Why is being 'quiet' seen as a negative thing?

[nikos]

DD is our oldest of three children and ever since preschool she has been descibed as quiet at parents evenings. She is a bookish child and at 9 she now has a reading age of 14. Over the years she has become quite confident at talking to adults and children outside of school but she still doesn't like to be the centre of attention or speak in large groups.
She moved to Middle School in September (Year 5) has made a smooth transition and loves it. But we went to our first parents evening tonight and within a couple of sentences her job share teachers had mentioned the 'quiet'word three times. And again we are always given the impression it is a negative thing.
Do any other parents get annoyed with this? It seems such a shorthand and unprobing way to describe a child. And teachers, why is this always seen as a negative thing? Surely you don't want a whole class full of extroverts?

[inkyfingers]

Basically it's not a problem. You know that. Teachers like pupils who ask questions, answer questions, talk to a partner (when asked), volunteer, have a speaking part in play, befriend new pupils. It makes their job a lot easier; easier to know what pupil knows and assess progress etc.

Job share teacher doesn't help as it will take them both longer to get to know her. Was the rest of the meeting positive about her abilities? Hope so. Maybe explain that she is gaining confidence and that small encouragements to speaking in class will build on her confidence.

It's important that she has enough confidence to tell the teachers if she needs help/doesn't understand something. That's the only thing to worry about. Your daughter sounds lovely!!

[nikos]

She is lovely and such an easy child. My main concern was that the literacy teacher (not at the meeting as they are in sets) had wondered if she was struggling because she wasn;t as vocal as the others in the class. She isn't because her scores were in the age 14 range and it's only because she doesn't like to push herself forward.

[Feenie]

Speaking and listening is one third of the literacy assessment, so the teacher will prob be concerned about her skills in this curriculum area

[cory]

The teacher might actually mean that she doesn't make much of a contribution to class discussions etc.

I have students who are very quiet. If I had a classroom full of them, I might as well cancel all the seminars at the start of term. What you want is a golden mean: pupils who will contribute when you need them to, but also know how to shut up and listen.

My ds is one of the quiet ones: I don't think his class get much of a contribution from him. Part shyness, part laziness in his case, I think.

Dd is one of the less quiet ones and she finds she ends up doing more work because some of the quiet ones just don't prepare for class discussions, so the ones that do talk are kind of pulling the whole class along.

[nikos]

You get it Vega don't you. Dd started at a new school with no qualms and has made loads of friends. So she certainly doesn't lack confidence. But she is not very vocal.
Feenie - how do you improve someones speaking skills?

[tjandpootle]

Nikos - You could be describing me as a schoolgirl there! My school reports are all full of 'works quietly and never puts her hand up although when asked she does know the answer'. I can actually remember knowing the answers but not wanting to draw attention to myself or just being happy with knowing the answer and not feeling it was necessary to share it! Even at home I was happy to sit in my room reading. It was how I was and I was happy. Thankfully my parents didn't take it as a negative thing.

I did enjoy Drama though and my parents encouraged this by sending me to drama club. Although I was and still am quite reserved, I am confident in myself and wouldn't call myself shy. I have since gone to University and have had a successful 16 years (and counting) career in marketing. I have to give presentations to rooms full of people, lead teams of people and be assertive. None of this would have been any different if I'd 'spoken up more' in class!!

[ForMashGetSmash]

I get very annoyed about it. It's a typically Western attitude...you won't find many complaints about it in Asia...I am quiet...my DD is too and I teach her that being quiet is seen as being wise in some countries, because they hear and see more than most.

[cory]

I don't necessarily think it's teachers being entrenched in ideas of what a child's character is: more that they need to get through different parts of the curriculum and speaking in class is one of them. In the same way, a teacher might flag up if a child was not very active in PE or very slow at writing: it's not about what it says about the child's inner nature, so much as that this was part of what the child is meant to achieve. I don't think it's any worse than teacher flagging up that ds' writing is slow and that he doesn't get as much done as the other children. Whether he can do it or just doesn't want to do it is immaterial in a sense: she has to go on what she sees, and both writing and speaking are part of the skills they are there to practise.

[ExcessAdrenaline]

I agree the being quiet is seen as negative but I think it's a cultural thing.

Dh is a quiet chap - he'll often observe in a social group rather than taking part directly - people will assume he has no opinion, they'll underestimate him and I pity the ones that do on a professional basis because he'll out play them every time - their weakness is their assumption that because he isn't loud and in your face they he must be stupid - people who know him well know that he's a very subtle political mover, he'll get the job done and have you singing to his tune and you won't even realise he's done it - till you're at the door on your way home.

I see his silence as a strength as do his clients - once they see how useful it is!

[ForMashGetSmash]

Yes Excess...I am very quiet but work in an industry which is typically attractive to extroverts....my quietness actually gets me noticed more.

[alicatte]

The quietness thing - hmmm. Personally I have never seen this as a negative thing in a classroom setting at all. I choose who speaks/answers questions/interacts with others anyway.

I'd be more likely to ask parents of children who are not listening because they are constantly looking for speaking opportunities (We all know adults like this too I think!) so not entirely grasping points and 'calling out' over other pupils to have a word with their children; because it is those children who are going to miss out on the lesson opportunities. It is easy to deal with in class but I genuinely feel that the louder/inattentive children need to be helped to learn how to make the most of their time in the classroom and I'd be the first to ask parents to help them to understand why they need to listen as well as speak. It is such a shame when children miss out. The same would apply to the quiet/daydreamy/inattentive ones but there are few of those in my experience.

Perhaps the teachers are concerned about the speaking and listening aspect. Maybe they think your child has a lot to contribute and would like to bring her into the classroom community for the benefit of all.

It could be a plea - rather than a criticism.

I would be proud - after all your child is currently winning in the educational stakes.

[robino]

Whenever I have taught a "quiet child" it has taken a while to figure out if they are just quiet in class or if they quiet to the point of not asking for help if they need it, which for me is a greater concern. If parents' evening is early in the year I might use it to make sure the child has strategies for asking for help if they are of the "too quiet to ask for help" variety

[nikos]

She is quiet but I just get tired that teachers use this as a word to describe her, job done. Her end of year written report was lovely last year as at least the teacher mentioned the many other qualities she has - strong determination, keen to learn, caring to others.
We were hoping, I suppose, that with the smooth transition she has made to middle school that the teachers might be more desciptive in their comments. Suppose it is early days.
Very encouraging to hear am not the only one who feels like this.

[alicatte]

I can understand that Nikos. Generally (well in my experience) teachers don't read the personal comments made by other teachers because its seen as professional to evaluate children without being prejudiced. But now you mention your experience, I was in the odd situation of having a child thank me for 'not mentioning how quiet he was' in his report last year.

Definitely something to learn from - as a teacher.

[SkippyjonJones]

All three of mine are like this. I usually get comments about it at parents evening as well. Quietly confident, self contained or shy are quite common along with just quiet.

I find it annoying as well. As you have said it is not a sign of low confidence at all.

I have many friends with loud chatty children who are constantly told to be quiet. I think very few children hit that ideal, talks when the teacher thinks it is the right time, middle road.

Try not to worry about it too much. My oldest who was a worry to me as she was "so very quiet" is now a very independent confident teenager who does extremely well at school. The histrionics of some of her louder friends is somthing I am happy not to have to deal with.

Whenever they say "quiet" repeat back "yes she is quietly confident".

[nikos]

I did think that the next time I get 'quiet' I will say 'You mean reserved'. It somehow seems a more positive take on it. Like you are in control of the quietness.

[tikkapots]

I can understand your feelings around this. My eldest is quiet and shy, especially in a school setting. He is bright, reads and comprehends very well but he does not join in as much in group convos and does not stick his hand up enough. He gets very nervous when having to read aloud in assembly, in plays etc.

He did not score very highly in the base line assessment on entering reception and his reception teacher was concerned at first. However, in Y1 he went on to be one of the best readers. So it is important that ability does not get missed due to shyness !!!

He is very loving and sincere little chap.
He will never be loud and gregarious. All of his teachers have said he is a model pupil, a lovely boy etc etc and I am proud of him.

Being quiet, shy or sensitive is NOT a bad thing at all.

TP

[puppylove18]

My child is generally quiet and shy. Tried everything to bring d's out of the shell. Lacking confidence, dosen't even like to play out after school.
Spoke to one of the mums they say their child is confident and is doing great at school.
What can I do to help my shy child?

[nikos]

Alicatte - if I ever go to a parents evening and they don't mention quiet I will be soo full of respect for the teacher as I will think they have put a lot of effort into getting to know dd.
Puppylove - try small things at a time. Playdates? So he/she is on home ground. How old is your child?

[alicatte]

Puppy - I do have some experience of this both as a teacher and as a mother, the key is 'novelty'. Do different things with your daughters, even things like going to a different park and trying a new way home.

Go out more - use the internet to find free things (mumsnet has a local search area) look together and choose new things. Also give them surprises - I took mine to sculpture parks, local museums, musical events and free art exhibitions after saying we were going to the supermarket or the dentist.

The crux of this method is that the children eventually feel that unfamiliarity could be enjoyable rather than frightening this then plays into their social interaction (obviously you still have to be like a stuck record on stranger danger and not wandering off). It worked for me and I know it has for lots of others too.

Start gently - have a chat with your daughters about what they enjoy then plan a very small (not overwhelming) surprise.

Some children are just introverted - but you know this means that their nervous system and perceptual apparatus work very well, better than average. It is a kind of advantage in a way. In that famous business personality test I once had to do (Myers-Briggs???) I discovered that it was the profile for Senior directors to be introverted and analytical (and something else too - it was a long time ago!)

[SkippyjonJones]

alicante what a brilliant post !

[nikos]

Been away all day, but thats brilliant advice from alicatte!!

[puppylove18]

Thank you alicatte and nikos for your advice. I will let you know if d's starts to gain confidence again.