected by the examiner at age 6 and keep reinforcing it every year for the rest of your school life - unless you want to produce a nation of people who can pass exams but can't actually do anything useful, or think for themselves in an independent and original way - SATs exams never really, after all, test independent thinking. They don't even test how much you've learnt about the topics you've done that year, they just test whether your reading, writing, comprehension and basic maths skills are OK, which the teacher ought to know the answer to already. I can't think of anything more guaranteed to turn school into a place where you have to prove you know and understand a tiny, narrow, boring aspect of everything you learn at school and discount every other experience and fact learnt as jolly but irrelevant time-filling faff in between the tests.

[SarkyLady]

Hi rockin.

I have chrohns and fwiw even relatively minor stresses can produce the symptoms you describe. But my medication counteracts this very well.

You need to speak to both your doctor and the school to get this under control.

[rockinhippy]

Thanks SarkyLady - they have tried her on medications & she's reacted badly to them - made it all worse:(

but as I say bar stress we do have it under control & I've worked out how to stop it with foods, Tumeric, massage etc - GP has her down as IBS, though her gastro specialist wasn't sure, by the time we got to see him I'd worked out how best to deal with it & last years School problems had resolved, so she was very well when she finally saw him - he & the Nutritionalist pretty much just confirmed I was doing all the right things & to carry on - he did say if it gets out of control again, that thy could take another look at the possibility of it being Chrohns, but I know from a friend with it, treatment is pretty much the same


Thanks everyone else too :)

I've had her to see the GP this morning & she has suggested seeing how the School are over it all & that see how it goes, maybe School counsellor again as would be quicker than a hospital referral & if things are still a problem for her later then maybe then looking at a mental health team referral - though she did say that she wasn't sure how much good it would do, as its CBT for IBS/anxiety & she felt that might not work with a child - but worth a try if no joy with the School

Spoke with School this morning & the teacher who answered the phone was very supportive & said she didn't blame me for wanting to opt her out of SATS for now, but I need to speak with DDs own teacher as to how to go forward with it - which I will do tomorrow

I've been gently trying to coax more info out of her as to why this year was different, when looking on the SATS website & what was said here - she did have them last year too, but done in such a way - she didn't even realise

Turns out its NOT the teacher who has mentioned SATS, but older girls in School chatting amongst themselves about there own yr6 SATS - hence why DD thinks this years is so important & is linked to O'levels (Year 6 SATS I do agree with as its no real difference from the 11+ & link to streaming for high School

What HAS happened differently in class, is that they were made to sit down & take more formal tests & red flag for DDs stomach problems as she panics given deadlines - told "you have 28 minutes to answer 28 questions" - no SATS mentioned but I think the formality of it has scared her into thinking its more important than it is - IYSWIM - she's also worried because she didn't have time to answer all 28 & missed a couple out, so thinks she'll lose marks for that - I'm sure other kids will have missed out more - but its so difficult to talk to her about it & try & reassure her, as she just clams up & looks like a Rabbit in headlights :(

So I will see how it goes tomorrow - her new Teacher is lovely & very professional & knows DD well as was also her Teacher last year, so knows how ill she can get at her worst (sent home several days a week & lost a LOT of time because of last years stress - though as I said, that was extreme & I think a lot of the kids where feeling very scared by what was going on - but DD it affects more because of her condition :(

& rabbits I'd be surprised if it is that - as far as head not trusting teaching staff, its a very well run School & the head is VERY on the ball - she knows EVERY child by name, so I doubt she's not aware of how her staff perform - besides recent ofsteds gave put them as "outstanding" in pretty much all areas, which speaks volumes for the staff too

NOT sure WHY they would need to do none compulsory SATS though - something I can hopefully find out tomorrow.....the more I see about this though, the more I just don't see why its needed to put such young kids through formal exams :(

DD seems to be feeling much better & her stomach much more settled - though i'm feeding her bland none wheat/dairy - big relief at not going to School today though, which has helped - besides she was exhausted after finally getting to sleep at gone 2am :(

lets see what tomorrow brings - fingers crossed :)

& thanks again for helping me understand it better - I don't feel so out of my depth discussing it with the School now :)

[SarkyLady]

You really need a definite diagnosis.
They should def be able to tell you if it is chrohns (which is usually very treatable with drugs) or IBS (which is likely to need dietary control).

I would push to see the gastroent again.