Swine flu vacc... is it really necessary this year?

[saucetastic]

I've just been offered the H1N1 vaccination by my local surgery because I'm pregnant. I wasn't expecting it to be offered this year as it doesn't seem to have hit the media lately.
My immediate thought was that there was a huge over reaction to the pandemic last year, and I declined.
But now I'm concerned that I haven't done enough research. I remember that there was a real risk for pregnant women.
Is H1N1 expected to re emerge? Or has it just not been reported?
I'm curious how other people have responded to this phone call, or how you would react if you were in this situation?

[LadySanders]

i wouldn't have it in a million years, especially not when pregnant. i was offered it last year when pregnant with dd. i know very few people who had swine flu, the risks of it were clearly hugely exaggerated, and the vaccine had unpleasant side effects. but then i'm generally extremely vaccine sceptic.

[frankenfanny]

I have booked to have mine done this week. I couldn't find any reason not to, asked medical types and looked online- no side effects other than sore arm/mild flu reported.

I wouldn't bother except I am going to be heavily pg in flu season and in a high risk group.

[midnightexpress]

Friend who is an immunologist told me that if you've already had one last year (and I suspect you probably didn't, if you weren't in a high risk group then) that it would give adequate protection for this year too. She was talking about the DCs, but I guess this is also true for adults (disclaimer: I know jack about it myself)

[lainey1981]

I've been debating whether or not to have this, but think I will as have been advised by several people who were pregnant last year that catching flu (any type) in your last trimester can affect baby's frontal lobe development (which deals with thought and voluntary behaviour such as speech, walking).
Not sure how true it is as haven't researched much myself, but plan to speak to DR/midwie about it before I take the plunge

[saucetastic]

Thanks for the responses.

The latest H1N1 info on Beeb website from July stated that there was a surplus of more than 30 million vaccinations. So that would explain wanting to get rid of any stockpile.

I've heard contradictory advice about the side effects also.

I'm googling like crazy trying to find the announcement from science bod saying it had run its course, because that would put my mind at ease. If it's in a research paper, it may be harder to find.

I've got another midwife appointment next week, so I'll probably do that also lainey1981. Although I'm concerned that they will be expected to toe party line in order to get rid of the excess vaccines.

[ILoveDonaldDraper]

I am not vaccine sceptic like the poster above, instead I recognise that vaccines save hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of lives worldwide every year, but I declined the swine flu jab whilst pregnant.
If you have any complicating factors such as being asthmatic I would suggest that you had it, but even then I would be reluctant to have it in the first trimester. My siblings who are both doctors and Dad who is a medical researcher specialising in immunology all reckoned that there is insufficient evidence to be sure that the swine flu jab is safe in pregnancy because it hasn't been around long enough for proper research to be done. I am now 34 weeks and still haven't had it.
If you are still on the fence - a compromise would be be not to have it now, but to have it in a few months as autumn is drawing in, there are more germs around, and when your pregnancy is more advanced and your fetus is more robust.

[lucybrad]

i think they'd find it easier to chuck the vaccine out rather than trying to get rid of it by vaccinating people!


seriously though, we live in a small place and a young pregnnt girl died of it last year hee, so i will be having it to be on the safe side.

[huffpuff75]

I know if I am offered it I will have it. I had it last year along with the normal flu vaccine (when I wasn't pg) because I am asthmatic and high risk.

I only know one person to have it last year - but that was my DH. He's never, ever sick and was so ill with it, it was quite scary. I know that if I had had it with my asthma it would have been really serious.

Bearing in mind that your system is under a lot of extra pressure while PG, avoiding additional risk seems sensible to me.

[AllSheepareWhite]

The question should be is it really necessary at all? Check out the figures more people die from seasonal flu every year than died from swine flu see here. Pandemrix the vaccine most commonly given on the NHS contains thimerosal which contains mercury one of the most toxic elements especially to developing brains and small concentrations will affect a foetus or a baby far more than an adult www.medicines.org.uk/EMC/medicine/22352/SPC/Pandemrix+suspension+and+emulsion+for+emulsion+for+injection/#UNDESIRABLE_EFFECTS. It has not been adequately tested:

'Pandemrix has been administered to women in each trimester of pregnancy. Information on outcomes from estimated more than 200,000 women who have been vaccinated during pregnancy is currently limited. There was no evidence of an increased risk of adverse outcomes in over 100 pregnancies that were followed in a prospective clinical study.'

reference

I do not call one clinical trial of only 100 pregnant women a safe enough bet.

[Tangle]

I was heavily pregnant last winter and declined the SF vaccine. I started showing symptoms just after Christmas and was hospitalised a few days later as I'd had D&V and was getting dehydrated. When we got there we discovered our baby had died - we declined an autopsy, as maternal blood pressure of 60/30 suggested "lack of oxygen" would be the answer, if there was an answer at all.

Our MW knew of 5 other women who'd been pregnant and had SF confirmed - all of whom had been absolutely fine. And one other lady who'd caught a different variant of flu and had also lost her baby.

There is and always will be limited information on the safety of new medicines for pregnant women and their babies - its unethical to include pregnant women in medical testing. In consequence, the only results we have tend to be from women that have a forced choice due to other circumstances (such as asthma increasing the risk of not having the vaccine). In an ideal world we'd have data on plenty of pregnancies and be able to do an analysis on any impact identified after 1, 5, 10, 20 years - but that will never be possible for a disease that is new.

I do not believe we have an accurate picture of how widespread the SF outbreak was last winter, as the symptoms I showed did not match those publicised at the time even though I was swabbed and tested +ve. I do think that SF affected a disproportionately large number of young adults when compared to other flu variants - but without having accurate data on the number of SF cases that will be impossible to establish. I do believe that, in general, SF turned out to be a lot milder than was feared - possibly adding to the lack of official diagnosis and further confusing the actual data, and certainly adding weight to the argument that it was never a problem and vaccination was a complete waste of time.

This page from the NHS has been updated in the last couple of weeks. From what I can gather;

• SF was a pandemic (as it was a virus that spread around the globe), although the WHO have announced it to be over
  
• SF was much milder than feared
  
• all pregnant women are still recommended to have the SF vaccine, either as a SF vaccine or as 2010/2011 seasonal flu vaccine (which will include H1N1)
  

If you want to try and make a reasoned decision you have to try and do a risk/consequence assessment of how likely you think you are to catch SF and have complications vs. how likely your baby is to suffer side effects from the vaccine, whilst factoring in the knowledge that the vaccine isn't 100% effective (ie even if you have it you may still catch SF and develop complications). From what I can gather there is insufficient evidence to quantify either set of risks so it really is impossible to make an informed decision. Even given what happened I still can't say, hand on heart, that if I could do it all again, I'd have the jab.

At the end of the day, all you can do is make the decision that you feel most comfortable with and then try not to revisit it.

[nunnie]

I rang my surgery as I will be heavily pregnant in flu season and really was hoping to have this vaccine. I was informed that my practice no longer offer it and had returned their supply. So I am hoping now the season is almost near that they might re-offer or offer an alternative for pregnant women that wish to have it.


So sorry for your Tangle.

[AxisofEvil]

I rang my surgery a few weeks ago to ask about the vaccine and was told they are no longer doing it and don't have any supplies.

Tangle I'm very sorry to hear your story - thank you for sharing it as I think people can focus on what they perceive as risks of the vaccine without considering how serious the illness can be.

[saucetastic]

Thank you all for responding. So many good points raised here.

Tangle, I am very sorry for your loss.
Thanks for your research and the link. I've been reading the comments from that page also. You're right, even after researching further, it seems impossible to make an informed decision without sufficient evidence on either side. Eventually, it will have to be an instinctual decision.

IloveDonaldDraper (so do I), I am sceptical about some (not all)vaccines and how they are administered, especially if they haven't had extensive trials. I'm due in December, and your suggestion of waiting out the autumn makes sense.

You're most probably right Lucybrad about chucking them out. I'm glad you've come to your decision.

Huffpuff, after witnessing your dh, and being in a high risk group, it does seem sensible to have the jab. Though I wish I'd been able to have it before becoming pregnant, so i wouldn't have to make a decision to risk pumping manmade chemicals into my foetus.

Fantastic link, AllSheepareWhite; thank you. I will be using this at my next midwife appointment. Before reading this I had no idea that there had been only 100 pregnancies followed in the study. I understand the ethical debate regarding this, but it makes me nervous.

Thanks nunnie and AxisofEvil, it's good to know that not all surgeries are following the same procedure this year. And with the WHO declaring it over, (though suggesting continued flu vaccination of high risk groups) it makes coming to a conclusion even more confusing!

[saucetastic]

Finland may halt H1N1 vaccinations due to possible link to narcolepsy in young people.

here

Another reason to be cautious.