Scrap Benefits and pay every adult, working, non working or retired, an unconditional basic income of £15,000 a year? Discuss

[CorruptBstard]

Hi

Ok Mumsnet, what do you think of this?

Pay every adult in the uk £15,000 a year, with no conditions attached, so that every adult is free to use their time to do stuff, just for the love of it.

This basic income would cover basic needs for food and shelter, if people wanted to earn more money they could go and work for someone else or start a business of their own

This would abolish poverty in one fell swoop.

Wheres the money coming from to pay for it?

well apart from scrapping all "state benefits", we could also scrap income tax and fund it all by taxing money every time its spent.

ie Government gives me £5. I pass that £5 round a group of 10 friends. By the time the £5 comes back to me, it has been "spent" 10 times. Creating a turnover of £50. If the government taxes that spending at 20%, it raises £10 in tax. Making a profit of £5.


Thoughts?

If you recieved £15,000 a year unconditionally, what would you do just for the love of it?

[redlac]

nice advert for your own blog

[CorruptBstard]

fair point. i am really interested in peoples opinions though. maybe i should delete this post and post again without the link?

[LadySybildeChocolate]

Wasn't this the aim of the communist governments? It didn't work, greed and corruption led to its downfall.

[CorruptBstard]

no, as far as i understand communism is about everyone getting the same and no more. with the basic income people are free to earn as much extra as they want. in fact if you give everyone a basic income to cover their basic needs, then you can let a true free market economy do the rest. so its the opposite of communism.

[LadySybildeChocolate]

It's human nature to want more. Most people will never be happy with £15k, so will earn more/obtain more via different means. This would, in itself, create an imbalance as some sectors of society will be far better off than others. As the balance falls in favour of those who earn more, those who earn 15K will become resentful and demoralised.

[tiredemma]

I actually enjoy working, so apart from not being able to afford to live on 15k pa, I would also be bored shitless.

[mollymole]

what a load of bollocks !!

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I thought Frank Field had been talking about this one for quite some time. A 'National Wage' or something like that? Those that have jobs and for whom the £15k is effectively spare would be expected to give to others less fortunate than themselves. Those that piss their £15k up the proverbial wall would have to ask others to help them out rather than the state. It all hinges, of course, on personal responsibility and a degree of public-spiritedness that is currently at odds with a society where charitable giving is comparatively rare. I'd also be concerned that it would promote idleness... one of Beveridge's five giants on the road of reconstruction.

What would I do with an extra £15k a year?.... To paraphrase George Best it'd go on fast cars and booze. The rest I'd just fritter away.

[CorruptBstard]

but the idea is that anyone could go out and earn more to suppliment their £15,000. so @tiredema you could go out and work, and therefore nobody is tied to just having £15k so doesnt have to become resentful or demoralised

question for you tiredemma, if i gave you £15k a year unconditionally, what work would you do just for the love of it?

[wigglybeezer]

I thought this was Green party policy for a while.

[CorruptBstard]

why bollocks moley?

[CorruptBstard]

it is green party policy

[mollymole]

why should anyone be given money for not working if they are able to work

[akaemmafrost]

Hmm I think my dog could come up with a better idea than this, hold on I'll ask him......

[CorruptBstard]

idleness?

1. would you work? tiredemma has already said yes
   
2. it covers basic needs, so fast cars are out, not much left after rent and food, so for fast cars and booze, youd have to suppliment your income by finding paid work
   
3. define work?

[Ryoko]

Well comrade under the red flag everyone is equal (tho some more then others) and paid by the state as well as given a basic ration, there is no unemployment as such as all are employed by the state.

Pretty much the same thing you are implying.

Besides your idea is stupid based on the following.
Greed is rampant in this country, rent prices, utilities prices will rise to take into account the massive increase in handouts given by the government, equally wages will drop like stone if the state hands everyone 15k a year. As the current system is run to benefit business rather then the individual, plenty of people right now who work full-time and get HB and other benefits to top them up so they can actually afford to live.

This country is all ready half communist subsidising the working class with there own money, in a never ending cycle of taxation and handouts just to please big business so they can pay as little as possible and trouser the rest for use in their off shore tax haven, what you propose will just make the whole thing worse.

[EmilieFloge]

I'm rubbish on politics but I have been knocking this one around in my head for a few weeks now...I thought it was my idea

I love it...I would be happy on that, knowing I was safe from poverty, and could work without the chaos you get when you try and work on benefits.

There are jobs I would love to do but can't afford to atm.
Bring it on.

I do wonder how it would affect prices though...I mean if things went up a lot, (not sure why they would) then those on the basic thing would maybe struggle to compete with those who were earning more...it could be cyclical.

[doggiemumma]

So thats £15, EACH adult in the house? So thts £30K for us then? Yeah, thanks - i'll take it. What would i do for the love of it, what i do now, i work in science for nothing because i can't get a paid job. Alot of people who received £30K for doing fuck all would do just that! My DP doesn't earn anywhere near £30k we would be living in the lap of luxury with that - and yes, we have a mortgage (quite a big one that we struggle to pay actually).

If you upped to tax on spending you would strangle the economy, and i know nuthing about economics and its pretty obvious from where i am sitting

[doggiemumma]

£15K obviously, not just £15, but no i dont like it, why should people receive this amount of money to do nothing? also it would devalue money so they may as well get £1.50 for all it will be worth

[CorruptBstard]

appreciate the feedback, but rather hear the constructive critisism akaemmafrost

mollymole, depends how you define work? but also an economy only works when people spend money, if people dont spend money, the whole thing breaks down. givin people money to spend creates demand for things, work is then created to make the things to fill that demand. so giving people "free money" creates work, and is therefore valuable in itself, if people want more than a basic living, then they would go out and work, so its hardly giving people money for nothing

[TodaysAGoodDay]

Yes please, I'd be bloody rich! I work and I'm on less than 10K. Nice idea OP

[CorruptBstard]

ryoko

the £15k is index linked to inflation.

[CorruptBstard]

LOL 20 posts before the first bit of positive feedback. thank you todaysagoodday, youre a star. great name too ;-)

[CorruptBstard]

oops sorry emilliefloge the replies coming so thick and fast i didnt see your positive feedback. great thats 2 people, and the ideas been around for quite a while. its actually green party policy

[rimmerfleadick]

So how is this funded by scrapping income ta, really.
So are you saying we would have 40% VAT.

How would a goverment fund public spending if there is a shortfall in your spend tax?. How whould such a system effect the value of the pound money markets?.

Do people in full time education get this money too.
What about people who allready get benefits greater than £15k