Are there any teachers out there who can give me some pointers please

[LublieAva]

DS2 (age 6 and in year 2) is good at maths imo. Its a long story but it has become fairly obvious that I have to tutor him at home in maths because the school can't or won't support it.

I know the statement seems contentious but please could you just ignore that bit and could someone give me some advice on how to help him?

I have a degree in maths, so I've got a fairly good grip on the various topics too. However, Ds outclasses me completely. For example, he is off school sick today and I decided to take the opportunity to teach him some maths.
His current target for the year set by his teacher two weeks ago is to learn the 5x table, so I started there but it quickly became obvious that he knows it inside out and back to front, including problem solving with division.

So i moved onto the 3x table and he seemed to have mastered it in 5 minutes. It doesn't sound likely does it? But we did one run through and that was it.. he repeated 3 times to me off by heart and then answered questions. He wanted to do the next one but I stopped him because it needs time to sink in before we move on.

So I taught him to tell the time instead. I showed him this for the first time last week and I asked him to tell me the time on the kitchen clock..10:13 he answered. I did a couple of other checks asking various awkward times as well as all the half past, quarter to's etc and he got them all right. He always pauses for a second, talks to himself and then out comes the answer.

He's the same on geometry et. The only thing he stalled at even slightly was estimating angles.

If I'd been doing these things for a few weeks, I'd think he knew them but it doesn't seem possible to know them so quickly, does it?

Sorry for the long explanation but can someone tell me how to handle this? How to make sure he really has mastered these things before we move on?

[FreudianSlimmery]

How do you mean the school won't support him? Do you mean they aren't differentiating properly? (I don't mean in the calculus sense, lol)

[redskyatnight]

My Year 2 DS (above average but not a high flyer) has done most of those things at school even if they haven't absolutely clicked. Not saying your DS isn't good at maths, but is it possible that your teaching at home is just reinforcing what he has done at school (which is why he "gets" it so quickly). If you have a mathematical type brain which potentially your DS has I think a lot of those "logical" type concepts can be grasped quite easily but probably need repetition to sink in.

I'd suggest seeing if he can apply what he knows. He may "know" the 3 times table but can he tell you how many knives, forks and spoons will be needed in total if 5 people come to dinner?

[Ingles2]

I don't understand this bit... "but it has become fairly obvious that I have to tutor him at home in maths because the school can't or won't support it. "
Why? On what occasions have you spoken to the school about maths etc?
Can you tell us what the school have said about your sons' maths abilities?
I have 2 sons, one is G+T maths, extremely able.. the other is dyscalculic so I've seen primary education in maths from all angles.

[LublieAva]

i mean that the school isn't even close to being ready to teach these things. I don't want to turn this into a rant against the school but would it be enough to just say that although these things are normal in most schools, DS's school is way behind and they just don't have the resources (or interest) in teaching new things to the children who have mastered the current work?
I know this because I have fully explored this with the school and although they will never admit it, it would be clear to anyone watching.

[LublieAva]

redskyat night - yes, i did those sort of problem solving questions forcing him to use multiplication and division and he gets it. Its what i meant when i said he knows it all back to front and inside out.

I just showed him the 9x and he seems to know this too. He tells me the teacher is currently on getting the class to understand that 7+2 gives the same answer as 2+7. he says she repeats it over and over but some children don't understand it. I know for a fact that she hasn't touched multiplication with him, other than counting in twos.

[FreudianSlimmery]

Ah I see. That must be really frustrating for both of you. Although I firmly believe parents should be involved in their DCs education, it is not ok if the parent is expected to pick up the slack. Is there another school around?

Would moving up a year or two just for maths lessons make any difference? Surely the older years must be doing slightly harder work?

[kitkat1967]

Hi Lublie, I have a son in yr and he has just started times tables in school and I think they do come after counting in twos so maybe they will do them soon. I was suprised how quickly DS learnt and understood them. We did 2,3,5,10 & 11 in one go (so to speak) and he is already competent at these - both in order and mixed up. BTW - he also told me they had done no tables in school but actually I think they had done 2s and 10s and possibly 5s.
The other stuff I would have thought he should have done at school already - mine did Time in yr R and in yr 1 and as far as know there haven't been any difficulties for any of the class.
My son is a 'literature boy' who also 'gets' Maths so I don't think he is a particularly gifted mathematician but also does not struggle.
The things you describe sound pretty standard for y2 (and yr 1) but it is odd that he doesn't think he has done them in school already.

[LublieAva]

FreudianSlimmery - unfortunately there are no places at any other local school which is rated "satisfactory" or better by Ofsted.

Ofsted apparently visited this school a few years ago and found lots of children being taught in classrooms either above or below their chronological age, so they ordered the school to put everyone back in their own class for all lessons. So now the school doesn't do this any more (otherwise it would have been a solution IMO).

To tell the truth, DH and I are trying to work out how we might afford to send our children to a private school, but in the meantime we've resolved that we'll let this school do whatever its willing to do and I'll tutor DS at home. I thought I good feel my way as its all basic skills at this age anyway and a lot of its memory, but I am not confident now that I see DS pick things up so quickly. I just can't believe that he really can be takign it in because -apart from when I asked him to guess angles e.g. 135 degrees - he just seems to get everything else in minutes.

[Iamcountingto3]

Wow, am amazed at your school, tbh. Ds is Y2, on top set at maths (at least I think so, he hasn't really figured out the tables yet!) - they learnt to tell the time last year, as well as counting in 2s, 3s and 5s - although they don't formally label them times tables. Fairly normal state school.

I assume from your world weary tone that you've already ranted at the school? Is there anyone else you could get on your side to go in and talk about stretching the more able kids. It might be worth asking what their G&T policy is around maths... (I think what you're talking about should be provided at this age anyway, but that might help focus them...)

Ito what to do next - you're a maths grad - you don't really need a tutor I don't think! I would just work with what he is interested in (ds adores minus numbers for example, and percentages, so we play with those a lot) - but focus on including the application as well as the theory of concepts - eg. use problem solving to sort out problems using different mathematical concepts. As far as I understand it, using different techniques to solve issues is a big push ito maths education at the moment.
Knowing times tables is great - but the key thing for eg is thinking about how and when to apply them.

There are loads of self completition books around too - would your ds benefit from one of those (aimed a couple of years above his real age, maybe) to work through with you?

[LublieAva]

kitkat1967 - i help in the school and I've got all his books and worksheets from last year. He really doesn't do this in school. and if you can imagine the teacher struggling to get the children to compute 7+2 then you can see why she may have her hands full.

[LublieAva]

i got their G&T policy. it doesn't exist. honestly, I have tried everything with the school apart form writing letters of complaint to the governors, the county and ofsted. (and I am not going to do that because I don't think it will help get DS an education).

[LublieAva]

Iamcountingto3 - thanks.

If I am honest DS likes maths, so its not a chore to do things for him. We practise all the time - he likes it when i set him problems like what is the total score on match attax cards for John Terry, Wayne Rooney and whoever. Or when he works out the change I am due in a shop before the assistant. So, its not genius.. just practice.

Also he has an older sibling who was learning the times tables last year and I can only think that's why he was so up the curve on the times table before I'd even shown it to him.

[kitkat1967]

Hi lublieAva,

Yes our school is strong on Maths in general. DD moved to Private last year (for yr 5) and cruised the Maths entrance test with no preparation at all - it seems they had covered a good amount of the KS2 curriculum by the end of yr 4.

The issue you may have (I had this with DS literature) is the more you do at home the more painful it will become for him in class!!!

[Iamcountingto3]

Yes, ds is like that too - "maths isn't work" he told me yesterday

[LublieAva]

kitkat1967 - i am worried about that too. He already spends his maths lessons just helping the other children. The teacher never mentions it so I am guessing that she turns a blind eye.

His friend is a really bright, sparky little boy who has become so bored that he just plays up all the time. I feel really sorry for him because the school's response is just to label him as a trouble maker.

there's no way that boy's parents can afford to move him and there's no way the school is going to give him a positive use for his energy.

[FreudianSlimmery]

I wouldn't worry about the speed of his learning - try and enjoy it! I'm sure it'll still be a while before he overtakes you :o

You could give him lots of sideways extension as well as workbooks etc. The website called nrich is great for that sort of thing. I think boys especially tend to get obsessed about learning the facts so it's important to show him that there's so much more to maths than the four operations :)

[FreudianSlimmery]

I admit I'm getting confused as there's a few similar threads around lately, but had you considered taking him out of school for a bit? Sounds like you could cater for his needs much better than any available school.

[LublieAva]

I have posted before. Mainly before half term when I was asking what G&T provision schools were legally obliged to provide (none it seems) and I did write about hoping to move to a new school in the state system as I was calling round trying to find a place, but that was back in June. I checked again last week but I didn't post about it.