St Georges Tooting vs Kingston

[designerbaby]

HI ladies,

Just realised that our new home is situated almost equidistantly from both Kingston & St Georges Hospital - we'll be moving in when I am almost 8 months pregnant (eek etc.)

I'm trying to decide which one to plump for and wondered if anyone on here had any experience of either which they'd like to share...

My preference would be a MW unit with pool - but given that my last labour was induction carnage with forceps in the operating theatre, (and there's a good chance that this baby will be even bigger that my 9lb 8oz DD) I'm aware this may not be the case for me...

That said, I'm hoping for a hospital which is less keen on interventions, and hopefully will not whisk me off for a C-section at the least excuse! I want to at least be given the opportunity to do this myself, IYSWIM, so sympathetic consultants would be a big plus.

Also post-natal care last time was horrific, so that's a factor I'll be trying to take into consideration too...

Thanks ladies, in anticipation...

db
xx

[Cokie]

Hello
I am very close to both of these hospitals too and went for St George's probably because it is slightly closer, so I can only speak for St George's. I did not have a very straight forward birth but I now a year later I am so pleased I was where I was. They are a very busy unit handling over 5000 births a year, and equiped for 3000 however went things went a little wrong I felt I was in the best hands. I think if things are straightforward and "normal" then you probably feel like the experience was fairly grim (esp the post natal ward) however this is one of the main hospitals for special care in the SE. I spent 2 days in high dependency and my LO in Special care unit and the care we got was excellent. I did want to use the Carmen suite there and I know friends that have had very positive experiences of this. The C section rate at George's is around 22% (Chelsea and Westminster is around 33% - not sure of Kingston). Good luck with the house move!

[designerbaby]

Thanks Cokie... St Georges seems ok... but no-one seems to know anything about Kingston...

x

[Josie22]

I had this option and choose St George's as Kingston seems to have had some problems with midwives up in arms about conditions there - there was a letter from the head of the maternity dept on Kingston website when I looked it up initially so obviously completely put me off. I am also moving (will be over 7 months pg so can also completely sympathsize with you too on that one - we must be bonkers!) further away from St George's but I still think that I will stay with them. Actually think the service there seems good - the midwives I have met (albeit all different of course) seem friendly and helpful. Am hoping on using the birth centre but I have to argue my case as I have very mild asthma but apparently this is a no-no - wish I hadn't of mentioned it at the booking in now but thats another thread!

I have never heard of an NHS hospital (in London at least) that has good post natal care - I am not expecting any to avoid disappointment!!!

[warthog]

i had two babies at kingston, both fine, one at night, one in the day. the night shift seemed a little short-staffed. day shift was good. they've just redecorated / added new rooms to the post-natal ward. two birthing pools. on the whole, both times were positive experiences.

can't compare to st. georges.

[andiem]

I had a terrible experience at Kingston so would choose George's
but I did used to work there in the children's icu so am biased

[MandaHugNKiss]

Hey db!

I'm pretty sure my experience of giving birth at Kingston is now irrelevant as it was just over 12 years ago... it wasn't great (and post-natally pretty dire - I was on a ward which is far from ideal (although you can now pay £100 per night for an amenity room [read privacy]) and just... didn't see a midwife for dust. Considering DS arrived in 1 hour 40minutes flat from my first pain and they gave me pethidine rather than offer me gas and air (I was young and just accepted what they offered rather than be aware of other choices)which led to him bein born not breathing, needing the antidote, and being resusitated by the pediatrician. I'd have thought they would have liked to have kept a slightly more concerned eye rather than... no eye at ALL. He also kept gagging and when I went to find a midwife to ask whether it was ok (all things considered and as DD hadn't done that at all) I was brushed off that it was 'fine' and nobody even looked at him. I suspect now, as I'm more informed about the whole process, that he was struggling/gagging as the slow compression down the birth canal helps clear the fluid from the baby's lungs as they're born. He flew out.

As I say, this was 12 years ago.

I have stayed there twice ante-natally with this pregnancy and they all seem very friendly but absolutely rushed off their feet/understaffed.

All that said, I'm booked there to have this baby. I think the next nearest to me would be Queen Charlottes and for some reason I don't fancy it. Better the devil you know? Oh, actually West Middlesex would be pretty close too (I had DD there - nearly 15 years ago - and I was born there too!) but again, I think because my most recent experience was Kingston I'm just sticking with. I've read plenty of lovely birth stories from Kingston as well as some stinkers - I think it will be pretty much the same where-ever you look.

[designerbaby]

Hey Manda!! Just wondering how I missed the fact that you're obviously going to be quite local to me when I move...?? Oh yes, probably because until last week I was in complete denial about the fact that I will officially be 'Saaarf' London as of Jan., having been resolutely 'Norf' for 14 years. It's going to take some adjustment...

Can I be extra nosey and ask roughly where you are?

Who knows, maybe we'll pass in the halls? I'll be the short, stressed-out one with the unfeasibly large bump...

Josey - I read that - am wondering if they've addressed the situation since that broke [unlikely emoticon]...

Andiem - could you bear to give a bit more detail about what was dreadful? I have some specific concerns after my last experience, see so it would be good to know exactly where they came up short.

It's a tough decision... that said, it seems like Kingston is so busy they may well not take me anyway as I'll be transferring so late in my PG... It may all be taken out of my hands and who knows where I'll end up...

db
xx

[MandaHugNKiss]

Oh, come now, it's lovely south of the river! Especially if you live right ON it, as I do (I'm a stones throw away from Race End, although I do not bother to go and stand with the masses cheering on either of Oxbridge). Wait, when I say ON it, I'm not living on a house boat, you understand? But my local pub overlooks the river

The nearest 'known' place to me would be Richmond. Or Kew.

My only real experience of Norf lahndan was working in Holloway for 15months... it's not as, um, pretty there as it is here in the leafy suburbs (not to mention the cross-london commute there and back each day nearly KILLED me). Oh, but I know you northerners have plenty of the green stuff too! Thing is, you're all smoking it...

[andiem]

db basically I was induced left unattended became hyperstimulated cue all panic baby born not breathing
4 midwives were sat at desk eating sausage and chips dh went out twice to ask them to come in they refused and when one finally came in all hell broke loose with everyone shouting etc etc
I got no pain relief ds2 nearly suffered brain damage or died and I had a third degree tear as I had to push him out so quickly as they had lost the heartbeat
it was not a controlled managed labour at all
BUT this is just my experience there I know many people who have had good experiences there and there are 2 mums from school who are midwives there and are lovely
it is entirely dependent on the staff who are on when you are delivering ime

[first1]

AHHHH. This has scared me!! I'm booked in to Kingston to have my first baby purely because its about 15mins away. Not due until May but hearing such terrible stories has not filled me with much hope! Hmm is it too late to switch!? Epsom, Queen Mary's or St Peters are all about half hour away from me.

[andiem]

first1 I had ds1 there and the care was fine
I think it is entirely down to bad luck that I had the staff on that I did when I had ds2
many mums I know have had a good experience at kingston

[PanicMode]

I had DS1 at George's and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. This was in 04 though so things may have changed. It was highly medicalised with loads of intervention - I had several changes of shift as it was a very long labour, midwives who didn't speak English, and it was like being on a prodution line - couldn't get anyone to give a straight answer and DH had to go and BEG for a consultant when after 36 hours, an epidural, 10 cms dilated, no contractions and no decisions being taken by any of the midwives, he felt that he needed someone to DO something! Post natal care - non-existent. It was horrid and I discharged myself after 6 hours, despite the horrendously long labour.

Friends giving birth at the same time were at Kingston and had a much better time.

I then had DD at Epsom 15 months later (2005)and it was brilliant - completely wonderful experience and far less traumatic, with excellent post natal care (I even drove back to the post natal at midnight ward 4 days in as she wasn't feeding and they couldn't have been more helpful)

DS2 was born at Pembury (Kent) as will DC4 be - and that was great too - but may be a bit far from Surrey

[designerbaby]

Andiem - that's dreadful... I also had induction last time and ended up with hyperstimulation - but was firtunate hat DD ended up unscathed (although passed meconium) so is not an experience I wish to repeat - so that's very pertinent to me, actually... thanks for sharing that. I hope your DS came out the other side ok?

Panic - I think the other hospitals you mention will be a bit far - especially as if I go overdue again I'm planning on plumping for expectant management, which may mean dialy monitoring - I don't want distance to be prohibitive to that - it was a factpr last time as I ended up at a hospital a long way away from where I lived... I've heard really mixed things about St. Georges though - and a close friend had a missed placental abruption while being ignored by the midwives while labouring in reception who repeatedly told her "this is labour, get used to it..."

Now, now, Manda - we're not ALL pot-heads, up Norf, you know... There are some up here who dabble in horticulure for reasons other than that of producing mind-altering substances. Although if your primary experience of my neck of the woods is the Holloway Road...

But South does have a very different feel, which I confess has become more appealing the older I've gotten. I'm kind of over 'edgy' and 'up and coming' and 'arty' and am quite read for lots of open spaces and friendly neighbours and child friendly activities... Still, I will grieve the fresh (!?!!) North London air when I head down to the tropics...

Unfortunately I do doubt we'll be labouring in neighbouring beds, you're due 2 and a bit weeks before me, and last time I was 2 weeks late... but you never know!? I am trying to will this child out a teeny bit early in the hope that she'll be marginally less enormous than DD...

Are you by any chance in the Mortlake area then? If so we were in your neck of the woods (although a little further towards Barnes) on Saturday for a birthday party... I hink, actually there are a few of us on March 2010 in the area - we really should do a meet up nearer the time...

Kingston feels ahead by a nose at the moment - despite worries about induction and monitoring... It's a difficult one though... Would really like a better post-natal experience than last time though - it was almost more traumatic than my traumatic birth!

Not bothered about postcodes/counties - DD ended up being born in Hackney, after all...

db
xx

[designerbaby]

Maybe that should be 'fragrant' rather than 'fresh' air... Perhaps I will miss the mingling aromas of pot and kebabs of an evening...

[db worries that she may, in fact, have picked up a passive habit, and will have to go through withdrawal once down south...]

db
xx

[soniaweir]

I had my DS at st george's last year and i have to say that i had a brilliant experience until the post natal care. I was in labour for a very long time, i was offered the carmen suite but wanted an epidural. only had to wait 10 mins or so for it. the staff were amazing, nice and caring. i ended up having a c section but it was not a hasty decision at all. they did everything they could to try and change the baby's position. BUT as soon as i came out of the operating theatre it all went wrong. they were so short staffed and i was more or less forgotten about. i blame them for me not being able to breastfeed and having to give it up. i was in there for 3 days after the birth and in the end self discharged at 11.30pm after lots of tears.

my main complaint is their visiting hours and how strict they are esp when it comes to partners. i gave birth at 6pm and probably got the ward around 7ish and then at 8pm my husband was told to leave and not come bck until 10am the next morning. I do believe that they are changing this rule at some point though.

Even after all that i will be going back to give birth in St Georges as the ante natal care was great and they now have a marks and spencers so i won't have to put up with NHS food!!!

[designerbaby]

That's not great to hear, Sonia - it was only the fact that DH was allowed to stay with me throughout my early labour last time which saved real complications from the hyperstimulation, I believe. He kept on and on demanding someone help me until I finally got seen by a consultant.

If anyone tries to send him away at any point before I'm good and ready this time, all hell will break loose, I can tell you...

db
xx

[MandaHugNKiss]

db - I had a brief chat with my midwife this afternoon re: induction because of my GBS status... she said they try to avoid induction at Kingston unless it's really necessary for two reasons - a) they're usually busy and b) they do not like to risk failed induction/complications from induction.

Also, read our ante-natal thread

[MandaHugNKiss]

Oooh, I just found this: www.birthchoiceuk.com/BirthChoiceUKFrame.htm?LocatorFrame.htm?Hospitals/89.htm which may be useful/intersting/scary

I'm going to read the link from that page which compares 25 different aspects of care for Kingston and other neighbouring trusts.

[designerbaby]

Manda - possibly am being a dumbasss - I can only find an area with 3 lots of statistics - for induction, C-section and instrumental deliveries... Which is interesting in and of itself and Kingston doesn't fare too badly - esp. in comparison with the Whittingon which is where I'm currently booked...

But 25 different aspects of care? Where, where where??

db
xx

[MandaHugNKiss]

Ooh, how weird - the link address doesn't seem to change whichever page I'm on and I couldn't remember how I got to the page I was taking about!

A bit of fiddling about and if you're at the page that lists induction, section and instrumental delievery then click the link top/middle that says 'hospital rating'.

From there you can see three other links within the body of the page.

[designerbaby]

Actually after a bit of rooting around found loads of stuff which have printed and will read... Bloody AWFUL site deisgn, with lots fo fantastic info if only you can find it... tsk.

Thanks Manda - right heading hope with armfuls of statistics...

db
xx

[addictedtofrazzles]

Had my DS at St. George's...am booked into Thomas's for DC2...need I say more??!!

I think it is a lottery to be honest - if you go into labour on a busy night then getting seen to can be difficult (I refused to go home the 3rd time and was subsequently left in a box room for 5 hours without one visit from a midwife, whilst screaming for pain relief...).

I can not fault the birth.

The postnatal care was poor - no one came to help with breastfeeding and DS was whisked away in the night and given formula without my consent. I also lay in blooded sheets for 12 hours before someone finally came to change them.

At least at Thomas's I might have a room with a view!!

[soniaweir]

DB - the one thing that i thought was brilliant was that as my labour went through the night the midwives got a mattress for my husband so we could both sleep. they were so amazingly kind to both of us, it's just a shame about the post natal care but i think it's the same in every hospital. The labour midwives (whose shifts had finished before i was finished!) also came up to see me in the ward to see what i had. That's something that i won't forget.

sx

[littleomar]

I had my first at Kingston three years ago and due there again in Feb. Midwives (three shifts) were great. Labour went on for ages but I didn't come under any pressure to have interventions I didn't want (I've heard anecdotally that the C section rate there is partly due to the age of women giving birth - mothers tend to be late 30 somethings).

Postnatal care was mixed - clean room to myself, some nice people, but a horrible woman who declared DS was "dehydrated" when he was about 4 hours old and insisted on giving him formula (which he promptly threw up). On the other hand there was also a breastfeeding counsellor who spent proper time helping me get started.

[Horton]

I had my first (and only, so far) at Kingston, too, just over three years ago. I had a fairly quick labour and no interventions that I hadn't specifically asked for (an episiotomy when the pushing stage took ages and I was knackered). The midwife who delivered my baby was a lovely lovely woman (Karen, can't remember surname). She came to my bed when she went off shift to thank me for a lovely birth experience. How nice is that?

The one criticism I had was that I rang them fairly regularly throughout the day when I was in labour to say that I would be in later, then went a tiny bit loopy, didn't ring and ran to the car and yelled at DH to drive me, and when I got there they said I should go to the consultant ward rather than the midwife bit and I had to make a fuss in order to be let into the midwife led unit. But the fuss was small (I yelled 'I don't want an epidural' a couple of times) and from what I hear expecting women in labour to be rational is not confined to Kingston!

Overall, I had a great birth experience. The midwife who was with me in the midwife led unit was kind to me, read my birth plan properly and followed it to the letter. They had birth balls available (even in the consultant bit), the lights were low which was surprisingly comforting, and in the midwife bit there is a pool in every delivery room. I didn't get to use it as DD arrived before it was full, unfortunately.

After the birth I was in a room with only one other mother. Midwives were available, kind, helpful. I didn't have problems breastfeeding so don't know about the quality of support on offer in that area.

The room I was in was big and the bathroom was spotlessly clean. There was a bath and a shower and there was plenty of space for me to take my baby in there with me.
This was three years ago so not totally current but I would happily have another baby there tomorrow (if only I was a bit better at getting pregnant)!

Oh yes, and I was nearly 38 when I gave birth to DD and had the best first labour/birth experience of anyone I know. Being old is not necessarily an indicator for having a shitty time of it.